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Dan Lloyd RV-10 "Factual" report out...

Pretty damning report. I hope we can all learn some lessons from that report.
 
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I might need to reread it, but what really happened? I know the pilot did some stupid things. but what really caused the crash, I didn't catch it.
 
Like darn near EVERY accident report I've ever read...one break in the chain and the disaster may have been avoided. Wow, talk about a string of very bad decisions.

Of course, hindsight is 20/20.

RIP



Joe
 
I might need to reread it, but what really happened? I know the pilot did some stupid things. but what really caused the crash, I didn't catch it.


I think it is here:

"Multiple wires showed no evidence of having being connected prior to impact. Examination of the cableing connected to the electrical system's contactor relays, revealed that a cable was not secured to its corresponding terminal on the contactor relay.

Further examination revealed that the terminal bore no evidence of dimpling or indentation and its interior surface was sooted."

&

"the engine required a constant and stable source of electricity to operate the fuel injection, fuel pumps, and engine control computer. "
 
I think it is here:

"Multiple wires showed no evidence of having being connected prior to impact. Examination of the cableing connected to the electrical system's contactor relays, revealed that a cable was not secured to its corresponding terminal on the contactor relay.

Further examination revealed that the terminal bore no evidence of dimpling or indentation and its interior surface was sooted."

&

"the engine required a constant and stable source of electricity to operate the fuel injection, fuel pumps, and engine control computer. "

That pretty much confirms reports from last year, not long after the crash.
 
..."the engine required a constant and stable source of electricity to operate the fuel injection, fuel pumps, and engine control computer. "

and propeller.

Couple that to a low time pilot in a fast and slick plane with complex systems. Toss in an unproven engine, propeller, airframe combination and the outcome was almost a foregone conclusion.

The only "good" outcome of this accident, if there is one, was that it happened before he loaded up his family and left for Boston. My heart goes out to all of them.
 
RV-10 crash

I "liked" the part about:
"A trim tab for the rudder was discovered to be attached with duct tape".

and this: "the airplane's first flight occurred with Clecos (temporary fasteners) holding the upper aft portion of the cowling in place and with a passenger onboard."

How in the world did he get anybody to sign off on this thing!??!?
 
I think it is here:

"Multiple wires showed no evidence of having being connected prior to impact. Examination of the cableing connected to the electrical system's contactor relays, revealed that a cable was not secured to its corresponding terminal on the contactor relay.

Further examination revealed that the terminal bore no evidence of dimpling or indentation and its interior surface was sooted."

&

"the engine required a constant and stable source of electricity to operate the fuel injection, fuel pumps, and engine control computer. "



thanks brian, the whole read just made me chill all over. the rules are there for a reason, for YOU. brake them and it will hurt is all that can be said. There were so many variables, eeeek. experimental engine, glass panel, eek. so many things that could go wrong.
 
Flying, for professionals and amateurs alike, is SELF CRITIQUING.

We all suffer the consequences of accidents like this that go up in lights in the Regulator's view. Esp now with the Fed screwing down tight on everything.

Freaking unbelievable.
 
Interesting Read

As a current builder there are lessons to be learned from this for me. The positive that that I take from this tragedy is that there was only one fatality and not more had it occurred later.
 
I "liked" the part about:
"A trim tab for the rudder was discovered to be attached with duct tape".
...
There are plenty of scary things in the report but that isn't one of them to me. My rudder trim tab is currently held on with carpet tape after verifying the size by attaching it with duct tape. I see nothing wrong with that and if it falls off it doesn't cause a problem.

Of course I'm assuming that they are just referring to a fixed wedge of some sort. Initially I too thought they were talking about mounting some sort of adjustable trim tab with tape.

This report does seem to end prematurely. I'm not sure we are getting the whole thing.
 
This report does seem to end prematurely. I'm not sure we are getting the whole thing.

Remember, this is simply the "Factual Reprot" - not the final determiniation of cause, so I wouldn't expect it to have a bow on it and tell us what they think was the proximate or root casue.
 
Fast and slick?

I have an RV-10 that I have flown for the last 250 hours.

I simply disagree with the comment that the airplane is fast and slick. I find it to be one of the nicest, well behaved airplanes I have ever flown.

After my first landing (which I sqweaked on), I walked away thinking I was an awesome pilot. After more than two hundred more, I now know for certain that it is the airplane and not the pilot.

The RV-10 is not a difficult or unforgiving airplane for a pilot of average ability (IMHO).

I think the accident was caused by some poor decision making before the airplane ever left the ground. While I haven't done any of the things listed in that write up, I have done a few things as a pilot over the years that in hindsight were poorly thought out. My guess is most everybody has.
 
no stone throwing. . .

I do not want to sound like I am second guessing our brother's decisions but it is apparent in reading the report that this particular builder needed more guidance in the build process than he got. Apparently he did not fully understand what he was putting together on some of his systems when building the airplane.

Then, once the airplane was flying, he did not have a good enough grasp of what he needed to do to fly the airplane. He needed much much more guidance on how to fly his new airplane. He was clearly not prepared to fly this airplane even after flying it for several months.

It was apparent to me from the emails discussed to his friend(s) that he was truly wanting someone to help him understand how to manage his airplane. The sad truth though is that he appeared to lack the self-discipline to restrain himself from flying his new airplane until he fully understood how to do so, and, more to the point, until it was ready to be flown.

This report indicates to me that this builder/pilot did not understand his airplane. From his own words: "Eww I am an idiot!! I had no clue. . .Definitely a case of money versus intelligence. . ."

In my reflections on what I do in unfamiliar situations; I always want to understand what I am involved in at all times. In order to do so one can ask the questions of: "WHO, WHAT, WHERE, WHEN, HOW". However, none of those questions every fully explains the situation. It isn't until one asks WHY that one can fully understand what is going on. If anyone is asking WHO did WHAT, WHERE, WHEN and HOW, they still do not fully understand the situation until they finish their query's with WHY it was done.

WHY is the reason some engineer far smarter than me designed a component in such a way, WHY is the reason a pilot much smarter than me teaches a particular procedure in a particular situation. WHY is the reason the elders in my life much smarter than me tell me I should make sure to look for XYZ when I do ABC, WHY is the reason so many have posted on this forum "ASK ME HOW I KNOW!"

"Paul the Overlord" has posted a thread (I Promise To. . .) detailing what his criteria for being prepared for flying is.

In reference to that thread: This accident is a reminder of my promise to make sure I understand what I am doing in the airplane before attempting to fly. If I do not feel comfortable with my ability to control the aircraft in a normal flying environment I am not going to go up in it. An example of this promise to myself is landing other people's airplane. I do not ever allow myself to land someone else's airplane if I am riding with them and they have allowed me to control the airplane. I have had several pilots tell me that I should go ahead and land the airplane. I always refuse, if offered, to land an unfamiliar airplane! My lack of experience with how an unfamiliar airplane behaves keeps me from wanting to put myself in a situation where the airplane could surprise me with something I was not aware of or prepared for when down low with little or no avenue for escape.

I am taking this from reading the report: Be wary of the things I do in my building and in my flying. If I do not know something ask someone who does know. And ask them WHY!
 
keeping it simple

My heart goes out to this guy & his family.

I think he was just trying to do too much, too fast.

His plane was complicated; engine, prop, avionics could easily overwhelm a pilot during testing. A stack of manuals several feet high:eek:

I'm building my RV9A simple. Fixed pitch prop, lycoming 150HP engine, std
6-pack, etc. I'm still just a student pilot (52 hrs) and, by the time my plane is
ready to fly, I'll probably still will have less than 100 hrs.

My flight instructor & good friend has agreed to do the initial flight testing.
He has tons of time (almost 7000 hrs) in many different planes.

We are not rushing this thing. It'll be ready when its ready.

This in my $.02 FWIW.

Dave
working on finish kit
 
Sure a lot of reference to posts and emails in there that are now public record. No surprise and probably very helpful for putting the puzzle together.
 
I have an RV-10 that I have flown for the last 250 hours.

I simply disagree with the comment that the airplane is fast and slick. I find it to be one of the nicest, well behaved airplanes I have ever flown...

I was the one who said the -10 is fast and slick. If you only have 225 hours TT and that time is in Cessnas and Cherokees, then the -10 is FAST and SLICK.

Granted, I thought the -10 was very easy to fly but then I have a good bit more time and a in a much greater verity of planes than he did.

Add to that the complexity of dealing with an EFIS he did not know or understand and a prop that you must adjust every time you make a power change; then any minor issue could cause him a major speed excursion.

I'm not saying that is what caused this accident, the NTSB will do that.
 
Fast and Slick

I thought a Cessna 182 was fast and slick when all I had ever flown were 152's. It's all prospective.

As far as the report - WOW.
 
I agree, the RV10 is not much different than flying a Grumman- hardly a handful but you need to be competent in both. Take some training if you are not comfortable. Practice engine out procedures lots and lock best glide speed in your brain.

The propeller system as it was here is no different in operation than the IVO I run or an electric MT in manual mode (often used due to slow pitch response). Lack of electrical power simply means pitch is fixed wherever it is.

Lack of electrical power with no independently wired backup is a big deal as it states in the report- no fuel pumps, no injectors, no ignition. The experimental engine, gearbox and prop were not direct causes here- no electrons was- the same root cause of so many accidents using EFI in aircraft.

So many things were overlooked, disregarded and so many regulations broken starting right at the initial inspection before the first flight... it is simply staggering. I've read hundreds of accident reports in the last 30 years but never anything like this.

If we can learn anything from this, it is to boldly speak up and save a friend if you ever see something like this happening in the future. If speaking up involves alerting the authorities, do it. This might have saved Dan. Hurt feelings are minor compared to being dead.

Finally, Osh will be there next year. I've told a number of people with new airplanes not to rush heading to Osh until everything is 100%. Why would you want to do that?
 
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My rudder trim tab is currently held on with carpet tape after verifying the size by attaching it with duct tape. I see nothing wrong with that and if it falls off it doesn't cause a problem.

Of course I'm assuming that they are just referring to a fixed wedge of some sort. Initially I too thought they were talking about mounting some sort of adjustable trim tab with tape.

Two things in your post continue to bug me to know end. Number one, "if it falls off it doesn't cause a problem". WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE ON THE GROUND LARRY? Its that attitude that continues to plague the GA community. We are perceived as a bunch of arrogant airplane snobs by many, with too much money and too many toys. Everyone of us have a responsibility to the people we fly over to insure NOTHING falls off of our airplane and that our airplanes are safe when leaving the ground. Number two, "I'm assuming". I could rant about assumptions for hours, but I think the point is clear!

Nothing personal, but your choice of words hit a nerve that will never go away with me. Flying is a privlidge and an honor, IMHO.
 
It was apparent to me from the emails discussed to his friend(s) that he was truly wanting someone to help him understand how to manage his airplane. The sad truth though is that he appeared to lack the self-discipline to restrain himself from flying his new airplane until he fully understood how to do so, and, more to the point, until it was ready to be flown.

This report indicates to me that this builder/pilot did not understand his airplane. From his own words: "Eww I am an idiot!! I had no clue. . .Definitely a case of money versus intelligence. . ."

Very well said.

Sorry to say this, I mean no slams on Dan, but reading the report it seems to be a study in what not to do.

Should be required reading for anyone planning of flying a new plane.
 
When I first started building my RV7a, I wanted things simple, so to speak. I put in the steam gauges, why, familiarization. I had about 800hrs at the time I started the build and I only flew steam. I put in steam, I also got turned to an EFIS. I still put in the steam, why, that first flight. I'm really glad I did, the steam was rock solid reliable. Sure the efis worked, but my eyes went right to the steam. If I had to do it all over again I wouldn't change a thing. I flew my first flight right over the field and, I left the prop flat, why, I never had one of those either, I just used the throttle and flew around slow. Fine with me, first flight, unfamiliar plane. Than I had troubles, the alert came up on the efis, no audio, Voltage low, 8.0 volts. Oh man, I did a quick stall, within what everybody else claimed, no radio, I came in for landing, tower was expecting anything, all went well, nice clean landing. Found too low of a fuse in the field. Landed and tore the whole plane apart, found nothing. Cool. Main thing is we need to be cautious of what we are doing. Don't put a bunch of variables that can get you into trouble into your airplane. Be simple. Add stuff later after you get to know the airplane.
 
"Eww I am an idiot!! I had no clue. . .Definitely a case of money versus intelligence. . ."

Unfortunately, this seems to sum up the whole report for me.

"Should be required reading for anyone planning of flying" or building "a new plane." Well said, Mike. My thoughts exactly.
 
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Sure a lot of reference to posts and emails in there that are now public record. No surprise and probably very helpful for putting the puzzle together.



ANYTHING YOU'VE POSTED ON THE INTERNET IS PUBLIC RECORD.

emails are usually private, as long as the other person is trustworthy to keep them that way.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Two things in your post continue to bug me to know end. Number one, "if it falls off it doesn't cause a problem". WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE ON THE GROUND LARRY? Its that attitude that continues to plague the GA community. We are perceived as a bunch of arrogant airplane snobs by many, with too much money and too many toys. Everyone of us have a responsibility to the people we fly over to insure NOTHING falls off of our airplane and that our airplanes are safe when leaving the ground. Number two, "I'm assuming". I could rant about assumptions for hours, but I think the point is clear!

Nothing personal, but your choice of words hit a nerve that will never go away with me. Flying is a privlidge and an honor, IMHO.


a simple aluminum trim tab falling off an airplane is not going to do anything. You might as well sue all car dealerships for their pollution from all the balloons they release on accident. Those are 1000xs more often and "dangerous" than a piece of sheet Al.

flying should not be a "privilege". It should be a right, a method of freely moving about our country. The same with automobiles, bicycles, and pedestrian traffic. I'm not saying it can't be restricted for safety.
 
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flying should not be a "privilege". It should be a right, a method of freely moving about our country. The same with automobiles, bicycles, and pedestrian traffic. I'm not saying it can't be restricted for safety.

Hear! Hear!

Seems like they are trying to turn everything into a privilege these days!

Hans
 
..."if it falls off it doesn't cause a problem". WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE ON THE GROUND LARRY? Its that attitude that continues to plague the GA community...
I have thought about it. It is maybe a half ounce of wood. It is hard to think of a scenario where it could hurt anybody. Well, maybe if they were looking straight up and it hit them right in the eye, a billions to one shot. There are lots of more likely things that could be dangerous to someone on the ground from an airplane. I think of that every time I fly over a place like the LA basin.
 
I have rudder trim taped to my tail for more then two years.

A piece of Styrofoam, held on with packing tape. One of these days I'll fiberglass over it.

I won't hurt anyone if it comes off. Either me in the plane or you on the ground.:)

Kent
 
Wow! I'm unfamiliar with this pilot, but it reads like he was a young guy. The part that really bothers me is that he took his wife up in a plane that was full of squawks. Maybe my CFI was unusual, but she would periodically remind me that you can get killed in an airplane. I really think that some folks go through all the training and never quite believe that it can be dangerous.

Regarding the final cause, my money is on the use of a "big channel lock" to crimp the battery cables.
 
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Issues

I suspect that the report was highly sanitized by the time it was published. Seems that Mr. E got an easy ride despite knowing that he was very involved in the installation and early flights. (info from posts a couple of years ago) From this information, he had to know the AC did not have 40 hours of time when it went to Florida.

Also, the log books were clearly falsified. Very sad.

It is also clear that Dan had plenty of guidance and advice but didn't listen to it. Again, I'll be there are many details we didn't see.

Finally, WHO SIGNED THIS PLANE OFF FOR FLIGHT?

I'm very sad that a life was lost. But we all have to be a little tougher when we see something wrong. I'd rather have a friend and acquaintance upset with me but alive than a dead friend and regrets we didn't intervene.

Lets all learn from this sad and tragic event.
 
Sad story... It's hard to read something like this when you know you could get in a situation like his...

Moral of the story for me(this is for me only, I am not implying anything)
-Get a well proven engine configuration (carb, mags, etc)
-Get steam gauge along with the EFIS
-Get a fixed prop
-Take it slow, don't be in a hurry!

In the past few months I've been going toward the "latest greatest" in all my plans...(Full EFIS, C/S Prop, alternative engines or EFI & EI) but I must realize I only have 100hr in my logbook and haven't flown anything but 172s... I can make upgrades later, when I'm confortable flying it... The first CFI I had one told me : the worst time to be a pilot is 50h after you get your PPL and 50h after you get you IFR rating... 50h is just fine to become confortable and when you stop being "scared", accident happens..

Too many times I've told myself : "****... that was wayyyy too close"

I sold my motorcycle for this reason... respect the airplane/car/motorcycle/whatever. It has the power to kill you...

Be safe and live to talk about it! ;)
 
Accidents like this affect all of us!

Here in Las Vegas, we're dealing with the aftermath of willful non-compliance with Phase I restrictions from the Velocity that crashed here (VGT) last summer. It may be expedient for the individual, but we all suffer from the aftermath when things go badly. Now we're fighting an airport director who's trying to restrict Experimental aircraft operations from VGT. If nothing else, more distractions from the enjoyment of GA flight.

On another note, in spite of all the insane issues discussed in the report, it appears the plane was still functional as a glider. I don't know the terrain at the crash site, but I'd guess there was still a good opportunity to live by continuing to fly the aircraft.

Seb Trost
RV-7A 340 hours
Boulder City, NV
 
From my experience testing an auto engine, PSRU, electric adjustable prop, EFIS system, electric ignition, EFI and a engine computer is extremely difficult. There is a lot to watch and you ALWAYS have to have a landing site picked out before any trouble starts. There is a lot to learn and baby steps are really the only way to do it. You cannot be in a hurry. It will get done when it is done. I have 30 days to fly off 30 hours to get to OSH. If it happens it happens if not there is always Sun-n-Fun. I keep Dan's tow bar in my airplane just to remind myself to make sure everything is right before I go flying. Everybody should have multiple people inspect their airplanes. Slow and easy wins the race here.
 
I suspect that the report was highly sanitized by the time it was published. Seems that Mr. E got an easy ride despite knowing that he was very involved in the installation and early flights. (info from posts a couple of years ago) From this information, he had to know the AC did not have 40 hours of time when it went to Florida.

Also, the log books were clearly falsified. Very sad.

It is also clear that Dan had plenty of guidance and advice but didn't listen to it. Again, I'll be there are many details we didn't see.

Finally, WHO SIGNED THIS PLANE OFF FOR FLIGHT?

I'm very sad that a life was lost. But we all have to be a little tougher when we see something wrong. I'd rather have a friend and acquaintance upset with me but alive than a dead friend and regrets we didn't intervene.

Lets all learn from this sad and tragic event.

Seems clear from this report that many people and friends knew lots of things Dan was doing were scary/ questionable well before the accident happened. Nobody sat him down for a good talking to though some at least tried to steer him towards some better decision making.
 
I've got a flying buddy that I had to resort to his wife, in order for him to repair a major fault. He just brushed it off as a to do list. His wife grounded the plane when she hung up the phone. Thought I'd catch he## , next time I spoke to him, not a mention.
Ron
 
I've got a flying buddy that I had to resort to his wife, in order for him to repair a major fault. He just brushed it off as a to do list. His wife grounded the plane when she hung up the phone. Thought I'd catch he## , next time I spoke to him, not a mention.
Ron

You should be commended for taking the problem to the next level. Plenty of builders knew Dan was in deep trouble, and said nothing.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=31377

I'm not pointing fingers at anybody, but the facts are what they are. You can read the FAA final report and see a guy in a hurry, or you can read the final report and see many guys standing on the sideline whispering to each other and doing nothing.

We all make mistakes. Let's learn from this tragic situation and move forward with a renewed sense of who we, are and what we do.

I need to go flying, Geico out.
 
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Something for everyone...

I've been reading aviation accident reports for 30 yrs, but this one truly takes the cake. If anybody sees themself at any point in this accident report, from any standpoint, that should be cause for reflection and concern.

Meanwhile, you can try to provide constructive input to some people, only to simply be found guilty of being the messenger, negative, a pessimist, take your pick. And with little other result. Happens on this board, Matronics, at fly ins, within your fly in community, etc., so after a while you simply keep your opinion to yourself unless asked. Notwithstanding, some would do well to pay more attention to resources like Van's, Lycoming, Hartzell, other tried and tested OEM's, and less attention to the better mousetrap crowd, AND their marketing arms. If you start thinking you know more than the major OEM's, the FAA, even your FAA AME, you probably don't. Most of the time you will get by with your behavior, but not always as we read here, notwithstanding the source and veracity of the quoted emails, the provider's likely vested interest in the outcome of this investigation, etc..

If the shoe fits, wear it, and learn from these types of events. Keep your chances of becoming the subject of an NTSB report at a minimum.
 
Finally, WHO SIGNED THIS PLANE OFF FOR FLIGHT?

Darwin:

That info is PUBLIC record and can be obtained by anyone who pays a fee to the FAA. DAR's can get his info but they pay for it. They do get a discount above what the general public pays.

If you go to the FAA Registry and look up the N number, there is a link in the middle of the page. Follow that link and you are asked for the N number and Serial number. You then select CD or Paper. The CD is $10 and the Paper is $2.10. A DAR can get a link to download the files in PDF for $3.50.

All I will say is that a DAR did NOT do the initial airworthiness inspection on this aircraft. It was done by an employee of the Allegheny FSDO EA-03. Yes I paid the $3.50 to find this out as your question caught my interest. I do not intend to be the one to publish the info but did just give out the "how to" get the info.
 
Most of us have and will make honest mistakes. One of them should never be to let another builder off the hook when they see something wrong. And not even just another builder, but any pilot doing something incorrect.

Something as simple as a pilot calling final and not putting on a landing light so the plane at the hold short line can see them.....tell the pilot on final to put his light on. When someone is telling you over and over again that something is not right and you don't put your foot down on them, shame on you.

We all have a responsibility to watch out for each other. There are so many mistakes in Dan's chain that are glaringly obvious. Poor construction, a AB-DAR sign-off that should never have taken place, a new pilot flying something untested without having the skills to fly let alone being a test pilot, consciously and willingly breaking the FAR's over and over again, not listening to anyone's advice, and an attitude of infallibility.

I did not know Dan and I feel very bad for his family and friends that they have lost him and this is going to sound bad but it must be said. Dan did some really stupid things and until we are willing to admit that anyone alive or now dead could do stupid deadly stuff, we will continue to repeat making life ending choices. We need to learn that being stupid will kill us. Someone asked in an earlier post what it was that caused the accident and it is painfully obvious.
 
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DAR & inspection

In regards to the DAR and inspection.

A DAR isn't going to catch everything. Only what's obvious. It's the same in house building and inspectors. Much of the wiring problems most likely happened after inspection. I used duct tape to hold a wood wedge on my rudder after inspection............because I needed to fly the plane first, to see what was required. After 40 years in the heating and air conditioning business, I can testify that some duct tapes can easily withstand 200+ mph, so that is not a concern. It now has a metal tab riveted on, as I don't have an offset vert. stab to start with.

Never the less, this report goes a long way in reminding us of what not to do, when it comes to our airplanes.

L.Adamson -- RV6A

ammended -----------forgot about the cleco's ................ugh...
 
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I have thought about it. It is maybe a half ounce of wood. It is hard to think of a scenario where it could hurt anybody. Well, maybe if they were looking straight up and it hit them right in the eye, a billions to one shot.

Larry, I'm sure you exaggerate. Where you spend the vast majority of your hours flying, there might be a billion to one shot at hitting a rattlesnake or coyote in the eye, but I'm certain the odds are far, far less of hitting a person in the eye. (Somewhere in the realm of a person being hit by a meteorite, I suspect.) I had to smile at the initial post taking you to task. Clearly someone who flies in a different part of the country! ;)
 
wow...

All I have to say is that this takes the cake...(as just stated previously by Mr Link McGarity).. and I'm sorry to say I see some other people doing some of the same stuff and they think it's ok to do so. All my students will be reading this on my required reading list. There is a lot I would like to say but I'm not going to. I will rely on other people reading the entire report and coming to the same conclusion I came to. Someone once said "Aviation's loss is Aviation's gain"... it took me a second to think that through.... but it rings true in certain cases. I cannot really believe a functioning human being did this. It's too late to fix it... but I'm going to do my best to prevent this from ever happening again.
Best
Brian Wallis
 
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Wrong kind of guidance

Several have suggested that guidance was needed, but I think the real problem here was too much of the wrong kind of guidance. I'm asking myself if this accident would've occurred had the builder not had the support of the engine supplier. What I envision is a more thoughtful, albeit slower, build. Picture Mr. Lloyd plugging along SLOWLY on the project, scratching his head for days like we all do trying to find the very best spot for some widget. I guess what I'm trying to say is that self-doubt is what keeps these planes safe. We all chuckle at the posts from some newbie agonizing over his first smiley and whether it'll bring the plane down, but I also get the warm fuzzies from it. When we call Van's with these concerns, we usually get the "it's a tractor" speech and this is partly true; however, tractors don't crash into stuff at triple digit speeds. I think in this particular accident, the builder/pilot had doubts, but was strongly influenced by the fact that those he perceived as far more knowledgeable and experienced were not concerned.
 
I would have hoped that a first flight...

In regards to the DAR and inspection.

A DAR isn't going to catch everything. Only what's obvious.
.....

Never the less, this report goes a long way in reminding us of what not to do, when it comes to our airplanes.

L.Adamson -- RV6A

...with clecoes holding a cowling on would count as "obvious", as well as loose bolts in the elevator control system...:rolleyes:
 
I think this was touched on by a couple of people here- a power loss does not necessarily have to lead to a fatality but so often does. How many times have we read about these types of crashes here on VAF or in the NTSB reports?

In this case it is not clear if the aircraft was on fire prior to impact so we may never know if Dan was incapacitated by smoke or fire in flight. The angle of impact suggests that the aircraft was not in controlled flight and might have stalled. Did he get too slow or did fire or smoke make things impossible? I remember sat photos showing the area being fairly wide open.

A good friend was killed last June in a Sube powered CompAir on its first flight. I assisted the TSB in the investigation. Power loss over the runway caused by no electrons again. Pilot attempted to land on the crossing runway it would seem from the video evidence, nose level, banked- stall/spin. There was no reason for my friend to be killed that day had he simply lowered the nose and landed straight ahead. There were no obstacles anywhere near his flight path. Very sad. Sadder still to see what this did to his poor family at the funeral.

Please, please people, lower the nose if the prop ever stops at low altitude. Make sure it is instinctive though repeated training. Nothing else will matter in a few seconds if you fail to do this and stall.
 
...with clecoes holding a cowling on would count as "obvious", as well as loose bolts in the elevator control system...:rolleyes:

You're right. I forgot about the cleco's. The elevator control nuts are maybe's, that could have come loose, after the fact.

L.Adamson
 
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