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  #1  
Old 01-09-2018, 11:12 PM
descro descro is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6
Default Split Screen or 2 Portrait displays

The 'Search' function didn't find many posts about the benefits / drawbacks of choosing between the Garmin G3X Touch 10"display or two of the G3X Touch 7" Portrait displays.

As a new builder, panel questions are coming up, and I wonder if there are any comments or suggestions about which setup would have better utility.

The 10" model allows a split screen, so I wonder if anyone is finding advantages of using two of the 7" Portrait displays? (well, one could serve as a backup). Looks like you lose a control knob on the 7" model. And I haven't seen any examples of the 7" screen allowing a full screen view of traffic, weather or engine monitoring.

None of the "Show us your panel" images in the forum showed the two Portrait displays side by side (also not shown in the photo galleries of Steinair or Aerotronics).

The mission is for long cross countries, not yet IFR ticketed.

Thanks.

Des
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  #2  
Old 01-10-2018, 06:54 AM
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Walt Walt is offline
 
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I'm a big fan of the portrait displays, probably because thats what I've flown in my own aircraft for a number of years now. The 7" is taller than the 10" but the 2 7's don't have quite as much screen area as the 10". I chose to keep my seperate engine monitor (MVP-50) so that I don't lose the screen real estate to the eng instruments. Doing it this way gives me a larger/taller map than I would have on the 10" display. I also prefer to have both screens in front of me for redundancy purposes, with the flip of a switch or on screen button push the MFD is immediate a PFD so it's a total non event if one of the screens fails with this arrangement. I'll post some update panel pictures showing the 470 touch screens I now have and a few other changes I've made (added a 660 which I mainly use as a full time traffic page or IFR plate). I'm considering (if I ever have time) to change this to a 3 screen setup but honestly I'm VERY happy with the current layout.

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EXP Aircraft Services LLC
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Last edited by Walt : 01-10-2018 at 07:05 AM.
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  #3  
Old 01-10-2018, 11:08 AM
mturnerb mturnerb is offline
 
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Will two 7 inch screens fit RV14 panel?
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  #4  
Old 01-10-2018, 12:56 PM
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jeffw@sc47 jeffw@sc47 is offline
 
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Location: Simpsonville, SC (SC47)
Posts: 199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mturnerb View Post
Will two 7 inch screens fit RV14 panel?
I do believe that you can fit two 7" portraits side by side on the left side of the panel on a 14A. I had a panel design laid out that way and seems to fit.

I am leaning now towards a 10" on the left side for the initial panel build and very likely I will install a 7" portrait on the right side sometime later. This as a way to get everything that I would like displayed on the 10", and later get more display area with the 7" portrait when funds become available. And to add aG5X later too. And two 7" cost more than a single 10".

This gets me setup fine for VFR and saves me some $ initially with expansion for the IFR capability later.
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  #5  
Old 01-10-2018, 03:17 PM
descro descro is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6
Thumbs up Two 7's

Yes, two of the 7" portrait displays will fit and yes, those the two 7" displays cost more than the 10"

Jeff, those are my thoughts as well - add the G5, and occupy the right panel with the Portrait display. I know Airgizmo makes a canted installation for the iPad, so it is more easily seen by the pilot. I can't find anyone producing a similar item for the Portrait display. Guess that's what fabrication is for, right?
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  #6  
Old 01-10-2018, 05:59 PM
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Zuldarin Zuldarin is online now
 
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Besides what has already been said I would encourage two screens. You get more RS-232 ports (I ran out), More data fields at the top of the screen, redundancy if one screen fails, you don't give up anything except the full screen PFD display that I almost never use anyway (I have a single 10" in my 9A).

For the 10 I am building now I plan on having a 7" portrait display as the PFD and a 10" display as the MFD. Much more functionality available to the MFD in full screen mode (full size maps for example) and it free's the PFD screen up a bit by putting the engine instruments on the MFD.
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  #7  
Old 01-10-2018, 06:41 PM
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Walt Walt is offline
 
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As promised an updated panel pic with 7" portraits and Aera 660.



And MFD as full screen traffic display.

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Walt Aronow, Dallas, TX (52F) RV7A, IO360, C/S, 1500+hrs

EXP Aircraft Services LLC
Specializing in RV Condition Inspections, Maintenance, Avionics Upgrades
Dynamic Prop Balancing, Pitot-Static Altmeter/Transponder Certification
FAA Certified Repair Station, AP/IA/FCC GROL, EAA Technical Counselor
Authorized Garmin G3X Dealer/Installer
RV7A built 2004, 1700+ hrs
Website: ExpAircraft.com, Email: walt@expaircraft.com, Cell: 972-746-5154

Last edited by Walt : 01-10-2018 at 07:25 PM.
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  #8  
Old 01-10-2018, 09:48 PM
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Ed_Wischmeyer Ed_Wischmeyer is online now
 
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There are several considerations in screen layout, and with 100+ hours on a dual 10" screen Garmin G3X touch installation, these ideas (biases? prejudices?) have some experience behind them:
* Multiple 7" screens will waste panel real estate with the bezels. A big screen won't do this;
* If you need to reference the two screens simultaneously, the big bezels are a visual barrier that makes the transition harder. The old Socata Trinidad has an overly styled panel that was clunky to read because the styling put big visual barriers between sections of the panel;
* The 10" screen is big enough for a column of engine instruments plus PFD and MFD. And if you want additional engine instruments, or larger scale, that's an easy touch to get it displayed or to shrink it;
* Moving map is really a hazard display, more than it is a navigational instrument. The hazards it shows are weather, terrain, traffic, and airspaces. You don't need all these hazard displayed all the time on every flight, although there will be times that you will want them up continuously for at least a short period of time;
* Wider PFDs are easier to read the attitude on than narrower displays because at some point your eyes start picking up peripheral cues;
* Most engine instrument displays on glass displays are *terrible*. No tick marks on the power displays, and that doesn't help if, say, on an ILS you want to reduce power by 1/2". You end up doing a lot of math instead of flying the airplane. Some engine status instruments (temps and pressures) are little inconspicuous sliders on brightly colored backgrounds. Some vendors' display are worse than others. You do get used to it, or maybe you just get used to the extra time it takes to read the displays. In any case, if you've got alerts and warnings programmed in, that helps compensate for poor status displays;
* On my RV-9A, each screen has engine instruments outboard, then PFD, then MFD in the center. This means that each pilot in effect has two MFDs;
* Because I bought the plane already flying, I couldn't do as much as I wanted to with the panel. Specifically, I wanted the two 10" screens as close to the GTN 650 as I could get them. I've learned that it's hard to read a full screen display on the far side of the cockpit, but it's not bad reading the near half of a split screen display;
* Stein suggests that if you're going IFR and typing in a bunch of waypoints, get the GTN 750 instead of the GTN 650. It also puts another usable MFD screen equivalent in play;
* It's nice to have a standby attitude display, but I'd also like to have a standby GPS panel mounted so in case you end up flying with battery powered instruments, it's all on the panel -- moving your head up and down to look at an iPad on your lap is an invitation to really bad things. You can real quick run out of panel space, though...

It's tempting to say that lots of this doesn't matter, that you get used to whatever you decide on. However... back in the early days of the Macintosh computer, they ran tests to see whether arrow keys or a cursor with a mouse was faster. Lots of folks, used to arrow keys, swore that the arrow keys were faster. They were, in fact, slower. What happened was that there was a kind of amnesia and people didn't pay attention to time spent fussing with the arrow keys, so the arrow keys were left off. (But arrow keys did make a comeback...) There are numerous similar things that can happen in avionics, such as slewing a cursor with a velocity control joystick. Another factor that can pop up is that there is a context switch between manipulating the data directly and controlling the display -- such as switching screens. That context switch is non-productive workload, and can add to accumulated stress and fatigue on a challenging flight or on a bad day.

I do envy the RV-10 and RV-14 guys because my RV-9A panel is not quite big enough for everything, plus it's not feasible to change the panel. Maybe some day I'll trade the -8 and the -9A for a nice -10...
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  #9  
Old 01-24-2018, 08:36 AM
PHXflyer PHXflyer is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt View Post
As promised an updated panel pic with 7" portraits and Aera 660.



And MFD as full screen traffic display.

That is one of the coolest panels I've seen in an RV. Will definitely be what I aspire towards...if I ever get there.
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  #10  
Old 01-24-2018, 10:25 AM
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rleffler rleffler is offline
 
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I'm a fan of having two screens in front of the pilot. This is an older photo with AFS 4500s. I've since upgraded to AFS 5500s which are slightly larger.



Unless you go with a large screen like a 12", splitting the screens is award. Especially for us old farts wearing glasses.

I typically fly with the HSI, tapes, and engine on the PFD. I leave the AFS moving map up on the MFD most of the time. I like it better that having the sectional or ifr chart up. Although if I was head to an area where there is a high chance of ifr rerouting, I would leave the ifr charts up.

When I'm on approach, I move the moving map split screen with the his on my pfd. I then put the approach plate on my mfd. I would really like to split screen the chart and the map on the mfd, but that's not an option at the moment on the AFS screens. (only one map up per screen)
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