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  #21  
Old 09-12-2017, 08:32 AM
mtnclimber mtnclimber is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Nathrop Colorado
Posts: 60
Default Fuel on up-wing tank. Not fullest.

With strong crosswind, and steep bank angle there is a serious risk of fuel starvation due to un-porting if you are on the low wing tank. So the fullest tank rule isn't always a good idea.

Prop will stop going over the fence, and you are left with a dead stick landing in a high-pucker situation.

Ask me how I know! ( But maybe the best Xwind landing I've ever made )

Roger
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  #22  
Old 09-12-2017, 08:33 AM
2johns 2johns is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Great Falls, Montana
Posts: 76
Default

You need to set your limits. I learned mine 55 years ago in my first solo flight in a Piper colt. I was slowly drifted off the runway. My thoughts were "no big deal" until I hit the soft dirt and I very slowly ended up upside down.
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  #23  
Old 09-12-2017, 08:49 AM
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JonJay JonJay is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Battleground
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan View Post
It really depends on how you define "landing".

I returned to home base one day with wind 19G26 directly across the runway after tumbling over a college campus and airport hangars. I was able to taxi the plane back to the hangar under its own power but I would consider the end of the flight to be an "arrival" rather than a landing due to the interesting angles and noises associated with the event. As to whether it was a wheelie or three point the answer is "yes".

15K straight across requires the rudder to be fully deflected on my RV-6 if the nose is to be aligned with the dotted line.
15K is the number for my 6 as well (judged by wind sock not just reported) but I have made more than a few "arrivals" beyond that and managed to keep the airplane intact.
We are blessed with sturdy gear and a locking tailwheel, but it isn't going to be pretty if your not straight and you can't be straight if you run out of rudder.
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  #24  
Old 09-12-2017, 10:32 AM
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Sam Buchanan Sam Buchanan is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North Alabama
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A very experienced mature pilot told me years ago that "style points don't count with rowdy cross-wind landings, just keep the plane rolling the same direction as the center line".
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  #25  
Old 09-12-2017, 10:55 AM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Low Pass View Post
Bill - you have a -9, 150' wide runway, 30 kt wind... Just land across the runway!!
I don't think the tower would have liked that, but it was an option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnclimber View Post
With strong crosswind, and steep bank angle there is a serious risk of fuel starvation due to un-porting if you are on the low wing tank. So the fullest tank rule isn't always a good idea.

Prop will stop going over the fence, and you are left with a dead stick landing in a high-pucker situation.

Ask me how I know! ( But maybe the best Xwind landing I've ever made )

Roger
Crab and then slip at the end.
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Last edited by N941WR : 09-13-2017 at 08:01 PM.
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  #26  
Old 09-13-2017, 07:58 PM
mbauer mbauer is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Nikiski, AK
Posts: 85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David-aviator View Post
Open the cross wind envelope slowly, Mike.

Don't make decision based on what others have done. See what you feel comfortable with.

Everyone one of us has limitations, we need find what they are.

Certainly don't want to take on 25 knots just because someone else survived it.

FWITW never do it with any tail wind...that's like an 11th commandment.
Thank you for the sage advice!

New to the tail wheel and RV6. Have rented/flown C150, C152, C172, and a C175 converted to tail wheel, used to own a Cherokee 140, rented/flown Piper Warrior, Tomahawk, Seminole., Beech Duchess and a Money MK20 are other time builders.

Have landed the Cherokee with 60 deg @ 22kt30ktG, which wasn't that big of an issue. Find myself slowly building confidence, question was too see what I can expect as I learn more.

For now, if the gusts are more than 5kt difference, that is enough for me. Have lots of practice ahead to get really good.

Want to say Thank you to all for your input.

Best regards,
Mike Bauer
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  #27  
Old 09-14-2017, 10:20 AM
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N363RV N363RV is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Arlington, tx
Posts: 178
Default You are in alaska...

I see you are in alaska. Good advice. I fly to Colorado quite a bit and the winds are calm to ridiculous. You will likely have the same.

I got to know the RV back in texas and tried out the cross winds a little bit at a time. I also use flaps regardless of the crosswind, but I have also settled on using a crab most of the time too. In Ground effect, as I flare, I "straighten" it out. This has worked well in high winds. Gusting is a hit or miss scenario that requires some patience and being ok with going around 2 or 3 time or what ever it takes to get down. It is important to recognize you have settled into a tail wind too. It looks like you have a bunch of experience flying, so I'm betting you get it figured out pretty quick. Be safe and enjoy your RV. They are a lot of fun.
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  #28  
Old 09-15-2017, 12:03 AM
444TX 444TX is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 79
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I have 2500+ taildragger hours and in the RV8 feel very comfortable (watchfull but routine) with up to 15 direct crosswind. I will fly 15-20 gusting up to 25 routinely, but feel it should be handled with experience.

Learned to fly in a Cessna 140. My instructor, from Oklahoma, would train in high wind conditions and say "if you can't fly in this you can't fly in Oklahoma". So, crosswinds were a common training condition. Have landed with crosswinds in the 40's in the 8 and 180. Landing in these conditions can become necessary on long crosscountry trips, especially in the past (or New Mexico) with fewer in cockpit weather resources.

So, there are many tricks to crosswinds. Heavy winds requiring one to open the bag of tricks.

1. Forget the centerline. Everytime I here someone mention maintaining centerline during heavy crosswinds I know they have no real heavy crosswind experience. You cut the crosswind component by landing at an angle to the centerline. The heavier the wind the more angle can be cut. Touchdown at the corner of the runway and watchout for lights and signs. In any small GA plane there will be suprisingly little rollout. Do not add any airspeed on final, only add 1/2 the gust factor.
2. I prefer to crab into the roundout and dip the wing. Momentum will keep you tracking staight, but things must be timed to limit the time just above the runway to 1 or 2 seconds. Any longer will make it tougher to keep a drift from developing.
3. When learning to fly in crosswinds a forward slip all the way down final is a good way to judge rudder authority (or lack of), but as one gets more experienced the crab angle will do the same thing. With experience the angle will give a good indication if what is happpening. Usually it gets better the lower you get. You can kick into a slip once in a while, from a crab, to help judge the rudder travel needed. If using a long forward slip always be conscious of the fuel tank selected, having it on the high wing.
4. In the air the crosswind will drift you downwind. On the ground the crosswind will weathervane you into the wind. Both must be considered.
5. When taking off in a crosswind, all things being equal, always take the right cross wind. The right crosswind will take less right rudder, you may not have enough with a heavy left cross. This is especially true in the large tailed RV's and the 180. Start the roll lined up between the downwind side of the runway and the centerline, pointed down the runway. This will give more room for any possible weathervaning.
6. Taxing in heavy winds can be a real challenge. I have had to do a 270 degree turn to get off the runway. Always use correct control positions. Set the DG to the wind direction and visualize where the controls should be, this includes the elevator. Sometimes the elevator should be neutralized or even stick forward with a heavy wind from the rear.
7. Land on the downwind side of the runway. After touchdown the wind can weathervane the plane into the wind and there will be more room to let it go some. After touchdown drift will not be the problem.
8. Instead of slip or crab one can fly final at an angle into the wind. Timed correctly you go from the angle, into the roundout, to no drift, then touchdown. Takes good timng. Learned that from a high time cropduster pilot. Fun, but not for most.
9. Land on a taxiway if you have to. I never have landed on one, but should have taken off on one once.
10.Sneak up on heavier winds and build ones experience. They are nothing to be scared of, but require respect and experience. Get an experienced insructor.
11. The outcome should never be in question.

George Meketa
Rv8, Cessna 180, PIper PA12, N35 Bonanza (all at the same time)
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  #29  
Old 09-15-2017, 06:00 AM
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Low Pass Low Pass is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 444TX View Post
9. Land on a taxiway if you have to. I never have landed on one, but should have taken off on one once.
So you've been to Rock Springs, Wyoming, too? !

Seriously, your remarks are some of the best technique comments I've read on this board.
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Last edited by Low Pass : 09-15-2017 at 08:49 AM.
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  #30  
Old 09-15-2017, 07:41 AM
mtnclimber mtnclimber is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Nathrop Colorado
Posts: 60
Default Will give crab or angle approach a try

George, Excellent advice and summary. I always landed the Mooney with angle into the wind, and rolled out at the moment of touchdown.

The 9 and the 8 have so much rudder authority that I have been slipping from quite a ways out. I'll give the crab or angle approach a try. Our airport is KAEJ at Buena Vista Colorado at 8000 msl, and only a few miles east of the 14,000 foot peaks so cross winds get interesting.

Roger Bloomfield
N51BL RV8 90 hours
RV9A 400 hours
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