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Plane Ownership & Complacency

9GT

Well Known Member
Patron
I see this often since I spend so much time now at the airport hanger working on my -9A. (KGDW is a very nice rural airport but has little activity) I see so many pilots who own their own planes do a VERY limited pre-flight inspection, if they even bother to do one at all! Last weekend on Sunday took the cake for me. I could not believe what I had witnessed. The owner drove in, opened his hanger, pulled out his plane, (not an EXP), closed his hanger up, hopped in, started his engine and immediately began to taxi. He did not even bother to use the taxi-way. Cut across the grass to the runway and just took off. No pre-flight inspection, no run-up or mag check,,,,nothing! Not even a radio call! About an hour later an incoming plane announces his position and intentions and advises their is a second incoming plane with inoperative radio, his buddy who took off earlier. I think a lot of people who own their own planes feel since they are the only ones flying the plane, they know it well enough to get away with this type of stuff. Wrong!
 
I saw something similar at a flight club a month ago. Was doing my flight review at a local flight training center and the chief instructor said that "they fill the planes with fuel every night and hangar them, so nobody ever sumps the tanks during a preflight". He also implied that if I wanted to do it, I had to bring my own equipment.
 
So they TEACH complacency!

I saw something similar at a flight club a month ago. Was doing my flight review at a local flight training center and the chief instructor said that "they fill the planes with fuel every night and hangar them, so nobody ever sumps the tanks during a preflight". He also implied that if I wanted to do it, I had to bring my own equipment.

I would be inclined to find another instructor!
 
I saw something similar at a flight club a month ago. Was doing my flight review at a local flight training center and the chief instructor said that "they fill the planes with fuel every night and hangar them, so nobody ever sumps the tanks during a preflight". He also implied that if I wanted to do it, I had to bring my own equipment.
That would pretty much end any working relationship with that instructor and the flight right there.
 
What I find most interesting about this kind of stuff is the group-think psychology at work. It seems like people often see someone else doing something, so they think "well I guess it must be okay," and start following suit. The story about the flight instructor saying there's no need to sump the tanks because the aircraft were in the hangar overnight and that's how we do it here, is amazing.

I think in flying it's good to try to learn what's generally prescribed as safe and why, and after that you need to have a resistant, independent streak that causes you to resist the urge to follow what someone else might be doing unless you reach your own, independent conclusion it's safe.

I was at a fairly active uncontrolled field, with a flight club and flight instruction going on. It seemed like most people coming into the field pretty much did the usual pattern entries you'd expect (downwind, crosswind, upwind). Then one of the guys in the club starting doing straight in approaches as a matter of routine. Now I realize they are legal, and you especially see them being done by commercial operations who are on a schedule and flying larger, high fuel-burning aircraft, and maybe by guys flying IFR approaches. However, IMO they are not really preferred or a good idea from a safety standpoint if not justified for some reason, particularly for people who are just on VFR pleasure flights with no real time constraints in small aircraft that don't burn much fuel.

I could have sworn that after that more and more people around the field were doing straight in approaches and it was becoming more common. Finally, one of the more senior guys who wasn't part of the club, and happened to be entering the pattern when this guy was doing one of his straight-in approaches, openly took the guy to task on the ground after landing, saying "we don't do straight in approaches here."

Obviously, he had no real right to dictate what another pilot could or couldn't do provided his behavior was within the law, but I thought it was good. We're fortunate to still have aviation regulations that provide us with some latitude and discretion. But that being the case, I think the need is there to speak out when appropriate and use social pressures to try to get people to conform with what's safe for everyone. Social influences can work both ways.
 
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Many times before a planned flight I will come out to the airport the evening before when I have no deadlines and no reason to rush so I can take my time to do a thorough preflight. Perhaps that's what this gentleman did as well.
 
Many times before a planned flight I will come out to the airport the evening before when I have no deadlines and no reason to rush so I can take my time to do a thorough preflight. Perhaps that's what this gentleman did as well.

You should always check the tank quantity, sump the tanks. And check the oil before a flight in the morning, even if a preflight is performed the night before.

Water can separate from even 100LL or condense in the tanks. Someone could get into your hangar and syphon your fuel, or worse. (I once had someone drain some fuel from my plane at a lunch stop.)
 
i should probably stop doing everything the day/night before a trip. Would not want anyone thinking i am not following the ?rules?.

Just because you did not witness something, it does not mean it did not happen.

These type of post don't add value to this community. If you are that bothered by what you saw, please go speak to that person.

Let us keep this positive and mininize the assumptions.
 
i should probably stop doing everything the day/night before a trip. Would not want anyone thinking i am not following the ?rules?.

Just because you did not witness something, it does not mean it did not happen.

These type of post don't add value to this community. If you are that bothered by what you saw, please go speak to that person.

Let us keep this positive and mininize the assumptions.

There is no assumption here. I know what saw. The value to the community here is remind fellow aviators to NOT get complacent with their aircraft. The very least someone should do is sump the tanks and do a mag check. In my book, a pre-flight the day before a flight does not carry over to the next day. I put that in the same catagory of "progressive condition inspections". ;)
 
Preflight

I agree with both Axel and David. Let's not jump the gun and criticize unless we know all the facts but if someone wants to act like an idiot who am I to stop them, "whatever melts your butter".... There are a lot of stupid people in the world, just don't be one of them.

On the other hand, probably not a good idea to get complacent and just jump in and go. These are not cars & we can't pull over to to the side of the road if we have an issue. I am the only one that flys my RV-4, it is kept in a single locked hangar and I know no one has touched it since the day before. But like most of you (or probably all) I do a thorough preflight every flight. One time I was working on the airplane, got it all back together, put all the tools away (or so I thought) and went home for the night. The next day I drove out to the hangar to go fly and guess what I found on the back seat? A small hammer and a set of pliers I used to gently tap the hinge pin back into the hinge that holds the back seat frame to the floor. Who knows what kind of damage they would have done to the canopy or the back of my head or worse.

Like Axel, I like to get the airplane ready the day before if I can but that doesn't mean you just "kick the tires, light the fires, brief on Gaurd, first one in the air is the leader".

Don't be too quick to judge but let's be smart out there........
 
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I thought the original post was just a "If the shoe fits ..." don't get complacent warning and that's not a bad warning if the shoe fits. If it doesn't, it doesn't ...
 
I was fortunate enough to have a CFI who also owned the local FBO and was AP/AI. He taught me how to do a thorough pre-flight, and not just by going through the motions, but explaining what are critical inspection points and why they need to be checked EVERY pre-flight. One of the points he made was the control jam nut(s) inspection in Vic's thread. He showed me how to check them & why they have a tendency to loosen during my first flight lesson. I just shake my head in bewilderment when Vic shows these stupid mistakes he points out in his safety threads. I stick my fingers and try to move them, EVERY pre-flight! Always have,,,that's what I was taught to do. Push and tug lightly on the control surfaces. Look for any movement and slop. My instructor was aware of the tendency for the rudder spar to crack on my C-152, a common issue with them with lots of hours. A normal pre-flight included moving the rudder stop-to-stop. When you reach the stops apply light but firm pressure against the stop and look at the rudder and skin itself watching for oil canning. Sure enough, mine was cracked and had to be fixed $$$$! I got the opportunity to look as they opened it up. Scary! I always look at a good thorough pre-flight as my last opportunity to find something broke, about to break, loose, worn, electrical issues, etc. on the ground, not in the air. There are no "rules" about pre-flights. Everyone is different about what THEY feel is adequate and meets their safety standards. Its obvious I am over on the cautious side and there are others, like the pilot I used as an example, way over on the complacency side. Just pointing out that there can be serious safety issues found during a good pre-flight and just because we built/own/ and are sole pilot of the aircraft, don't get complacent about the need for a thorough pre-flight. I find it sad that there a few people here that actually defend the knucklehead I used as an example.. Would anyone REALLY want to get in his plane and go for a ride with him?!:eek:
 
100% agree with David and appreciate you brining this up to sort of wake us up from complacency. Axel, I understand what you are trying to accomplish as well but hear me out as I'm guilty of this myself. Several years ago before my RV days I owned a Cessna 310 and did lots of cross country. One day I had gone to the airport the night before and filled up the tanks (All of them - 130 gallons) - Next morning I got to the airport and decided to do a quick pre-flight and just sump the fuel. I got to my Right Main tank and proceed to sump . . . nothing. Not 1 drop. 50 Gallons of Avgas vanished in 12 hours inside of my locked hanger.
I was upset but so glad that I did a pre-flight. For years after that I wouldn't miss 1 single pre-flight. Even during fly-ins for Saturday morning breakfast or a $100 hamburger (which cost $200 with the 310;) )
However, I have been guilty a few times with my RV that I will fly the night before, come back for an early flight and just push her out and get in because I knew I had fuel, oil, etc.

David, thanks for waking me up and making me think again :)
 
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50 gallons of AVGAS

Amir,

Please solve the mystery, where did the 50 gallons go? If someone did the "five finger discount" did you ever figure out who stole it and how they got in your hangar?
 
never figured out where it went. I know it didn't leak. No puddles, no blue spots below the wing, just gone. 5 finger discount.
I changed locks, and 2 months later moved to a 60x60 hanger with a friend.
 
Well done

David

Well done for making this post, like you I can?t believe that normally sensible people want to criticise you for posting it.

I do not believe for one minute that the people who do a night before pre flight drag their aeroplane out of the hangar and do mag and carb heat checks, then put it away. I know I don?t when I do this.

Even if I had, I would still do mags and carb heat before committing aviation the next day.

Don?t be disheartened by those who just want to argue and Attack common sense, remember not everyone has it.
 
Temperature, humidity and dew point usually change overnight, and as everyone knows, that can lead to condensation. It is my understanding that condensation can occur within fuel tanks. Therefore, I don't feel that by sumping my tanks the night before I've assured there will be no water in them by the next morning. And I don't want any water possibly hitting the carburetor at a critical time on take off especially. I believe that's part of the logic behind the standard teaching of sumping your tanks before your first flight of the day.

I suppose someone might say if you filled the tanks right up to the very top the night before there will be no air in the tanks for moisture to possibly condense out of. Well, everyone makes their own choices (but sometimes they might impact others as well), but I think that's against standard teaching. Fuel and oil can leak out too. Taking time to do a thorough and relaxed pre-flight the night before on a plane that's going to be in a locked hangar nobody else has access to sounds like a great idea to me. I personally wouldn't feel that is a reason to skip everything the next morning though.
 
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Water in tanks.

I should add to what I said in my previous post that I am currently rebuilding my RV9 due to exactly this kind of complacency by a joint owner. They don?t run on water!

Which is why it is annoying that two posters criticised the thread starter!
 
Conditions vary

When operating a glider towplane out of a dirt field with no hard pad to do run-ups on, we used to do a rolling mag check on the AM warm-up flight. Any stationary run-up on that airport would result in lots of rock chips in the prop.
So for the first flight of the day, roll out of the tie down, keep moving, when on centerline of the runway, go to 2100 rpm, and while accelerating, reach over and do a mag check. Then, apply full power and continue the takeoff.
An observer watching this first flight of the day might very well assume that no mag check was done. (unless they had keen ears and made a point to listen).

Out here in the west, with drier climates, condensation in tanks is extremely unlikely. How many times have I left the tanks 1/4 full for weeks, and then sump-checked the tanks and found nothing. Enough times that I can tell you with absolute certainty that if I sump-checked the tanks last night, they are safe to fly this morning.
If I gave the plane a bath last night at the wash rack, I fully expect to find a little water this morning. Otherwise....no.

I tailor my pre-flight to my knowledge and understanding of the airplane:

A rental or club plane gets an extremely thorough going over. I have found unreported damage from the previous user - the result of hitting a wingtip on a post during landing roll-out. I once pre-flighted a glider that was fairly new to the fleet (it had been flying for about two weeks). When I moved the controls, it seemed like the ailerons were kind of sloppy to me. So I pulled out the seat and stuck my head way in the back. I found a castellated nut sitting on the gear well, a washer hanging by the last thread, and an AN bolt backed half way out of the aileron bell crank connection. I walked into the shop, grabbed a wrench and a cotter pin, and ten minutes later I was on tow. The funny/scary thing? After properly installing that control linkage bolt, the aileron slop felt exactly the same. Had I been a bit more familiar with the airplane, I would have dismissed it.

My own airplane, I'm looking for things that seem out of place, anything changed. I once checked the oil on my Citabria and noticed a small puddle of oil under the cowl cooling exit. Now if I were unfamiliar with the airplane, I would probably have asked the line crew if that airplane was known to leak a little oil. But it was my airplane and I knew it did not leak oil. So I pulled the cowl off. Following the oil trail to its source, the oil pressure gauge tap in the block, I grabbed the fitting and gave it a wiggle. It broke off in my hand.

What I don't do is inspect things that have not changed in 500 hrs, were fine at last condition inspection, and I am certain are still fine. I don't wiggle my control surfaces for slop in the hinges at every preflight. Such slop would take time to develop, not something that is going to change overnight. I don't look at every Nylock nut on every control hinge. Because they were installed 500 hrs ago with fresh nuts, torqued properly, and have not changed. Have you EVER found a Nylock nut that was properly assembled actually come loose? Perhaps one that is on something that is periodically disassembled and has been on and off multiple times. Not a hinge bolt.

What I do check EVERY time:
(1) The jam nuts on the rod-bearing hinges.
(2) the plastic clevis fork on the trim tab. (I wouldn't check regularly if it was metal. I think this plastic part is a vulnerability.)
(3) fuel state
(4) oil state
(5) propeller surfaces
(6) pitot tube and fuel vents for foreign (or domestic) obstructions
(7) air in the tires
(8) listen and look as I pull the plane out of the hangar for anything unusual
(9) mag check
(10) prop cycled
(11) controls free

Numbers 1--5 can be done the night before. If I skipped (7), I sure would notice it during (8). It is an interesting observation that a locked hangar isn't a guarantee of fuel state from the night before. I will change my attitude and procedure on that based on this discussion. Its not impossible that someone could steal fuel overnight. Would I notice it on my fuel gages and EMS? I think so, but not positive. So....I'll check the tanks in the morning from now on. Thanks.
 
Out here in the west, with drier climates, condensation in tanks is extremely unlikely.

Certainly agree with this. I sump my tanks before every flight but have never found water - 200 hours on the Rocket, 100 hours on the Decathlon, 100 hours on the RV-4, and many rental planes before that. And I rarely fill the tanks more than 1/2 full.

But I still sump the tanks before flight - whenever I get thinking it is a waste of time I tell myself "it only takes once to make for a bad day".
 
Certainly agree with this. I sump my tanks before every flight but have never found water - 200 hours on the Rocket, 100 hours on the Decathlon, 100 hours on the RV-4, and many rental planes before that. And I rarely fill the tanks more than 1/2 full.

But I still sump the tanks before flight - whenever I get thinking it is a waste of time I tell myself "it only takes once to make for a bad day".

THIS is the correct attitude!
 
Seems as though once could bifurcate this discussion.

First branch: the pilots who essentially skip *any* preflight because it's their plane, they were the last one to fly it, they know how much fuel it has, blah blah blah. Seems like maybe the subject of the OP was one of those.

Second branch: Guys who do a preflight, but either do part of it the night before or abbreviate their preflight the day of the flight.

I won't comment on the first group, as I think that's just a dangerous attitude to take and not worth discussing here.

As to the second...I have to ask: what's the hurry? I can do a good preflight on my 7A in a few minutes, it's not an hour-long task. Just get to the airport 10 minutes earlier, or take off 10 minutes (at most) later, and do the job right.

We're not in combat here. No reason to rush things and increase risk, IMO.

I'm never in a hurry around airplanes.
 
The guy who taxied into your plane

On a related topic: While working for my private pilot's license, my instructor had me fly to another airport, where we parked on the ramp before going into the FBO. We were in there for maybe a half hour, probably to use the facilities and maybe for some food/drink.

When we came out, after un-chocking, I was ready to get in the plane and go (no walk around check). After all, we had done a full pre-flight before leaving that morning, the plane operated perfectly on the way there, and we knew how much fuel we'd burned (no need for more).

My instructor stopped me and said, "what about the guy that taxied into the plane while we were inside and left because he didn't want responsibility for the damage?"

"I didn't think of that," I said. Sounded to me like something that could happen. I always do a walk around inspection before departing when the plane has been out of my sight on a public ramp for any length of time.
 
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I?ve seen Axel hop in his plane and race it without so much as a glance around it. Worked out fine for him
 
what you might not know

I actually do agree with OP..... but, you actually don't know what you don't know. There are places to check dual ignition... other than at the runway threshold. There may be hours spent inspecting things. In a closed hangar. Out of view. I would need much more evidence of sloppy practice... before I went out in public and ranted about someone's safety. I fly off a field absolutely filled with students. Every day! When I see six of them up ahead in the run-up area, I have been known to check mags while rolling. Then I go to the head of the line and call the tower. If I don't I may just be another half hour waiting for students to get going. And overheat my cylinders on the ground. Anyway, I make a habit of refraining from judgement most days. Benefit of the doubt is an almost lost concept, I think.
 
I?ve seen Axel hop in his plane and race it without so much as a glance around it. Worked out fine for him

:)That is because you were the only one allowed to touch/pre-flight the plane. But you do make a good point.
 
Preflight

My $.02 - I totally agree that it's so important to be reminded regularly to keep from getting complacent.

Here's another perspective: Many years ago, my dad was in a serious accident in his Cessna 180, with severe injuries to himself and two passengers. As you might imagine, there as a pretty hefty lawsuit filed against him by one of the injured passengers. During the course of the lawsuit, his "regular" practices were brought up many times. The plaintiffs attorney grilled him and myself (because I regularly flew with him and knew his practices) over and over again about our preflights and other habits. It was a long and difficult battle. Let me just say that I learned the hard way that the next time (heaven forbid) that I'm in that situation I need to be able to say that I ALWAYS sump the tanks, check prop condition, control continuity, etc, before EVERY FLIGHT. I was able to say that with conviction during the lawsuit and it ended favorably. It is something I have never forgotten.
Kurt Goodfellow
 
I have to agree with 9GT.

I guess doing your walk around the night before and leaving it in a locked hangar is one thing. Checking oil, sumping tanks, run ups and the rest of the checklist I would never do the night before and call it good.
 
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