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RV9 for Formation?

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skelrad

Well Known Member
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After decades of dreaming, the stars are aligning and I'll be able to start building sometime this fall! I've had A LOT of false starts over the years, but fingers crossed that this is the time! My wife says I've been responsible for enough years that it's my turn to do something completely irrational, like build a plane.

I've pretty well settled on the RV9A for a variety of reasons that don't need to be rehashed here. I am curious though, while I have no real desire to flip upside down, formation flying is something I'd love to get into. It seems like most formation guys are flying anything but RV9s. Does that just say something about the guys who fly formation or the planes themselves? Would I really be hampered from flying formation if I fly a 9?
 
skelrad said:
After decades of dreaming, the stars are aligning and I'll be able to start building sometime this fall! I've had A LOT of false starts over the years, but fingers crossed that this is the time! My wife says I've been responsible for enough years that it's my turn to do something completely irrational, like build a plane.

I've pretty well settled on the RV9A for a variety of reasons that don't need to be rehashed here. I am curious though, while I have no real desire to flip upside down, formation flying is something I'd love to get into. It seems like most formation guys are flying anything but RV9s. Does that just say something about the guys who fly formation or the planes themselves? Would I really be hampered from flying formation if I fly a 9?
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I know of three FFI Formation Pilots that fly the RV-9A. (Scoot, Cookie, and Gunner) It can and has been done. Falcon Flight Formation Team has an RV-9A in its group.
 
If there is a lack of RV-9's in formation it doesn't have anything to do with the plane. I fly formation and even have a fix pitched prop. No problems.
 
Ha! Yeah. For a non-acro show, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a -9. Ours has been flying the Falcon Flight show for years. Heck, after a couple of years in the same position, your wingman might just come to appreciate that it is just a little less twitchy in roll. In fact, it is scheduled to perform a show in a couple of weeks.
 
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Thanks for the feedback everybody. I didn't really think it was an issue, but was curious considering the relatively few -9s I've seen doing formation.
 
Bandit Flight Team has two Yaks, an RV-14, several RV-8's, an RV-6, several RV-7's, an RV-4, and an RV-9. No issues with formation work.
 
I fly a fixed pitched O320 powered RV9A and took couple lessons. I found it very challenging to keep my position. The lead was rock solid, the instructor top notch but I struggled to stay in right place. I am positive my instructor didn't like how I used red knob to slow down after break :D
 
Vlad makes a subtle but important point. I'm sure that real men have no trouble doing formation work with fixed pitch, but the rest of us sissies find it much easier with a c/s prop. That's a much bigger issue than which model RV you fly, because all the RV's are so clean they don't really have good 'brakes' without a c/s prop.

Charlie
(almost no formation work since my Swift days)
 
Brandon,
As already said, the RV9 is fine for the standard FFI formation flying (non-acro). As for possibly being more challenging than the other models, I don't think so. All models with the O-320 engine and fixed prop will be more challenging than the larger engine/constant speed models. It's just a mater of technique, anticipation and practice.

Bill "Gunner" FFI-FL
 
BillC said:
Brandon,
As already said, the RV9 is fine for the standard FFI formation flying (non-acro). As for possibly being more challenging than the other models, I don't think so. All models with the O-320 engine and fixed prop will be more challenging than the larger engine/constant speed models. It's just a mater of technique, anticipation and practice.

Bill "Gunner" FFI-FL
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Just requires a superior pilot since everybody else is cheating! :eek:
 
Scott did give me a tip sometime back that was helpful when flying with short wing RV's.

Measure distance from the wing root to the outboard aileron hinge on a -7. Then place a small piece of tape on the bottom of your aileron at the same distance. That will help your wingman hold position relative to the other planes in the formation.
 
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N941WR said:
Scott fid give me a tip sometime back that was helpful when flying with short wing RV's.

Measure distance from the wing root to the outboard aileron hinge on a -7. Then place a small piece of tape on the bottom of your aileron at the same distance. That will help your wingman hold position relative to the other planes in the formation.
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Yep. Only for training purposes of new wingmen. And when they think they're going to get away with being sucked by some silly comment like "but you have an extra foot of wing sticking out there..." I always bark back "Sucked is sucked, now suck it up buttercup and get back in and don't hit Lead." That is usually the last I hear about that.

Falcon has never complained a single time about having a -9 in our performance. Neither should any other Lead. As long as we're all here to have FUN! (right?)

Good conversation!
 
The comments regarding FP vs. CS props, while important is not unique to the -9. However, this should be discussed in the briefing.

The only time I have had an issue because of my FP prop was going into Ellington as a flight when lead pulled off all the power for landing and I went sailing on by. Full rudder helped but I still tool a long time to get down. Good thing I was #4.

The only time I had an issue due to my long wing was when leading a flight with four very experienced wingmen. We briefed that I was to make a climbing left turn at 120 knots and the would join up. (All RV-6, 7, & 8's.) Their assumption was that since the had CS props and I had a FP prop the would quickly join up. What they didn't realize was that although I had a cruise prop, 180+ hp and the Ronz airfoil was in its sweet spot and I had to pull a lot of power off so they could join up. Even then it took 2-1/2 circles to get them tucked in.
 
Two and a half circles seems a lot to join up a formation after take-off. Do you give your wingers some power to play with? (Sorry about the dangling participle... Easier to say that way)

We do a bit of formation here* and when I'm leading (180 HP, FP), I use 2300 RPM for the climb at around 105 - 115 Kt. Because of the hills surrounding our airport, we normally climb straight ahead for about 2 miles at which point our four ship has joined up.

In flat country and 2 X two ship departures, I would initiate a turn about a mile off the end of the runway and expect three and four to come aboard during the turn.

It IS a lot of fun, isn't it? (;>0)


*Other aircraft: RV-9A (160 HP, FP), RV-4 (160 HP, FP) RV-7A (180 HP, FP)
 
As to wing position, we use the inboard aileron hinge on fuselage/engine cowl line. Easy to see. With the differing ailerons widths, this means the formation is not quite symmetrical, but our audience can't tell the difference anyway! (;>0)
 
Schooner69 said:
Two and a half circles seems a lot to join up a formation after take-off. Do you give your wingers some power to play with? (Sorry about the dangling participle... Easier to say that way)

...


*Other aircraft: RV-9A (160 HP, FP), RV-4 (160 HP, FP) RV-7A (180 HP, FP)
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I think I caught them by surprise and 120 knots is a bit fast, but that's what they wanted.

Remember, a -9 with the same power will out climb a short wing RV.
 
N941WR said:
I think I caught them by surprise and 120 knots is a bit fast, but that's what they wanted.

Remember, a -9 with the same power will out climb a short wing RV.
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There are a lot of people that think an RV-6(A) with the same horsepower is faster than an RV-9(A) when they have the same HP and type prop. That is NOT true. The RV-9A 320 / CS is just as fast as my RV-6 320 / CS. The RV-9A also can fly slower but it can also fly just as fast.
 
RV6_flyer said:
There are a lot of people that think an RV-6(A) with the same horsepower is faster than an RV-9(A) when they have the same HP and type prop. That is NOT true. The RV-9A 320 / CS is just as fast as my RV-6 320 / CS. The RV-9A also can fly slower but it can also fly just as fast.
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I'm not surprised at all. If you are not into aerobatics, the -9's wing is AMAZING!
 
Live on APRS TV for the next 13min... An actual RV-9A with a "GIRL Pilot" flying formation in an airshow. As if there was any quesiton? Falcon Flight 6-ship Cleburne airshow.
IMG_3592.JPG._res.png


*clip*

And there you have it. Leave work at noon on Friday to make the waivered practice, sit all night and day, Game ON an hour before start time, perform for a few minutes, then nappy time!

airshow_res.png


I spent my day in the shop instead.
 
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So, if a 9 will climb faster, fly slower and also fly as fast as the other models, why do we bother with them?
 
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