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What is the most time consuming-

TS Flightlines

TS Flightlines

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part of your building process? Making little brackets, braces, and pieces, or large items like wings? From a "non-builder" -yet-, this information might be of some benefit to those that are thinking about building. We see some planes flying in a year, and some in several years. Just wanting to know.
Tom
 
The nasty fiberglass stuff.

You know, they make whole airplanes out of that ****!
 
The canopy over all as far as the most effort per unit time as related to specific progress on given item/component....

Oh, and which ever you have ... the other is easier:eek:
 
For me it's been part deburring. A close second was metal prep for priming (I followed the clean, etch, alodine method). That became so laborious that as my project has progressed I prime less and less, and don't do all of the prep steps anymore.

There's very little in the way of fabrication (at least on the -10), but in cases where I've gone "off" plans to add a mod, that has soaked up considerable time, even for a simple antenna doubler.
 
Doing anything that's not in the plans...

Doing anything that's not in the plans just burns time. Any kind of modification seems to take an age.

It was also surprising how long it took to get to go from a "finished airframe" to a flying aeroplane. Mid you we did fit an alternative engine and that just burned time (probably at least one year of our 6-year build).

Dave
 
The most time I've burned is just waiting for someone to come help me rivet those places that require two people. ;) Nice thing is there is always something else to work on while you are waiting. Always have a couple of things to work on and next thing you know, you'll be done with that kit.

Building the wing tanks seemed to take forever, but I took my time on purpose and got them all sealed up and riveted with a minimum of proseal mess.

If you choose to prime everything, then that will also take up some additional time. Making sure you have a decent window of weather and time to spray all the parts can delay progress. I had a huge pile of fuselage parts that I finally got to prime and paint. Now I'm back to making progress on the build.
 
TS Flightlines said:
....of you pre-make your small parts?
Click to expand...

No, I didn't fab anything until it was required by the plans. I would and still do, look ahead in the plans to find all the parts that get made out of a specific material, say 3/4"x3/4" angle to establish a cutting schedule to ensure that I had enough raw material to make everything and so I didn't grab the wrong piece of stock.
 
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I think that the answer to the original question is "it depends on the builder". I doubt that Dan H even breaks a sweat as he flies through fiberglass, whereas it represents a significant portion of other folk's build time. As a Tech Counselor, I have seen many projects go fallow when they look like airplanes, but need the systems installed - that seems to be a big stalling point for many, whereas I just zip right through plumbing and wiring. I can do a glass panel harness and electrical system pretty quick - it;s just how my brain works.

The big trick is to find out early what slows YOU down by working on a little bit of everything at once. Don't leave the stuff that slows you down until the end - the chances are good you'll never finish. I like to work on all the projects that make up and airplane in parallel, spreading the stuff I dislike out among the things I enjoy. Works for me at least!

Paul
 
baffles

The engine cooling baffles!!!!!!!!!! Put them on, mark, take them off, grind, put them on, mark, take them off, grind, put them on, mark, take them off, grind.............................................
 
Dave_Boxall said:
Doing anything that's not in the plans just burns time. Any kind of modification seems to take an age.
Click to expand...
This is VERY true! Just adding the throttle quadrant added about 40 hours because I had to figure out how to do it. I could do it again in about two hours. Would I do it again, if it took me 40 hours, heck yes!

Dave_Boxall said:
It was also surprising how long it took to get to go from a "finished airframe" to a flying aeroplane. Mid you we did fit an alternative engine and that just burned time (probably at least one year of our 6-year build).

Dave
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In talking with many builders, this is where they slow down and stop. Some builders complain about the wiring because it looks like you are not making any progress. However, I drew up my schematic and checked each wire off as I installed and tested. So, I was making progress and I could tell by the checkmarks on my schematic I was moving along, it never slowed me down.

Auburntsts said:
No, I didn't fab anything until it was required by the plans...
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When I pre-made parts, I would put them away so I could find them when the time was right. Sure enough, when the right time came, I couldn't find them until after I made the replacement parts. I'm not thinking there was any time savings in there.

However, when I would get tired of working on one thing, I would do something else. I remember building the seats out of sequence and not back-to-back (no pun intended.). I just needed to rivet something, so I made a seat back.

Fiberglass might as well have been from outer space when I started on my RV. A couple of the local canard builders showed me how to work with the stuff and I?m at peace with it now. It is really kind of cool to work with.

Just remember, none of it flies until all of it flies.
 
One other thing...

After I ordered my tail kit and before it arrived, I visited a local -9A builder and asked him, "What was the most difficult task?"

His reply still stands true, "Whatever comes next."
 
Realizing something wasn't right and developing the right fix.

There are often many fixes that work. Determining what is the correct way to make adjustments to something that doesn't go together right, especially if you are not an experienced builder.
 
Understanding What To Do

I'm only finishing the wings, but for me it's been understanding what to do. If there are two of an item, the first takes 6 hours and the second takes 30 minutes. My time consumer has been a combination of reading the plans and instructions and gathering the pieces and understanding what I'm making and how and where it fits. I just hope I don't forget everything I've learned if I'm lucky enough to get to build a second RV!
 
TS Flightlines said:
of you pre-make your small parts?
Click to expand...

This was actually one of the learning benefits. When the project was first started, I cringed every time the instructions/plans said "fabricate". In the end, you just pick up a piece of aluminum and knock it out, no big deal.
If I ever build another one, I will have a small bending brake.

And yes, THE most time consuming was anytime you went off script.
 
custom mods added significant time. Non standard parts did too. But I found I wasted a lot of time trying to make decisions and then worrying about doing certain tasks.

so to speed things up:
1. Make a list of want to you the end product to be NOW and stick to it.
2. when you get to a task like canopy cutting or baffles...Just DO it!
 
What is the most time consuming

TS Flightlines said:
part of your building process? Making little brackets, braces, and pieces, or large items like wings? From a "non-builder" -yet-, this information might be of some benefit to those that are thinking about building. We see some planes flying in a year, and some in several years. Just wanting to know.
Tom
Click to expand...

If it's done right.......... I'd say the engine cowling. Seemed like I spent 50 hours on mine after it was finished! :)
 
Deburring and dimpling

If they are not the most time consuming then at least they seem that way. If it takes me an hour to assemble and match-drill an assembly, then it probably takes another 3 hours to take it apart, clean up all the edges and deburr the holes. I don't find dimpling structure so bad, where I can use the squeezer, but doing skins on the C-frame can be grueling.
 
Buy Van's anyway...

Without a doubt, the most time consuming single thing about the entire kit is dealing with the Acid-Headed lack of order & organization in the parts list, drawings & instructions. This is coming from someone who added 2 aux tanks & is doing an alternative engine installation.

Having said that, odds are high that most of the other mfgrs' kits would be worse, & the finished product probably wouldn't be as capable.

Charlie
 
Well,

It used to be firing up the W*nd*ws computer to go onto Dan Checkoway or Walter Tondu's most excellent sites to figure out how that piece can possibly fit to that one.

Then I got a Mac and it all became very quick......... :D

During the 7 build, I guess the worst bits were, in no particular order

Pinholes

Pinholes

Pinholes

Baffles

Cowling

and finally

Remembering what we had temporarily assembled when it was nearly finished :(

The 8 is going to be much slicker - interior paint now, make bits, fit them, move on.

Everyone has a different Nemesis, my suggestion is to fully utilise these Forums, ask questions - except for primer - just don't, OK.

Mike
 
The best thing would be to have two or three airplanes going together at the same time. And I mean doing the same steps. That way when you need to fabricate a part it takes 1/4 the time to knock out a couple more at the same time. A friend and I bought two Nanchangs and had to put them together and fabricate a bunch of stuff. Each thing required less than half the time on the second one.
Most time consuming thing on my 7 was the canopy. Followed by firewall forward. After doing mine i can knock out a set of baffling or fit a cowl in no time now. Don
 
Panel.

Panel Design..design..redesign..revise..correct.
Obtain actual stuff, which is different than what you planned (a deal y'know).
Redesign a couple of times.
Create DC power schematics
Create avionics schematics.
Start wiring, more wiring. It NEVER ends! Arghh. There is alway some wire I can't run yet because of this or that.

Its not a skills issue. I am not cowed by wiring, BUT I would GLADLY make aluminum chips on the floor rather than running a single wire. Its just the way I am.

I think that the panel is by definition an "off script" area as noted earlier in the thread. And I do agree that off script is the definition of time eater.
 
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Jaypratt said:
THE Most time consuming hardest is the wheel pants...:mad:
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Jay, this is a very astute observation. However I wonder why very few builders nominate the wheel pants as being time consuming. I guess the answer is that very few builders put the proper time into them to get them rigged and fitting properly.

I started a thread a few months back about a friend's RV6A that had a consistently sudden wing drop at stall. I was surprised at how many builders reported the same problem and described it as "normal" RV behaviour when I know that it is not (I flew the factory built RV6A during transition training with Mike Seager and it did not have a wing drop at stall....neither power on or power off).

I have therefore concluded that many builders do not have reasonable alignment on many of their fibreglass components including wheel pants, gear fairings, intersection fairing, and wing tips.

The misalignment of these items causes drag and reduces top speed, and it also induces roll (the common "heavy wing" in hands-off flight) and yaw (ball not centred in feet-off flight).

The problem is that it is very time consuming and tedious to properly set up these items to minimise drag. And coming towards the end of the project they come up at a time when many builders are becoming impatient and pushing to get finished.

The wheel pants (and gear fairings) are one of those items that can be thrown together in a few days....but to set them up properly, neatly, symmetrically and with minimal drag is a BIG job, particularly on the nosedragger with the extra fairings.
 
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