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  #1  
Old 05-11-2018, 07:34 PM
JackinMichigan's Avatar
JackinMichigan JackinMichigan is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 189
Default Buying an RV-10 for business use

I got a call today from a guy I've never met (not sure how he got my number) asking me about buying an RV-10 for use with his business; flying himself to customer locations and such. He had no interest in building one or maintaining it himself, and he hadn't flown in something like 17 years, but he was looking at an RV-10 simply because he liked the performance specs. He wanted to get himself current in it and go on to get his instrument rating as well.

I advised against it for a multitude of reasons. Firstly, unless you're really familiar with airplanes (or bring someone along who is) you can't be certain of the build quality. Secondly, he's going to have a hard time finding a mechanic willing to work on it or an instructor willing to teach him in it. Thirdly, diagnosing any problems (especially electrical) will be a significant challenge if the original builder was lax on his documentation and schematics. I recommended he get himself a Piper Arrow or such.

Just curious if I gave this guy sound advice.
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Current status: 1st Flight 11/10/17
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  #2  
Old 05-11-2018, 08:20 PM
Tankerpilot75 Tankerpilot75 is offline
 
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Location: Oklahoma City, OK
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Default

The comments you provided him were useful “cautions” but I don’t agree with your “recommendation.” It’s true build quality can very significantly from RV to RV but a thorough prebuy by a knowledgeable A&P/IA “repeat RV builder” should minimize build quality issues. My counter argument to this first “caution” you gave is the GA fleet is getting quite old and a lot of the affordable GA aircraft out there have experienced questionable maintenance practices over their lifetime. Quality maintenance practices effect an aircraft as much as quality build issues.

Your second “caution” about finding an A&P willing to maintain his aircraft is definitely not true. I’ve only had one A&P refuse to work on my RV7A because it was a home built aircraft and it wasn’t hard to find a better A&P. In fact most A&Ps I’ve talked to are impressed with the RV reputation and are willing to work with an RV builder to learn about the aircraft. As far as “instructor/check pilots, he would just need to get with a local EAA Chapter to find someone willing to provide instruction services. Better yet, there are several highly qualified instructors that people can locate through this VAF website that can provide all the instruction he would ever need.

Finally, experimental aircraft have some some of he finest avionics suppliers available today. If well documented panels are his concern then he should focus his RV10 hunt to those aircraft that have had their panels built by companies like Aerotronics, Steinair or Dynon’s Quick Panel. Panels from these companies come with great documentation (much better than your likely to get with an older GA certificated aircraft).

We all have biases but mine is towards the affordable, updated, performance driven technology that today’s experimental aircraft offer the aviation public. Too many people look down on experimental aircraft because of “quality and safety concern” issues. Too often they are willing (or fooled) into thinking a used Piper, Cessna or Beech is a safer more affordable airplane when in fact its been poorly maintained with a lot of deferred maintenance or not upgraded to meet the modern flying environment. I’d much rather fly a 2012 RV10 than a 1965 Beech Bonanza.
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IO-360, Hartzel CS prop, Older Aerotronics built panel Dual GRT Horizon WS, Garmin 340, 335, Dual 430s, Stratux hard wired to WS, Dynon D10A (backup EFIS)
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  #3  
Old 05-12-2018, 05:30 AM
vic syracuse vic syracuse is offline
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Default How unfortunate

I think you chased him away from one of the best 4-seat aircraft in general aviation. If you can get back in touch with him, at least point him to some of the forums like this one so he can make an informed decision.

Vic
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Built RV-4, RV-6, 2-RV-10's, RV-7A, RV-8, Prescott Pusher, Kitfox Model II, Kitfox Speedster, Kitfox 7 Super Sport, Just Superstol, DAR, A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor, CFII-ASMEL/ASES
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  #4  
Old 05-12-2018, 05:40 AM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
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The guy just needs a qualified support system for the airplane, same as he would if he owned a Bonanza.
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  #5  
Old 05-12-2018, 07:58 AM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
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Location: Sunman, IN
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Default Disagree

I also think you sent him away for no good reason, and pretty much agree with the previous posts as to why...
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RV-10
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Doors - Done
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  #6  
Old 05-12-2018, 08:14 AM
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JackinMichigan JackinMichigan is offline
 
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Okay okay, apparently I was the dispensor of crappy advice. I called the guy back and told him to ignore me and directed him to this site.

I do remember when geting my high performance endorsement in a Cessna 182 my instructor (9500 hours experience, according to him) said he would never give anybody instruction in a homebult. I've also talked to an A/P who shared with me horror stories about people buying second-hand homebuilts.
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Build #41389, started Oct 2012
Current status: 1st Flight 11/10/17
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  #7  
Old 05-12-2018, 08:26 AM
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Auburntsts Auburntsts is offline
 
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Location: Dumfries, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackinMichigan View Post
Okay okay, apparently I was the dispensor of crappy advice. I called the guy back and told him to ignore me and directed him to this site.

I do remember when geting my high performance endorsement in a Cessna 182 my instructor (9500 hours experience, according to him) said he would never give anybody instruction in a homebult. I've also talked to an A/P who shared with me horror stories about people buying second-hand homebuilts.

Jack, don't beat yourself up. There are crappy homebuilts out there that give the fleet a bad rep. There are also CFIs and DPEs that won't fly in E-ABs. However, in both instances, these tend to be the exception and not the rule.

Buying a used E-AB is no different than buying any other used aircraft. Exercise due diligence and do a thorough prebuy conducted by a knowledgeable person. There are thousands of non-builder owners that have done just that and are happily flying their E-ABs.
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  #8  
Old 05-12-2018, 08:32 AM
74-07 74-07 is offline
 
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Location: Greenville, SC
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Default RV-10

Just an info point. I’ve purchased two RVs, a 8 and a 7. Both were beautifully built, have been absolutely reliable and performed better in every way over the 1960s high performance single I owned previously. Purchasing an experimental is no different than certified. Anyone buying one MUST either have the knowledge to recognize quality and safety issues or hire someone that does. I can tell you horror stories on the certified side when an uniformed buyer made an emotional decision.
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  #9  
Old 05-12-2018, 10:39 AM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
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Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 860
Default Oh yeah...

My first plane was a C-172 and it was a HORROR story for sure (and expensive!)...
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Bob
Aerospace Engineer '88

RV-10
Structure - 90% Done
Cabin Top - Aaarrghhh...
Doors - Done
On Gear
290 HP Barrett Hung
ShowPlanes Cowl with Skybolts Fitted - Beautiful

Dues Paid 2017,...Thanks DR+
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  #10  
Old 05-12-2018, 02:07 PM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackinMichigan View Post
Okay okay, apparently I was the dispensor of crappy advice. I called the guy back and told him to ignore me and directed him to this site.

I do remember when geting my high performance endorsement in a Cessna 182 my instructor (9500 hours experience, according to him) said he would never give anybody instruction in a homebult. I've also talked to an A/P who shared with me horror stories about people buying second-hand homebuilts.
Jack, it must have something to do with 1D2! Back in the dark ages when I got my PPL there, the standing opinion was that anyone who flew a homebuilt had a death wish.

After flying my -9 for 10 years, I'm still amazed people think that way.

A friend who is going through A&P school down here in Greenville told me that his instructor is pushing them to learn about E-AB's because with 10,000 RV's and countless other Experimentals out there, and many on their second owner, they will be turning away business if they refuse to work on homebuilts.
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