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  #21  
Old 01-24-2018, 07:30 PM
rdrcrmatt rdrcrmatt is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woxofswa View Post
Do you have the old single muffler system or the newer dual Vetterman system?

It goes without saying that the muffler shroud should wrap tightly around the edges of the inner can forming an open airspace chamber for the heat to transfer. If somebody errantly packed asbestos type material in there like an old glass pak ATV muffler it could cause your problem. You can easily inspect by removing the two band straps and lifting the outer shroud off. Ive heard of some people welding little fins on the main can to transfer more heat but Im telling you, those Vetterman muff cuffs put out massive btus when properly operated. Make sure when you put the shroud back on that the two sides seal airtight.
It is the dual system.

I'll take it apart tomorrow night and get pictures.
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  #22  
Old 01-24-2018, 09:13 PM
Ralph Inkster Ralph Inkster is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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Curious what power settings you use when flying. If low power settings or running lean you might not be producing enough heat in the exh pipes. What is your EGT temps during these conditions.
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  #23  
Old 01-24-2018, 09:51 PM
rdrcrmatt rdrcrmatt is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Milwaukee, WI
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Originally Posted by Ralph Inkster View Post
Curious what power settings you use when flying. If low power settings or running lean you might not be producing enough heat in the exh pipes. What is your EGT temps during these conditions.

I usually fly 1400 on the hottest cylinder. ROP or LOP. I'm not sure that's the right way, but it flew smooth LOP that way.

Usually around 20-22" and 2300rpm.
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Last edited by rdrcrmatt : 01-24-2018 at 10:10 PM.
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  #24  
Old 01-29-2018, 08:17 AM
rdrcrmatt rdrcrmatt is offline
 
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
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Vic,

Re-did the shopvac trick, this time with one that could actually be hooked up on blow.

I think the culprit was that the cabin heat selector boxes weren't sitting flush on the firewall. They were bent away from the FW about 1/8" on the top and bottom so there was a fair amount of air leaking along the FW. I taped them up using aluminum foil tape (checked the SDS to make sure it's safe).

In flight I can only reach the rear heat, but it was HOT and flowing significantly more air. It was 32F at altitude when test flown, so I won't really know if this is fixed until it's really cold again.

Thanks for the help everyone!
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  #25  
Old 01-29-2018, 11:15 AM
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rleffler rleffler is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Delaware, OH (KDLZ)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdrcrmatt View Post
Vic,

Re-did the shopvac trick, this time with one that could actually be hooked up on blow.

I think the culprit was that the cabin heat selector boxes weren't sitting flush on the firewall. They were bent away from the FW about 1/8" on the top and bottom so there was a fair amount of air leaking along the FW. I taped them up using aluminum foil tape (checked the SDS to make sure it's safe).

In flight I can only reach the rear heat, but it was HOT and flowing significantly more air. It was 32F at altitude when test flown, so I won't really know if this is fixed until it's really cold again.

Thanks for the help everyone!
If there was air leaking on the top and bottom of the boxes, I would highly recommend taking them off the firewall and inspecting them. The fact that they are bent on the top and bottom is a red flag. Also, if my memory serves me correctly the box is sealed on the back side. If air is leaking there, then something had to happen to cause that leak.

I tend to be overly anal when it comes to firewall penetrations to ensure that there can be no CO leaks. Better be safe than sorry.
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  #26  
Old 01-29-2018, 02:39 PM
rdrcrmatt rdrcrmatt is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Milwaukee, WI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rleffler View Post
If there was air leaking on the top and bottom of the boxes, I would highly recommend taking them off the firewall and inspecting them. The fact that they are bent on the top and bottom is a red flag. Also, if my memory serves me correctly the box is sealed on the back side. If air is leaking there, then something had to happen to cause that leak.

I tend to be overly anal when it comes to firewall penetrations to ensure that there can be no CO leaks. Better be safe than sorry.

Thank you, I think that's excellent advice.

I didn't see any sealant around the openings so I assume it just wasn't done. I I hesitated taking them in order to just diagnose the issue. I also don't much care for the tape being on there, looks like poor workmanship.

I will pull the boxes off soon. I have an oil change to do and I will be installing TCW's Oil cooler control servo and butterfly valve. I'll go after the heater boxes again then.
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  #27  
Old 02-08-2018, 09:31 PM
rdrcrmatt rdrcrmatt is offline
 
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
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Update to this..

I went to pick up my sister in law about 30 minutes away on Tuesday. Heat was decent on the climb out. Went LOP, but only for about 10 minutes I had to start the descent and well, wasn't making as much power so didn't think much of getting cold again.

On the way back, again good heat on the way up. Went LOP for cruise and a few minutes later turned back to ask my pilot friend who was now in back how the heat was and I could see his breath and he was very cold.

Could LOP ops be a contributing factor? I add fuel to about 1400F on the hottest cylinder when LOP. But, with no excess fuel going into the exhaust stream I could see that as a reason why I'm not getting sufficient heat. Perhaps when ROP some fuel is getting burned up in the muffler and keeping it hotter. Just a theory.

I need to fly it again to test this hypothesis, but it's crappy weather for a few days.

Thoughts?

Next flight I will also take a thermometer to test the air temp coming from the heater vents.
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  #28  
Old 02-09-2018, 12:07 AM
mikerkba mikerkba is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ely, Nevada
Posts: 149
Default ACS Turbo Heat Cabin Heat Muff

This thread reminded me of a (reportedly new) cabin heat muff offering from Aircraft Spruce. One of the user comments mentions an RV8 installation with great results. I am considering installing one on my 8A. Has anyone here used the "turbo heat cabin heat muff"?

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...at05-15249.php
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  #29  
Old 02-09-2018, 06:47 AM
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rleffler rleffler is offline
 
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Location: Delaware, OH (KDLZ)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdrcrmatt View Post
Update to this..

I went to pick up my sister in law about 30 minutes away on Tuesday. Heat was decent on the climb out. Went LOP, but only for about 10 minutes I had to start the descent and well, wasn't making as much power so didn't think much of getting cold again.

On the way back, again good heat on the way up. Went LOP for cruise and a few minutes later turned back to ask my pilot friend who was now in back how the heat was and I could see his breath and he was very cold.

Could LOP ops be a contributing factor? I add fuel to about 1400F on the hottest cylinder when LOP. But, with no excess fuel going into the exhaust stream I could see that as a reason why I'm not getting sufficient heat. Perhaps when ROP some fuel is getting burned up in the muffler and keeping it hotter. Just a theory.

I need to fly it again to test this hypothesis, but it's crappy weather for a few days.

Thoughts?

Next flight I will also take a thermometer to test the air temp coming from the heater vents.
No, LOP isn't your issue. I fly all the time in the winter. My local temps are similar to yours (unless you're in northern WI ). I normally fly with the fronts closed and the rear barely cracked. Other than the initially taxi time, I can take my coat off and be comfortably. Most RV-10s have too much heat.

There is no magic in the heat muff. Look at your EGTs to see what the temps are going through the muff.

If you want to go to the source, give Rick at call at 303-423-7002. He builds the heat muffs for Vettermans.

I suspect you have some leaks someplace. You have to find them and appropriately address the issue. The way you described your heat valves mounted to your firewall also appears to be an issue. There should be no 1/8" gaps. Everything should be flush to the firewall.
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  #30  
Old 02-09-2018, 07:01 AM
vic syracuse vic syracuse is offline
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What Bob says is dead on. We rarely have the front heaters open, and we fly with only a light shirt on in the winter, even at OAT's in the single digits at altitude. Something is wrong with your system,a nd it's a pretty straight forward setup. Is it possible to take pictures of your engine side and then the tunnel side and post them?

If you can't post, then send them directly to me and I will take a look for you.

Vic
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