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Is there a better tool?

MFMarch

Member
I've been struggling lately trying to get the #8 screws to go into the nutplates. It doesn't matter if the nutplate is a K1100-08 or K1000-08, or if the screw is an AN515-8R8 or an AN509-8R8, the screws almost always go in just about 1/3 to 1/2 of the necessary distance and then they freeze up to the point that either the #2 screwdriver tip gets stripped or the heads in the screws get stripped.
I put a lot of these nutplates in without checking them and it makes me nervous that I might have to disassemble a wing and drill them out to replace them. (I'll find out when I try to attach the fuel tanks!)
I've tried using just a screwdriver and also using a screwdriver bit in a drill with the same results.
Am I doing something wrong or using the wrong tool, or what?
 
Screwdriver type

Use the correct screwdriver type from a quality supplier. For the smaller screw I found a low quality driver will strip the heads.
For me, I am going to change to the NAS110x series for the inspection covers.
 
Use a tap

When I had to install the fuel tanks, I had the same problem. Someone suggested that I run a #8 tap once or twice through each nut plate with lube. It worked like a charm. Contrary to some naysayers, there is still plenty of friction left to hold the screw tight.
 
my personal fix

(besides tapping the plates very gingerly to loosen them some, which I no longer do): Wax toilet bowl ring for thread lube. One ring will do about 6.02x10^23 screws. Valve lapping compound on the tip of the Phillips bit - gives greatly improved grip and prevents cam-out. Quality Wiha screwdrivers. Pay the Germans and buy once-cry once.

EZ-Outs for when the above fails. If you don;t chase a tap through your #6's, I believe it's only a matter of time under the best of conditions...
 
Bees wax will make your life better......

What he said - pick up a toilet wax ring at Lowe's or Home Depot or wherever. Dip the first few threads in it. Costs almost nothing and it makes a world of difference ...
 
(besides tapping the plates very gingerly to loosen them some, which I no longer do): Wax toilet bowl ring for thread lube. One ring will do about 6.02x10^23 screws. Valve lapping compound on the tip of the Phillips bit - gives greatly improved grip and prevents cam-out. Quality Wiha screwdrivers. Pay the Germans and buy once-cry once.

EZ-Outs for when the above fails. If you don;t chase a tap through your #6's, I believe it's only a matter of time under the best of conditions...

A mole of screws??? What's the atomic weight of a screw?
 
This helpful hint first published in The Experimenter by Avogadro :D

He considered it to be the normal solution.
 
Ribbed for your pleasure

I always make sure I have ribs on my tip when screwing. I do not use lube, I just put them in there. No sweet-talk or anything like that, just go for it.

https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-46005-Ribbed-1-Inch-Phillips/dp/B0065ID2BU

The lil ribs on the tips hold the screw tightly. This also helps in tight quarters and unusual positions if the driver is a little out of alignment with the screw. As for the shaft, the threads do get roughed up by the nutplate, but I figure that is how it is supposed to be?

;)
 
If you think it's an issue of dirt, paint, or other FOD, I cut a slit length wise in the threades with a dremmel. The slot cleanes out any materials without cutting new threads or making the "hole sloppy" just use the screw as a chase and then replace it with a new fresh screw.
 
I always make sure I have ribs on my tip when screwing. I do not use lube, I just put them in there. No sweet-talk or anything like that, just go for it.

https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-46005-Ribbed-1-Inch-Phillips/dp/B0065ID2BU

The lil ribs on the tips hold the screw tightly. This also helps in tight quarters and unusual positions if the driver is a little out of alignment with the screw. As for the shaft, the threads do get roughed up by the nutplate, but I figure that is how it is supposed to be?

;)

+1 But lube allows return performance, less trauma.

I seldom (almost never) have a driver slip now with the ribbed, replaceable tips.
 
Tap

Boelube for sure but I actually run a tap in three turns. It leaves plenty of tension. Downside is the time involved. When I have a few extra minutes but don't want to start a new step, I tap nutplates.
 
1) Torx might seem like they strip easy, but are you sure you are using the correct sized bit? Because they work for a while with the wrong bit, and then strip. Also, people often mix Torx and Allen tip heads all the time. Again, they mostly work but will strip eventually.

FYI, Phillips head screws are designed to strip. They were first created so machines could drive screws, and have the head strip before the threads did.


2) For sure tap the nut plates. I think they are using the same tap to make them, that they used 50 years ago, and it is getting small.

3) Boelube also helps a lot.
 
Speed Handle

Use a good quality speed handle with apex tip instead of power tools, it gives you a better feel and you can apply good pressure.
 
Threaded rod instead of a tap...

Hey All,

I've had pretty good luck with this. I noticed that the first time I put in and removed a screw was the hardest. Now I chuck a piece of threaded rod in a drill and run it in and out of new nut plates, just make sure you don't go too deep and dent something!

Lance
 
I get really nervous when I see this many people say "run a tap through your nut plates!" Sure - there are a few low risk places where this might be OK. But airplanes are not cars, trucks, boats, or houses - fasteners in aircraft are designed to be hard to remove because the consequences of critical parts coming off are much worse than getting stuck by the side of the road. Cavalierly telling people to "run a tap through" defeats the locking purpose of the fastener, and while that might be OK on a storage compartment inside the cockpit, it is not such a good idea on a fuel tank attach plate.

The problem with blanket advice like this is that some places, its OK, other places, it is dangerous, and a rookie builder probably might not know the difference. But its the easiest way to go, so they listen to this large number of people on the internet, rather than the designer of their airplane, or the good words in the good book of acceptable techniques and practices (AC 43.13).

The bottom line is that if you use good tools, and you use BoeLube (beeswax is a good substitute if you check the ingredients) the first time you put a screw in a new nut plate (both recommended by experienced designers and the makers of most kits), you shouldn't have problems. Randomly removing the locking feature of aircraft fasteners is just a bit careless, and a shortcut to doing things right. And shortcuts often lead to bad places.

Paul
 
Nutplates

are a pain, but needed. I have seen all too many that were so tight that the screw broke. I have had zero issue since I started lubing with wax, canning wax from the grocery store. Comes in a box with something like 5 plates of wax. After the first screw installation things get a lot easier. I suspect that any wax, or Boelube, will work as well... this is as inexpensive as you can get.

In really difficult areas to access I have used a close tolerance tap to chase the threads, but proceed with great caution to not remove too much of the nut plate. If you run it through completely you have nothing left except a nut, no locking feature is left.
 
Tefgel

An earlier poster had suggested Tefgel. I second that!
Tefgel is the go to product in the marine environment.
Mix stainless and aluminum or steel and add salt air and your in for a world of hurt trying to remove that fastener.

I built a Carbon Cub with a friend. We used Tefgel as most of the assembled parts are put together with stainless into aluminum. By the way the factory was very interested to learn of our method and asked about the Tefgel product.
 
BoeLube is $4, not sure why anybody would use anything else ..

I think running a tap is a terrible idea, they are suppose to be *really* tight.

By the way, screwdrivers aren't one size fits all .. in my humble experience stripping a head typically comes from not using the right size driver.
 
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There are two sets of tools where I spent a lot of money...cross-point screwdrivers and torque wrenches. Mine are from Snap-On, and the difference between the Snap-On screwdrivers and my Crapsman ones is like night and day...

For some reason, I have a Reed and Prince driver in my toolbox :). Just because. Never used it ever, but someday... :))
 
Get the BoeLube that looks like white wax, it will last for years for keeping drill bits sharp. As you use it, it will begin to break up into chunks and powder. Sprinkle some of this into your tray of screws. I prefer stirred, not shaken at that point :D
 
Nutplates

Plus one on Paul's post. If you plan to use stainless screws you may find it better to install a plain steel screw the first time, then remove and install stainless. Another option is allen head plain screws, then remove and install stainless. All with the prescribed lube.
Snap on screwdriver tips, 1/4" drive with ratchet also helps.
 
We used Torq-Set head screws in the Navy. Was supposed to be better than phillips head and not strip out as easy. We called them swaztika tips. BTW, I need to find a supplier for these screws. I would like to use them on my -4.
 
nutplates

I used the #4 screws and nut plates from Cleveland for my wingtips..Boelube on all the screws and regular screwdrivers of proper size Absolutely no problem. Have had wingtips on and off a few times and love those #4's. Tried tapping a few plates and they seemed to lose all their screw retention qualities, so I avoid the tap. Just Boelube, a little care and everything goes well for me. At all sizes. Never tried the toilet seal but that sounds a good idea...
 
I get really nervous when I see this many people say "run a tap through your nut plates!" Sure - there are a few low risk places where this might be OK. But airplanes are not cars, trucks, boats, or houses - fasteners in aircraft are designed to be hard to remove because the consequences of critical parts coming off are much worse than getting stuck by the side of the road. Cavalierly telling people to "run a tap through" defeats the locking purpose of the fastener, and while that might be OK on a storage compartment inside the cockpit, it is not such a good idea on a fuel tank attach plate.

The problem with blanket advice like this is that some places, its OK, other places, it is dangerous, and a rookie builder probably might not know the difference. But its the easiest way to go, so they listen to this large number of people on the internet, rather than the designer of their airplane, or the good words in the good book of acceptable techniques and practices (AC 43.13).

The bottom line is that if you use good tools, and you use BoeLube (beeswax is a good substitute if you check the ingredients) the first time you put a screw in a new nut plate (both recommended by experienced designers and the makers of most kits), you shouldn't have problems. Randomly removing the locking feature of aircraft fasteners is just a bit careless, and a shortcut to doing things right. And shortcuts often lead to bad places.
Paul

Dogfight! (yeah, I know, that's the other magazine ;))

First, auto and truck fastener failures have life and death consequences, just like airplanes. However, you won't find a lot of locking fasteners, because fastener loss just isn't much of a problem. If it was, believe me, the NHTSA would make the FAA look like Boy Scouts, not to mention the truck crash lawyers behind every tree.

"Designed to be hard to remove"? Not really. Nutplates were designed to be reliable (read "don't turn") blind thread receptacles. The locking function is secondary, and can be a plastic insert, which has nothing like the friction of an "egg hole" all metal plate nut. And if high friction is critical, should we ban rivnuts? Zeus fasteners? Quarter turn cowl hardware?

Let's take a hard look at the applications on an RV. There are a few places where a plate nut is used in structure, but they're typically 3/16 and 1/4", and get torqued bolts. There are also the tank screws, along the front spar. None get removed short of a serious issue, so sure, why fool with the locking feature?

The vast majority hold inspection plates, floorboards, seat parts, etc...stuff removed for inspections at least one per year. All have multiple screws. The loss of a single screw means zip, and even if the part managed to shed enough screws to actually come adrift, how many would be critical to the continuation of flight? Bottom line is that there is no good reason why removing them should be hard. We might even argue that making removal hard just encourages pencil annuals, while easy removal supports inspections.

Last, it is entirely possible to tweak an all-metal K1000 with a tap so it has plenty of lock left in it, but not enough to strip a screw head. There is no reason to ban a tap when used sensibly.
 
Burnish, don't tap

Get hardened socket head capscrews of the appropriate size. Lube liberally with Boelube, then using your electric screwdriver, run them into and back out of the nutplate which is held in non-marring vise jaws. I do them in batches ahead of time, but this can be done in place on the airframe just as easily. Zero material removed, just refines the surface finish, leaving plenty of prevailing torque. Also, plus one on using high grade screwdrivers (or bits). I like Wiha, nice German stuff readily available via online order.
 
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