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  #41  
Old 02-09-2018, 09:19 AM
Auburntsts's Avatar
Auburntsts Auburntsts is offline
 
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Location: Dumfries, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdrcrmatt View Post
Yes of course. The muff was just rotated so you can't see the exit in the picture.
Ahh, I had to go pull up your post on my phone as my work computer was blocking your top pic so I was only seeing the bottom pic. I see now that we have the same muffs.
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  #42  
Old 02-09-2018, 11:45 AM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
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I still haven't seen a post (though I might have missed it) regarding you spending any effort on evaluating outside air leaking into the cabin.

I think your heat system is probably working as well as any other RV-10, but that wont matter a bit, if it is fighting to overcome a lot of cold air entry.

Initially, the prototype RV-10 had a serious leak problem with the hurry up and get it finished for OSH doors that were installed.
The front seat passengers would be shedding jackets and turning down the heat, while the back seaters were shivering.

Installing the final design doors and making sure everything was sealed properly made the airplane act the way everyone else here is describing.... without doing anything to the heat system.

I suggest you turn your focus to finding air leaks.
Start with finding leaks where flow is going out.

If air is going out..... cold air has to be coming in to replace it.

Think of the physics of a wing. A convexed or outside radius surface (just like the top of a wing) produces a low pressure zone.

The most common location of undesirable flow going out of any RV is in areas of low pressure. These are usually in the vicinity of the canopy because there a lot of outside radius surfaces (low pressure areas).
A common inflow point is at the back of the canopy where the transition to the fuselage is an inside radius because an inside radius produces a zone of high pressure.

On an RV-10 just about the entire perimeter of the doors is an outside radius, so that is a good place to start looking, because at any point that is not full seal, that has lower pressure on one side than the other, there will be flow of air trying to balance the pressure.
As already mentioned, if there is enough flow going out it can be higher than the flow volume coming in via your heating system, so other flow will occur to try and make up the difference.

A handy tool for finding leaks is a long dowel with a spring clip attached to the end. Attach narrow strips of Kleenex to the clip and move it around in the cabin to find indications of airflow (in or out).
Take extra strips with you because if you get it near an outflow point the Kleenex will disappear and you will have to reapply (the reason for the spring clip).

BTW, outflow at the baggage bulkhead is desirable as long as you have fixed all of the other leaks so that the only air that flows in is from either the fresh air vents or the cabin heat system. I.E., if you 100% seal up the cabin, those systems can't work very well because there is no way for cabin air to get out, and allow fresh or heated air to come in. That is where the corrugations in the baggage bulkhead can work for you. It provides a flow path out the back so that fresh air or heated air flows from front to back as it moves through the cabin.

So if everything is working the best it can (because all undesirable leaks are sealed, etc.) the only inflow points for air should be the cabin fresh air vents or the heat system, and the only outflow points should be the baggage bulkhead. If everything is working properly, you should never see any inflow at the baggage bulkhead.

I would bet that if you do the test I am suggesting, that air is pouring in at the baggage bulkhead.
If it is, start looking for the locations that it is rushing out...........
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  #43  
Old 02-09-2018, 11:35 PM
dhmoose dhmoose is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Portland, OR
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Scott is obviously correct about the flow around the cabin but I believe you said that the heat coming out of the vents isnít very hot. That is an obvious sign that something upstream from the vents is amiss. Like many have said so far, you shouldnít be able to put your bare hand in front of a heat vent for very long without feeling serious heat.

This is like a soap opera! Compelling because the solution should be simple yet, you have to come back week after week to figure out how it ends!
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  #44  
Old 02-11-2018, 08:41 PM
rdrcrmatt rdrcrmatt is offline
 
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Thank you Scott.

I agree completely and this is where I thought my focus should turn to next.
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  #45  
Old 02-11-2018, 08:46 PM
rdrcrmatt rdrcrmatt is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhmoose View Post
This is like a soap opera! Compelling because the solution should be simple yet, you have to come back week after week to figure out how it ends!
You would think it should be so simple. Unfortunately I didn't build the plane, we purchased it flying so I'm lacking in some experience that would be very helpful. Which is why I turn to the community. I'm not sure I'm on board with the soap opera comment, and it makes me wonder if I'm in the right place. I only get a few hours a week to either work on, or fly the plane so I have to report back at somewhat longer intervals.
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  #46  
Old 02-11-2018, 11:20 PM
dhmoose dhmoose is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Portland, OR
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Default Misunderstood

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdrcrmatt View Post
You would think it should be so simple. Unfortunately I didn't build the plane, we purchased it flying so I'm lacking in some experience that would be very helpful. Which is why I turn to the community. I'm not sure I'm on board with the soap opera comment, and it makes me wonder if I'm in the right place. I only get a few hours a week to either work on, or fly the plane so I have to report back at somewhat longer intervals.
Matt,
You may have misunderstood my comment. Youíve had 2,822 views of your post and 5 pages worth of responses. This is obviously of interest to fellow RV-10 builders and owners. Why? Itís because every other RV-10 owner with functional heat knows that the airplane puts out more heat then your home oven so everyone is waiting with baited breath to figure out why yours isnít putting out the heat. Itís that suspense, not your lack of knowledge, that led me to make the comment about the soap opera. No harm intended.

Youíre definitely in the right place as you just received feedback from some of the most experienced RV-10 flyers around including from within Vans Aircraft. You wonít find a better knowledge base or community anywhere. Keep letting us know what you find and everyone on here will do what they can to help.
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  #47  
Old 03-18-2018, 09:00 PM
rdrcrmatt rdrcrmatt is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 130
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Update to this saga.

Temps aren't so ridiculously cold lately so it's tolerable flying the plane with just the minor updates I made, sealing up the edges of the heater flapper boxes on the FW.

I took the advice of this thread and took small strips of paper towel with in the airplane. It was obvious where the air was getting sucked out. The door hinges were the strongest, and the door handles had a little air going out as well.

I was told by someone wise a while back that the door hinges will suck air out like crazy. I can't believe I forgot about that.

We threw some rags in the door hinges and the handles, found a few other much smaller leaks and got back to flying. The heat was better, but still not great, especially in the back.

Right now we're working on interior installation and finally got around to pulling the tunnel cover and I found several small holes in the SCAT tube for the rear heat. I'm going to patch those up or replace the whole thing. The holes are all near points where I can plainly see what the thing was rubbing on so it won't be terribly hard to prevent it from happening again.

Thank you to everyone who's read and replied. As many have said, it was a bunch of little things that added up to a severe lack of heat.

To summarize,
  • Sealed up the edged of the heater boxes on the FW using aluminum tape.
  • Checked at SCAT tubes, found the rear tube in the tunnel is leaking
  • Found several large air leaks in the canopy at the door hinges, door handles, etc using thin strips of paper towel.
  • Stuffed rags in the hinges and the front gets nice and toasty.
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