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When is a pilot ready for an RV?

B

bryan12

I have just over 100 hours TT. Almost all in 172s but a couple hours right seat in rv 6. I feel quite bored and extremely comfortable in a 172. My question to the masses out there is, with transition training is it acceptable to begin flying a RV-?A at this point? At the end of the day it comes down to the pilots personal capabilities but whats standard?
 
Standard will vary so much by person that it's almost impossible to give numbers. All you can do is look at what others have done, and decide whether you want to try.

I have just over 300 hours, and just purchased my first flyng RV. Prior to that i've got about 125 hours in Cessna trikes, and 175 hours in various tailwheels. Is that much tailwheel time necessary? I don't think so. Does it help? Probably.

There is a pilot on my home field learning to fly in a -6A. Another was a low-time (3-400 hour) Cessna/Piper pilot who completed his RV-9A a few years ago. He's now got his FAST ticket and flies formation regularly. I'm going for my FAST ticket this year.

If you're looking at -A models, you could hop right in one with only a few hours of transition training. It really won't be that hard. For a tailwheel model, get some tailwheel time and then some transition training in a tailwheel RV. Probably won't take much longer.
 
Not a problem with training

I had 90 hours when I started building my -7 and bought a Pacer and took training to get a tailwheel endorsement. Then did 2 hours dual in a -6 prior to the first flight at which point I had about 160 hours. The RV is a dream to fly by comparison to the Pacer (which is still a good airplane). With the right training and transition you should be fine.
I think you will find quite a few people on VAF who were in a similar situation.
 
As soon as a pilot can afford a RV he is ready.:) It is a fantastic plane and wows both fresh and and matured pilots alike.
I couldnt imagine life with any other plane, other than a rocket of course.
Just choose your type depending on your skills or needs. ie tailwheel ,7 or 9? etc etc.
 
thanks

probably a 6A. At the moment I dont have the desire to become a real pilot and get my tailwheel endorsement. looking for a solid 6A, or another side by side, with a good panel that can hopefully be equipped IFR one day. Autopilot would be awesome.
Its hard to justify getting a cherokee 180 or something, burn more gas going slower, deal with older equipment. at even 6 hours a month the fuel saving- especially when the fuel goes back up, will be well worth the extra money upfront.
 
You are ready whenever you can afford it. Much can be overcome with the proper attitude and good training. Don't skimp on either and you'll be just fine.

p.s. Watch out for being comfortable and bored in any airplane. Inevitably, it arises with familiarity, but leads to inattention or worse. Thar be dragons.
 
I have just over 100 hours TT. Almost all in 172s but a couple hours right seat in rv 6. I feel quite bored and extremely comfortable in a 172. My question to the masses out there is, with transition training is it acceptable to begin flying a RV-?A at this point? At the end of the day it comes down to the pilots personal capabilities but whats standard?

You are ready. Get with a good RV check-out pilot and you will never look back.
 
Not quite!

As soon as a pilot can afford a RV he is ready .

...This is not true guys...sorry. I've had close to 80 transition training students through here in my -6A...many wealthy ones as well, and many/most of them were not ready when they arrived.

They are ready when they can demonstrate all the PPL maneuvers, simulated forced landings, crosswind landings, go-arounds and short and soft field takeoffs and landings, with or without flaps. Most often they have to learn to use a bunch more right rudder than they've ever used before and it surprises most of them. Precision airspeed control has to be mastered as well and I've told them many times that their skills need to be ratcheted up several notches to safely fly these little hotrods, compared to the spam cans they left behind.

Best,
 
I've known 100 hour pilots that were ready to fly anything with wings, and 1,000 hour pilots who should never have been allowed to leave the ground. Trying to answer your question on the internet is essentially impossible, since we don't know which category you fit in. However, you are MORE than ready to go get some RV transition training and let an RV-competent instructor evaluate your skills and tell you that you are or are not ready....and if he/she doesn't think you're ready, then training time is great anyway! ;)

Paul
 
I've known 100 hour pilots that were ready to fly anything with wings, and 1,000 hour pilots who should never have been allowed to leave the ground. Trying to answer your question on the internet is essentially impossible, since we don't know which category you fit in. However, you are MORE than ready to go get some RV transition training and let an RV-competent instructor evaluate your skills and tell you that you are or are not ready....and if he/she doesn't think you're ready, then training time is great anyway! ;)

Paul

Very well said.

In my case, I had 138 hrs when I started flying my -8, almost ALL 172 time, with a tail wheel transition in a Stinson 108-3.

Cheers
 
hmmm....

Well... I'd say, once you spend a lot of time in slowflight and understand the reverse command region (it really is important and not a joking suggestion) and feel really comfortable with that, make sure you have all your emergency manuevers down pat then do transition training. Once your transition trainer says your ready... you are then ready..

Best
Brian Wallis
 
Balance, grasshopper

There are many pilots who would never ask your question, and they scare me. Just by asking you show the desire to do things right. But also by asking you show that you aren't quite there yet. I would bet that you will know after a certain amount of transition training. Don't do anything you aren't completely comfortable with and you will probably be all right. Just don't get too comfortable, as you may have a tendency to do, by your statement about being bored in a 172. The 172 is a lot like a Cub, it just barely goes fast enough to kill you.

Bob Kelly
 
I'm still learning after ~120 Hours

I transitioned from 172's to the 6A at around 220 hours. I now have 120 in the 6A and I am still learning, but I feel safe. I am no great shakes as a pilot either; average or worse stick and rudder skills, but I strive to have a safe attitude. I stay in my comfort zone. I have yet to roll or loop the plane myself.

The RV is most different with it's high induced drag at lower speeds, you literally have give it power AND push the nose down to get it out of the bucket. I don't usually fly it there unless I am doing short field practice, doesn't seem as safe, flying slow and nose high, held up by the prop. I do go out at altitude and practice slow flight to train the brain on that area of reversed command. Typical short final for me is 80 knots, but I have flown it as 60.

One thing I still deal with is the speed at which I approach the airport and at what point do I slow down... The other day I popped over the mountains at 11K and it is only 15 miles to the the airport at 4500 feet. I must be getting better because the controller slipped me in front of an dash on long final.

Overhead breaks coming soon!

Hans
 
Rod Machado, famous aviation humorist with all the ratings, says, "You can't fly a 200 mph airplane with a 100 mph brain."
Things happen quite a bit sooner in an RV. That's probably the biggest hurdle a low time pilot has to get over.
 
When Are You Ready?

Once again, Great insight and advice form Paul! Personally, I only had 350 Hrs or so when I first sat in an RV (6). I can honestly say it took me 8-10 hours of transition training before I felt as though I was actually in control and flying the airplane, rather than just hanging on for the ride!

My advise............ Transition Training. You'll know when your ready!
 
Training

When I got my Bonanza, I had a little over 100 hours TT. I hired an instructor certified by the Bonanza Pilot Proficiency Program to train me how to fly it. 10-15 hours later, I had complex and high performance endorsements, knew how to fly the airplane, and had gained the confidence that I could handle it. It was the best money I ever spent.

I feel sure that the RV will be the same way. Get the training and you'll be fine. Just remember that it's a big jump to go from a 172 to a fast moving airplane, and will require you to think ahead -- way ahead.
 
With the proper training, you might be ready for an RV...non of us can tell that from a post on the Internet. Go get some transition training with a good instructor to see if you are ready.

One thing tha concerns me is the fact that you state that you are bored in a 172.... If you are, try some advanced training like working on the commercial manuvers or get started on your Instrument Rating.

That should cure you of the boredom.



I have just over 100 hours TT. Almost all in 172s but a couple hours right seat in rv 6. I feel quite bored and extremely comfortable in a 172. My question to the masses out there is, with transition training is it acceptable to begin flying a RV-?A at this point? At the end of the day it comes down to the pilots personal capabilities but whats standard?
 
You Guys are Scaring me..........

as usual "I probably don't know enough to know I don't Know".

never flown anything but an RV6, only have about 70 hours. It feels good right now, but always on my toes. I wish I had about 100 hours in a 172, but it just didn't happen that way. Check ride is coming. Going to be 61 tomorrow, really wanted to get my license while I was still 60 and young.
 
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Once again, Great insight and advice form Paul! Personally, I only had 350 Hrs or so when I first sat in an RV (6). I can honestly say it took me 8-10 hours of transition training before I felt as though I was actually in control and flying the airplane, rather than just hanging on for the ride!

My advise............ Transition Training. You'll know when your ready!

Like Tommy, I also around 350 hours TT when I made my first flight but...

Those 350 hours where in over 50 different makes and models. (Everything from a J3 to a friend's T6 to 150's to another friend's T210 and my instructor's personal Piper Lance to a Stearman, Greatlakes, and more.) Thus for me, I had no problem adapting to a different airplane and the guy who did my transition was ready to let me go at two hours but I slogged it out in his RV-6 for a total of three hours before I made my first flight.

If I had done all 350 of those hours in a 150, I doubt I would have been ready in such a short amount of time.

Beg, borrow, and steal some stick time in any and every plane you can, it will really make a difference. You will know when you are ready.
 
as usual "I probably don't know enough to know I don't Know".

never flown anything but an RV6, only have about 70 hours. It feels good right now, but always on my toes. I wish I had about 100 hours in a 172, but it just didn't happen that way. Check ride is coming. Going to be 61 tomorrow, really wanted to get my license while I was still 60 and young.

Right now, the only thing that a 172 would do is scare the s**t out of you.. :eek:
 
Everyone is different. I had <100 in 152 and 172 over about a 10 year time frame. I then beginning twin training in a cessna 310. It took me alot of hours but have my twin rating and instrument training done between jan and november in the same year.
With the cost of gas cruch, I looked at the RV, got checked out with an instructor for about an hour of flight time. Took my wife for a ride then bought one. 150 hrs later, still loving it!!
 
Your comment about being bored in a 172 sets off an alarm

An RV is a very simple airplane to fly. Landing needs some extra care - especially the "A" models. If you are bored in a 172 after around 100 hours you will be bored in an RV after 25 more hours. Airplanes are for travel in my opinion and if you are not traveling across the country the "magic" of flight quickly becomes a boring exercise sort of like driving around the block where you live once you get a drivers license. In today's GPS navigation world the sensitivity to the lay of the land and correlation between a sectional and what you see from the cockpit may be dead. That is sad. A hot motorcycle might be more to your liking in the long run. An RV is not going to fill your needs for long.

Bob Axsom
 
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Airplanes are for travel in my opinion and if you are not traveling across the country the "magic" of flight quickly becomes a boring exercise sort of like driving around the block where you live once you get a drivers license.

Now you tell me...looks like I'll have to sell the Pitts now. :D Everyone's "magic" is different, just make sure you buy the airplane that creates it for you. Airports are littered with rarely-flown airplanes because (I believe) their owners rationalized having their particular airplane for some purpose other than pure personal (yes, selfish) enjoyment. But I don't think an RV could ever fit in this category...they're too versatile and open up possibilities (i.e. formation, acro) far beyond "point A to B" flying. BTW, only an Unlimited World Aerobatic Champion has the right to be bored with aerobatics. :D If you quickly get bored in an RV, you should re-evaluate exactly why you are a pilot.
 
CHUCK: 61? You're just a mere lad.

Check ride is coming. Going to be 61 tomorrow, really wanted to get my license while I was still 60 and young.

CHUCK: 61? You're just a mere lad. My build partner Chet got his license at 70 a year ago, and we're almost done with his 6A.

I remember 61, twas a good year. Hopefully, we'll have many more.

Chet's plane will be named ON BORROWED TIME because that's exactly where we are but to answer the question, we plan to take as much time as necessary to NEVER get behind the 6. Things happen very quickly at 160kts.
 
If you quickly get bored in an RV, you should re-evaluate exactly why you are a pilot.
Amen.

I don't understand how people can think you'd get bored in an RV. I'm happy just doing circuits, and searching for that elusive "perfect" landing... :)
 
The point of boredom depends on the individual

The point of boredom depends on the individual not their skill level. If you get bored flying a Cessna 172 after only 100 hours of experience then flying an RV will be boring for that person as well in a short period of time. Some people get excited playing golf - go figure.

Bob Axsom
 
poor choice of words

I guess the word "boring" was a bad choice. Its just after flying an rv and sitting around thinking about all the great trips it makes practical its hard to get quite as excited to burn 9GPH at 100 kts and struggle to get altitude all summer.
Ever be tired of flying though? absolutely not. not sure how thats possible, if your passion is the flying, not the capabilities or lifestyle it makes. I think flying is in your blood.
 
If you are bored in a 172 after around 100 hours you will be bored in an RV after 25 more hours.

I don't think I agree with this. I started-out flying Gliders and LOVED this... I was one of the odd people that LOVED flying behind the towplane... it was an intense stick-and-rudder exercise and a lot of fun. Then when I was 17 I did about 40 hours in a C152, and thought this was OK, but actually enjoyed the gliding more. More recently I flew a Katana for a couple of years and loved it. Just really fun to fly, great visibility and it felt small, light and fun. Then I went to a 172 for about a year and really did not enjoy it much at all. It just felt more like driving a truck and the sheer joy of stick-and-rudder was gone. Now I'm back to flying a Grob 115C and I love flying again. It just feels better, even for those short flights around the block.

I'm not trying to bash cessna... they are icons of the industry and the airplanes are/were wonderful trainers. They just don't feel nice, or fun, to me.

The three rides I had in RVs (-8, -9A and -7A)... well, I obviously loved every minute of them.
 
I was one of the odd people that LOVED flying behind the towplane... it was an intense stick-and-rudder exercise and a lot of fun. Then when I was 17 I did about 40 hours in a C152, and thought this was OK, but actually enjoyed the gliding more. More recently I flew a Katana for a couple of years and loved it. Just really fun to fly, great visibility and it felt small, light and fun. Then I went to a 172 for about a year and really did not enjoy it much at all. It just felt more like driving a truck and the sheer joy of stick-and-rudder was gone.
Gotta agree with you there. Flying on tow demands total focus but is rewarding. It's formation flying with dissimilar aircraft and a big penalty if you can't keep the distance just right (PT3, anyone?).

The DA20 Katana is very much derived from the HK36 motorglider and has the same good visibility and handling qualities. It's the most fun "regular" production aircraft I've flown (Super-D and the like aside). Going from that to a 172 is a BIG step backward in the fun department.

TODR
 
Rv-s Vs others

I hesitate to weigh in on this because there are some very experienced pilots out there that are much better qualified to answer your question than I am. I had aboutt 200 hours in a bunch of different airplanes prior to transitioning to the RV's, but most was in Cessnas. I also had time in some taildraggers (Champ, Citabria, Decathlon, T-6), and Grumman Tiger which feels like a tamed down RV. There are a number of issues to consider:

  1. In the RV 3,4,6,7,8 things can happen MUCH quicker than they do int he Cessna. Think about dealing with weather you are flying into at 200 mph instead of 110. You have to make good judgements on an expidited basis compared to a 172.
  2. If you are interested in aerobatics, it is easy to do in RV's, but see number 1 above. It is easy to overspeed on a downline, and easy to over g by pulling a little too hard on the wing removal lever.
  3. The change in performance from being lightly loaded to gross weight is amazing, mostly because of how small the RV's are. Sink rates can get really high in a slowed down RV that is at or near gross weight, so your really need to watch your energy (airspeed) whan landing. The cessna is much more foregiving.
This all being said, if you have the right attitude and good judgement, the RV's, if built to plans, do not have any bad flying characteristics like nasty stalls, and are "easy" to fly. Get some good instruction, and go for it. Listen to the instructors advice about what skills you need to develop to make the transition.
 
DA20s are a good launching pad to RVs

The DA20 Katana is very much derived from the HK36 motorglider and has the same good visibility and handling qualities. It's the most fun "regular" production aircraft I've flown (Super-D and the like aside). Going from that to a 172 is a BIG step backward in the fun department.

TODR

I completely agree. I think the Diamond DA-20 is a great aircraft to train in. I used it for my PPL training and felt it prepared me well for the 9a I fly now. My 3 hr transition training was completed without any struggles or surprises when I had approx 95hr TT. It was mostly getting familiar with the systems stuff.

I whole heartedly recommend the DA-20 for initial training of any future RV pilots. Center stick, light stick forces, great visibility and fun. Almost as quick and efficient as a fixed pitch 9 but can't be certified for IMC use. The DA20 C1/Eclipse has the newer engine and was a joy to fly. Not quite as aggressive as the RV6/7, but very close to a 9. Renting a Cessna was a definite step back...

Like others stated, I think you're ready when a good instructor evals your skills and says so. But training in a more similar AC can certainly help!
 
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