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  #1  
Old 01-21-2018, 09:09 PM
rdrcrmatt rdrcrmatt is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 58
Default Weak cabin heat?

We purchased our plane flying, almost finished. Sorry in advance for my ignorance, I'm sure this is a simple problem I'd understand better had I built the plane.

Our cabin heat is really weak. In 0įF OAT we see our breath with the cabin heat on full in front and rear. The rear seats are worst than the fronts.

We have interior, but it's still in boxes. (side note, sorry Jesse Saint, I have your seat covers out of the plane but I forgot to send them. I'll do that this week!!) I'm waiting till spring to do the interior install, so I know that will help. Our door seals are okay, but I do have some cold air coming in front of the right door in addition to the normal leak by the door struts.

That all being said, I'm not convinced air leaking out is main problem. While I'm sure it's leaking a TON, the actual heat coming out the vents is barely lukewarm.

The heat muff intakes were partially covered, I've took care of that.

I checked that the cables are actuating the levers on the heat boxes and the scat tubes are in good shape so I don't suspect any leaks.


Any suggestions?
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  #2  
Old 01-21-2018, 09:38 PM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 778
Default Maybe

Is it possible that the intake restrictions were there to slow the airflow through the heat muff and facilitate heat transfer? If the air is moving too fast through the muff, there will be minimal heat transfer from the exhaust pipe...
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  #3  
Old 01-21-2018, 10:02 PM
rdrcrmatt rdrcrmatt is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 58
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketman1988 View Post
Is it possible that the intake restrictions were there to slow the airflow through the heat muff and facilitate heat transfer? If the air is moving too fast through the muff, there will be minimal heat transfer from the exhaust pipe...
The plane was from FL, this is its first winter. That's a possibility for sure, but the air flow volume when I stick my hand over the rear heat vent isn't excessive. I'd expect the air to be hotter.
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  #4  
Old 01-22-2018, 06:36 AM
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rleffler rleffler is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Delaware, OH (KDLZ)
Posts: 3,756
Default

Something is amiss.......

RV-10s are notorious for having too much heat. Do a search on tunnel heat for more details.

I flying regularly when the temps are in the single digits. I'll crack open the rear heat about a 1/4" and leave the front closed. I will open the front a bit while taxiing, but shut it down immediately after take off. Otherwise, I would start sweating.

The builder apparently had issues too, since they restricted the intakes.

Even with massive leaks, you should be able to feel heat coming out of both the front and rear vents. If you open them wide open, your hand (or feet) shouldn't be comfortable holding them near the vents very long due to the heat.

My recommendation is to get a copy of the plans and find what doesn't match them. There were many custom mods implemented to deal with the hot tunnel issue. One was to bypass one muff and mix cold air with heated. Who knows what the builder did that caused this issue.

After you resolve this issue, I would recommend taking the plans and review the entire build. Validate that the builder followed the plans. Worse case, it will give you more confidence in the build as well as a better understanding of your aircraft.
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  #5  
Old 01-22-2018, 07:59 AM
Nukeflyboy Nukeflyboy is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 80
Default Weak cabin heat

The cabin is at a lower pressure than the outside, so there is a lot of inleakage. The heaters should put out plenty of heat, assuming they are stock and connected properly.

Pull the tunnel cover. The SCAT routing is circuitous and possibly crushed, kinked, or disconnected. Like Bob said, you should feel the flow behind the front seats where it exits the tunnel. Is the carpet in the way?

Make sure the flapper valves really work. Make sure they seal, too, because you do not want heat in the summer.

Check the SCAT to and from the heaters.

Seal the corrugations in the baggage bulkhead with some kind of foam. A lot of cold air comes forward from the tailcone.
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  #6  
Old 01-22-2018, 08:04 AM
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Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dogwood Airpark (VA42)
Posts: 1,225
Default

Like Bob said - something is amis.

Assuming you checked the cabin heat hoses and control box, perhaps the builder did not use the standard exhaust from Vanís (the one with the mufflers). If not, then how he set up whatever he did use might be the root issue.

Carl
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  #7  
Old 01-22-2018, 08:08 AM
vic syracuse vic syracuse is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Locust Grove, GA
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If the air is lukewarm coming out of the vents check the engine compartment first. Something is wrong with the SCAT routing or it is blocked. I honestly think the RV-10 could heat our house while sitting at idle! The heat muffs in the 10 are fantastic for putting out heat. We usually fly with only the rear heat on, even in temps as low at 5 degrees at altitude. I would think that even if the scat inside the tunnel was crushed you would still feel very hot air leaking through, and it would definitely be hot coming form the front heat outlets.

I have seen the lukewarm air being caused by not hooking up the SCAT tubing in the engine compartment, which is very detrimental to the heat muffs/exhaust. They need airflow over them.

It's also a dangerous source of CO.

Vic
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  #8  
Old 01-22-2018, 08:20 AM
Ron B. Ron B. is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Yarmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 2,151
Default

Perhaps being built for Florida, the builder is just dumping the heat, keeping it out of the cabin.Check the cabin heat valves on the firewall to see if they have been modified to dump the hot air?
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Last edited by Ron B. : 01-22-2018 at 11:00 AM.
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  #9  
Old 01-22-2018, 09:21 AM
rdrcrmatt rdrcrmatt is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 58
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rleffler View Post
Something is amiss.......
<snip>
My recommendation is to get a copy of the plans and find what doesn't match them. There were many custom mods implemented to deal with the hot tunnel issue. One was to bypass one muff and mix cold air with heated. Who knows what the builder did that caused this issue.

After you resolve this issue, I would recommend taking the plans and review the entire build. Validate that the builder followed the plans. Worse case, it will give you more confidence in the build as well as a better understanding of your aircraft.
I do have the plans, I'll review them today, print a copy and review with the plane when I have the cowl off for an oil change later this week. I'll also pull the tunnel cover to check for kinks.

Last time I had the cowling off I did check that the scat tubes were all hooked up and in good condition. The strangest part is that the air is lukewarm. Theres a reasonable amount of flow, just not HOT.
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  #10  
Old 01-22-2018, 09:39 AM
woxofswa woxofswa is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Mesa Arizona
Posts: 449
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Something is definitely wrong. I run cabin heat off off just one muff cuff split to both front and back and we could still bake brownies in the cabin if we wanted to. We completely removed the cuff from the unused side with Vettermen’s blessing and have just a two inch heat shield attached to the can where it is closest to the cowl. Post pix of the system or have an experienced builder look it over. It’s a pretty simple system and my guess is that the problem will be easily found.
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Last edited by woxofswa : 01-22-2018 at 10:03 AM.
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