Van's Air Force
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wire kit...stein vs vans
- Thread starter miyu1975
- Start date
Wiring Kit
I searched the forums and found that Van's kit was given thumbs up by those who kept their wiring simple/followed Van's wiring diagram.
Others (those who developed their own wiring diagrams) seemed divided:
1. Van's kit served as a good basis to work from.
2. Van's kit was a waste of money.
Based on this mixed set of responses I bought Stein's kit, plus numerous extras from Stein, B&C, Van's etc. purchased as needed.
Stein's kit is high quality and well packaged (boxes for shrink tubing, connectors, etc.). No regrets buying his kit if you're doing your own plan.
Mike
I searched the forums and found that Van's kit was given thumbs up by those who kept their wiring simple/followed Van's wiring diagram.
Others (those who developed their own wiring diagrams) seemed divided:
1. Van's kit served as a good basis to work from.
2. Van's kit was a waste of money.
Based on this mixed set of responses I bought Stein's kit, plus numerous extras from Stein, B&C, Van's etc. purchased as needed.
Stein's kit is high quality and well packaged (boxes for shrink tubing, connectors, etc.). No regrets buying his kit if you're doing your own plan.
Mike
Allan Stern
Well Known Member
Wiring
I don't think there is anything really called a simple wiring plan. It is amazing as to how many wires you really have when all is said and done. However, if you do the wiring one wire at a time it is not that bad. When I built my 6A I purchased Van's wiring kit. The instructions were good and the drawings adequate, but I cut the harness apart and strung one wire at a time following the plans. I still have wires left over from the harness that I never used.
When I built my 8A I used the original wiring drawing as it had both the 6 and 8 on it, and then made my own harness paying attention to the AWG sizing called out in the plans. I think I purchased wire alone from Steins and switches from him too. CB's from Aircraft Spruce. I also used Approach Systems wire harnesses to make the avionics and other wire runs simpler. With them all you have to hook up are the positive and negative wires.
There is no time frame as to when you can start pulling wires. I would run some while you can get inside your fuselage and it is easy to get to as you already have the grommet holes drilled. You will assemble your panel on the work bench hooking up the instruments then install and pull wires to engine. Remember, long wires can be cut shorter. Short wires can not be stretched longer.
Hope this helps some.
Allan Stern, N570RV 6A Aerosport 0-320, CS "My Girl"
RV8A Lycoming 0-180, CS, GRT HX EFIS "Toozicoot"
I don't think there is anything really called a simple wiring plan. It is amazing as to how many wires you really have when all is said and done. However, if you do the wiring one wire at a time it is not that bad. When I built my 6A I purchased Van's wiring kit. The instructions were good and the drawings adequate, but I cut the harness apart and strung one wire at a time following the plans. I still have wires left over from the harness that I never used.
When I built my 8A I used the original wiring drawing as it had both the 6 and 8 on it, and then made my own harness paying attention to the AWG sizing called out in the plans. I think I purchased wire alone from Steins and switches from him too. CB's from Aircraft Spruce. I also used Approach Systems wire harnesses to make the avionics and other wire runs simpler. With them all you have to hook up are the positive and negative wires.
There is no time frame as to when you can start pulling wires. I would run some while you can get inside your fuselage and it is easy to get to as you already have the grommet holes drilled. You will assemble your panel on the work bench hooking up the instruments then install and pull wires to engine. Remember, long wires can be cut shorter. Short wires can not be stretched longer.
Hope this helps some.
Allan Stern, N570RV 6A Aerosport 0-320, CS "My Girl"
RV8A Lycoming 0-180, CS, GRT HX EFIS "Toozicoot"
I bought from stein and have no regrets. I would say (like the others) that the further you stray from "standard," the less helpful Van's wiring will be. I doubt if Van's kit has been upgraded to more nearly meet the needs of the more-common glass instrumentation. Ordering from Stein may be a bit more of a hassle as you will have more options. I would say my deciding factor was that, when you call with a question, someone very knowledgeable in wiring will answer the phone. Also, I think Stein will come closer to having the oddball part that you will end up needing. Money wise, I have no idea which would be best for you. And it is never to early to start pulling wires.
Bob Kelly
Bob Kelly
alpinelakespilot2000
Well Known Member
Stein's wiring kit (and tools) have been all that I've really needed, except that Van's wiring drawings (can be purchased separately from their wiring kit for $10-15) are also extremely useful for someone who doesn't know a lot about wiring. Good luck.
N8RV
Well Known Member
Knowing nothing about electronics or wiring needs when I got to the place in my building process where I needed to decide what to do, I simply ordered Van's wiring harness. I knew it was basic, but I was not planning to do anything special. I bought the harness that provided for the battery on the firewall.
Fast forward to the time I REALLY needed to start wiring. By then, my engine choices had expanded and the consensus among -8 drivers was by then that the battery should be mounted in BACK, regardless what engine you choose. So, rather than cobble together the large-gauge wires that I would need to make the changes, I just ordered the other wiring kit (that was designed for the battery in the back).
Along with the changes in engine choices, the glass panel revolution was building up steam, and I abandoned my steam gauges for a pair of Dynon units. Other than having a bunch of pre-made wires left over (along with extra switches and terminals which later came in handy), it only wasted a little money and gave me the assurance that the important wires were well-made and of the right size and length. For ME, that was important.
Stein's panel wiring didn't put any demands on the stock Van's wiring harness that I couldn't accomodate. I'm sure Stein makes a fantastic wiring system, and agree with the others that if you're planning a unique wiring plan, you can't go wrong with anything he does.
And, yes, he paid me to say that.
Fast forward to the time I REALLY needed to start wiring. By then, my engine choices had expanded and the consensus among -8 drivers was by then that the battery should be mounted in BACK, regardless what engine you choose. So, rather than cobble together the large-gauge wires that I would need to make the changes, I just ordered the other wiring kit (that was designed for the battery in the back).
Along with the changes in engine choices, the glass panel revolution was building up steam, and I abandoned my steam gauges for a pair of Dynon units. Other than having a bunch of pre-made wires left over (along with extra switches and terminals which later came in handy), it only wasted a little money and gave me the assurance that the important wires were well-made and of the right size and length. For ME, that was important.
Stein's panel wiring didn't put any demands on the stock Van's wiring harness that I couldn't accomodate. I'm sure Stein makes a fantastic wiring system, and agree with the others that if you're planning a unique wiring plan, you can't go wrong with anything he does.
And, yes, he paid me to say that.
gvgoff99
Well Known Member
Approach FastStack
For your avionics if you are looking for EXCELLENT wiring support and about a three hour job to wire your entire radio stack, no matter how complex, then I HIGHLY recommend the Approach FastStack http://approachfaststack.com/ system. I installed it and the time that it saved me was enormous! In addition the quality of the harnesses that you will receive is unsurpassed.
If you go for an "upgrade" down the line the support and harness to accomplish any wish list is a phone call away. Tim Haas is a GENIUS! He is the Manager of the System, is very approachable and has figured out all the various combinations of radio gear and how to hook it up so that it can function as a unit.
I have done two upgrades since completion of my plane in 2006. One was to upgrade my Garmin 430 to a 430W. Not difficult for the Approach FastStack folks but it would have been a nightmare for me. The most recent is the installation of an ADS600 which would have made any other nightmare look like a day dream if I had attempted to do it myself. It took me about 5 hours to dissect out all the unneeded wiring and replace it with the new harness that Approach FastStack sent to me.
The real beauty was that I KNEW that I would not fry any of that expensive stuff in the panel. If I wired it myself, who knows!
I may not be exactly on topic as it does not address the wiring to the other systems in the plane. Approach FastStack does not do the basic wiring for the plane's starter, lighting, etc. But you are probably close to the Avionics install and in that department they are unparalleled. Approach FastStack is a system that is standardized to easily be changed.
Obviously I really like them as I LIKE simple time saving solutions that are not complex to change at some later date.
For your avionics if you are looking for EXCELLENT wiring support and about a three hour job to wire your entire radio stack, no matter how complex, then I HIGHLY recommend the Approach FastStack http://approachfaststack.com/ system. I installed it and the time that it saved me was enormous! In addition the quality of the harnesses that you will receive is unsurpassed.
If you go for an "upgrade" down the line the support and harness to accomplish any wish list is a phone call away. Tim Haas is a GENIUS! He is the Manager of the System, is very approachable and has figured out all the various combinations of radio gear and how to hook it up so that it can function as a unit.
I have done two upgrades since completion of my plane in 2006. One was to upgrade my Garmin 430 to a 430W. Not difficult for the Approach FastStack folks but it would have been a nightmare for me. The most recent is the installation of an ADS600 which would have made any other nightmare look like a day dream if I had attempted to do it myself. It took me about 5 hours to dissect out all the unneeded wiring and replace it with the new harness that Approach FastStack sent to me.
The real beauty was that I KNEW that I would not fry any of that expensive stuff in the panel. If I wired it myself, who knows!
I may not be exactly on topic as it does not address the wiring to the other systems in the plane. Approach FastStack does not do the basic wiring for the plane's starter, lighting, etc. But you are probably close to the Avionics install and in that department they are unparalleled. Approach FastStack is a system that is standardized to easily be changed.
Obviously I really like them as I LIKE simple time saving solutions that are not complex to change at some later date.
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lucaperazzolli
Well Known Member
IMHO study before
if I can tell you my point of view ...
start with section 5 of the manual - very short style electrical engineer course; then buy The Aeroelectric Connection book from Bob Nuckolls, surf a lot into the aeroelectric website and download the tons of information from there.
Start from here, and then you can decide which kit to buy.
ps: I bought the Van's kit, perfect starting point. I use only the wires, bought other wires, other switches, other terminals but the drawing help me a lot. If I was in the same situation I'll redo; for my next project I'll buy the elements from Stein.
my 2 cents
if I can tell you my point of view ...
start with section 5 of the manual - very short style electrical engineer course; then buy The Aeroelectric Connection book from Bob Nuckolls, surf a lot into the aeroelectric website and download the tons of information from there.
Start from here, and then you can decide which kit to buy.
ps: I bought the Van's kit, perfect starting point. I use only the wires, bought other wires, other switches, other terminals but the drawing help me a lot. If I was in the same situation I'll redo; for my next project I'll buy the elements from Stein.
my 2 cents
Ryan, I just started some of my wiring. I am using Vans kit for plane harness and Stein for the avionics. I don't know how well it will work out but I think vans kit is just fine for my setup, Sky view, 496 and garmin stack.
As far as when to start the wiring I don't know I AM A FIRST TIME BUILDER so this might be rite or might be wrong but here is how I am doing it. All the wire that needed to be installed behind the rear seat back is in before the aft top skin goes on, battery, A/P and strobes. Now I am working on under the front top skin and panel wire. My idea is to get it all installed and tested before the top skin gets welded on so I wont have to dive under the panel to many times. I am sure once I get it all done some of the wire will have to come out to be able to rivet on the skin but this seems much easer then the alternative. The way the aft wiring worked out I still have to go back there but just to make point of connections so not to bad.
Like I said I am a first timer so every thing I am doing could be wrong, But I have never had so much fun messing something up.
As far as when to start the wiring I don't know I AM A FIRST TIME BUILDER so this might be rite or might be wrong but here is how I am doing it. All the wire that needed to be installed behind the rear seat back is in before the aft top skin goes on, battery, A/P and strobes. Now I am working on under the front top skin and panel wire. My idea is to get it all installed and tested before the top skin gets welded on so I wont have to dive under the panel to many times. I am sure once I get it all done some of the wire will have to come out to be able to rivet on the skin but this seems much easer then the alternative. The way the aft wiring worked out I still have to go back there but just to make point of connections so not to bad.
Like I said I am a first timer so every thing I am doing could be wrong, But I have never had so much fun messing something up.
I'm at that point of starting my wiring. I bought my kit from Stein. I made a custom kit with colored wires. I'm doing simple color wiring red is power, black is ground and blue is a signal wire........most of the time. My simple scheme hasn't proved to be that simple. I have the flap position system and a 2 speed safety trim. I'm planning on a Dynon D100 and EMS 120, Garmin SL40 with GTX 330 Transponder and GPS 696 and of course nav and strobe lights. I also went with a multi-function Infinity stick. So far I have the stick wired in with the flap position system, the safety trim, strobe pack with tail light and most of the electric elevator trim. Stien will let you design the wiring kit you want. My friend is building a QB8 and bought his wiring kit from Van's. He said it was ok. He is a little further along than I. If you want to customize, do Stein, if not go Van's.
Rick Maury
SB-7
Rick Maury
SB-7
Amazin'
People talk about firewall forward installations being unique - that's child's play compared to aircraft wiring. I can't imagine how someone can give you a wiring kit for these totally unique airplanes and expect it to work to satisfy all of the electrical interface requirements.
Bob Axsom
People talk about firewall forward installations being unique - that's child's play compared to aircraft wiring. I can't imagine how someone can give you a wiring kit for these totally unique airplanes and expect it to work to satisfy all of the electrical interface requirements.
Bob Axsom
One tool that makes things easy is a wire labeler. K-Sun makes an inexpensive unit for around $100 with a couple of shrink tube cartridges. You can find them new on Ebay. Prints on heat shrink tubing. Makes keeping track of everything easy and also prints regular labels. Don
N8RV
Well Known Member
Not all installations are "unique", Bob. Mine, for example, varies only a little from Van's stock wiring diagram, and intentionally so. I learned long ago that every variation from Van's drawings usually resulted to a LOT of time, waste and disappointment for me! Therefore, other than a few unique touches that make Smokey just a bit different from every other RV-8 out there, it's pretty much bone stock. And, therefore, the stock wiring harness worked very well for me.
For those not interested in reinventing the wheel, it's a good alternative, IMO.
