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Yet another tool thread.

jssaylor2007

Active Member
Sorry guys, but my question is what tools are needed that don’t generally come in one of the tool kits? I’m talking things most people don’t think of because they are already in their home shop, things such as vice, bench grinder, band saw, etc.

I’m trying to find out what all I need to budget for toolwise (including toolkit) prior to budgeting for the empennage.

Also if this has been done before, I would appreciate a link. Thanks!
 
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I found that no matter how much planning you do just make sure you have money set aside for future tool purchases. It is amazing how many tools I have had to buy. However, I am also of the mindset that if a tool makes a job easier I just have to own it. :D

There is definitely a minimum to get the job done but this usually results in misery. For example, you will do a fair amount of cutting thick (1/8"+) aluminum which can be done with a hack saw but man it sure does suck. That is where a band saw would come in handy. Not everything can be done with a band saw though so a hack saw is a must. This is just one example.

It would take me a long time to make a list of tools that I have and use so I'll wait to see if anyone else already has one they will post first.

The plus side of the coin is that not everything has to be purchased at once. For example, there are a lot of electronics/wiring tools you will have to get such as strippers, crimpers, extraction tools, more crimpers, etc. These don't need to be purchased until well later in the build. I purchased mine around 1500 hrs of building.

As far as my most used tools through the build I would say dremel, sandpaper, files, nova air drill, and vise. In that order. Oh and by the way, you can't have too big of an air compressor in my mind. That is the only tool purchase I still regret. Someday I will slam a 60 or 80 gal in my garage.
 
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I found that no matter how much planning you do just make sure you have money set aside for future tool purchases. It is amazing how many tools I have had to buy. However, I am also of the mindset that if a tool makes a job easier I just have to own it. :D

There is definitely a minimum to get the job done but this usually results in misery. For example, you will do a fair amount of cutting thick (1/8"+) aluminum which can be done with a hack saw but man it sure does suck. That is where a band saw would come in handy. Not everything can be done with a band saw though so a hack saw is a must. This is just one example.

It would take me a long time to make a list of tools that I have and use so I'll wait to see if anyone else already has one they will post first.

The plus side of the coin is that not everything has to be purchased at once. For example, there are a lot of electronics/wiring tools you will have to get such as strippers, crimpers, extraction tools, more crimpers, etc. These don't need to be purchased until well later in the build. I purchased mine around 1500 hrs of building.

As far as my most used tools through the build I would say dremel, sandpaper, files, nova air drill, and vise. In that order. Oh and by the way, you can't have too big of an air compressor in my mind. That is the only tool purchase I still regret. Someday I will slam a 60 or 80 gal in my garage.

Appreciate the reply. I guess a follow up would be, is there a bare minimum on tools required to get started on the empennage? I?m firmly in hurry up and wait mode at the moment, so am basically really excited to get started.
 
Appreciate the reply. I guess a follow up would be, is there a bare minimum on tools required to get started on the empennage? I?m firmly in hurry up and wait mode at the moment, so am basically really excited to get started.

Band saw, vice, and a method to debur. You will be deburing almost instantly. If you are going to get a 6 inch wheel, then get the grinder you will mount it on.

Make sure you have a good pressure regulator/ oiling/ drying system for your air tank. Get some good lightweight hoses and have your connections/ system planned out.

If you are planning to use a cordless drill, extra batteries. Speaking of drills, order an extra 6 pack of #40 & #30 bits

I am not mentioning the things from the "tool kits" as you requested.

Did you order the plans on the flash drive. I generally read up a few pages in front and make sure I have all the tools necessary and order them as they come up.
 
Honestly what is in the toolkits offered by a few of the vendors has just about everything you need save some c-clamps, a hack saw, compressor (if using air tools), and maybe a dead blow hammer. Also a set of screwdrivers. The other stuff like a bandsaw or belt sander make life easier but are not strictly necessary. Some of it comes to your building style and appetite for purchasing tools.

You will need some slack in your budget for all the little ?nice to have? or consumables that will always come up. Just wait till you have to reorder some part you screw up. It happens.

Best advice is start. If you wait till you have all the tools you think you need, you I?ll never begin.
 
While the tool kits are reasonably complete, as others have said you will be buying a lot of additional tools as you progress with the build.

A couple of tools that are not required but I found very nice to have (and that I personally wouldn't build without) are a pneumatic rivet squeezer and a DRDT-2 for dimpling (replacing the C-Frame tool). If you think you may want either of these, I would get them early as there are a lot of rivets to be squeezed and a lot of holes to dimple in large sheets in the empennage kit.

And I recommend a slow speed 8" grinder for mounting the ScotchBrite wheel on. The lower speed makes it much easier to control as you are de-burring and shaping parts. Something like this one: https://www.rockler.com/rikon-80-805-8-slow-speed-bench-grinder

I suggest the Cleaveland Tool kits for your specific RV kit, as they have some of the best dimple dies and excellent customer service.

Good luck with your new endeavor.
 
Tools

A bunch of tools not found in the kit.
Tungsten bars
CDI 1/4" torque wrench
Washer wrench set
Thin wall sockets
Screw drill bits
Right angle drill attachment
Reamers
Drill stops
Regulators ( RTI 1/4")
HVLP paint gun
Hobby Air respirator
All the home made tools in my Kitplanes tips on my blog
I could go on, and on.
 
Slow or quick build?

You may not have decided this yet, but to some extent how much extra cash you spend on tools "in the future" will depend on whether you are going to do slow-build or quick-build wings/fuselage.

If you are going slow-build, then I find it unimaginable to be without some of the common extras, from nutplate drill jigs through to a pneumatic squeezer with a range of yokes. Another example - it's a lot more convenient if you have several countersink cages, each fitted with different size countersinks and "set up" ready to go. Having gone the slow-build route, it would have driven me nuts if I had to re-calibrate a countersink cage every time I switched from #30 to #40 countersinks or back.

Don't get me wrong, an all quick-build RV-10 is a large project, but my point is a slow-build RV10 is an even larger project, and any tool strategy that saves time and/or improves accuracy (which can be the same thing) will be something you'll appreciate for the latter case.
 
You may not have decided this yet, but to some extent how much extra cash you spend on tools "in the future" will depend on whether you are going to do slow-build or quick-build wings/fuselage.

If you are going slow-build, then I find it unimaginable to be without some of the common extras, from nutplate drill jigs through to a pneumatic squeezer with a range of yokes. Another example - it's a lot more convenient if you have several countersink cages, each fitted with different size countersinks and "set up" ready to go. Having gone the slow-build route, it would have driven me nuts if I had to re-calibrate a countersink cage every time I switched from #30 to #40 countersinks or back.

Don't get me wrong, an all quick-build RV-10 is a large project, but my point is a slow-build RV10 is an even larger project, and any tool strategy that saves time and/or improves accuracy (which can be the same thing) will be something you'll appreciate for the latter case.

Haven?t decided on QB yet, but may decide to do QB wings solely because of all the issues I read about when sealing the tanks. QB fuselage doesn?t seem like as much of a benefit aside from straight time savings. Ultimately though I will cross that bridge when I get there, and may decide to go slow throughout or quick throughout.
 
If you are planning to use a cordless drill, extra batteries. Speaking of drills, order an extra 6 pack of #40 & #30 bits

Did you order the plans on the flash drive. I generally read up a few pages in front and make sure I have all the tools necessary and order them as they come up.
Can I use a cordless drill in place of the Sioux drill that comes in the kit? I was thinking one of the smaller a Milwaukee cordless.

Unfortunately I haven?t ordered the kit yet, hoping to get it in the next few months, but knew I would need tools first. Can you get both paper and USB?
 
Can I use a cordless drill in place of the Sioux drill that comes in the kit? I was thinking one of the smaller a Milwaukee cordless.

Unfortunately I haven’t ordered the kit yet, hoping to get it in the next few months, but knew I would need tools first. Can you get both paper and USB?

Many people just use a cordless. However, an air drill sure is nice, it's lighter, really small, and spins way faster. Honestly my Nova air drill is even quieter than my cordless. If you want to save a bit of cash I highly recommend the Nova drill that Cleaveland sells.
 
Can I use a cordless drill in place of the Sioux drill that comes in the kit? I was thinking one of the smaller a Milwaukee cordless.

Unfortunately I haven’t ordered the kit yet, hoping to get it in the next few months, but knew I would need tools first. Can you get both paper and USB?

Cordless drills are fine. I drilled, countersunk, and deburred most of the holes in my RV-6 with one and have used one exclusively on the RV-10. I just don't enjoy the noise of a single stage portable compressor in my small shop or garage, and I hate being tied to air hoses, so I avoid air tools unless they are really necessary (e.g. riveting).

One thing about tools. You don't need *that* many to start. C-frame, drill, files, dimple dies, rivet sets, rivet gun, drill bits, clecos, countersinks, and bucking bars. A manual squeezer is nice to have.

Buy the tail kit. Acquire the basic tools. Get started and add tools as you need. You'll finish the project faster that way than waiting to build up a pro-quality shop before you start.

As far as plans go, you get a set of paper plans for each sub-kit when it is delivered. And if you have the USB plans, can print multiple copies for casual reading at lunch or whatever...
 
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Can I use a cordless drill in place of the Sioux drill that comes in the kit? I was thinking one of the smaller a Milwaukee cordless.

Unfortunately I haven?t ordered the kit yet, hoping to get it in the next few months, but knew I would need tools first. Can you get both paper and USB?

As others have said, you can do the whole kit with a cordless....but you will be limited by battery charges and how big your biceps are. That drill gets heavy match drilling large skins! Go hold your lightest cordless drill at about chest high and hold it in the same position for 30 minutes and see how that feels. Now try that for 2 hours. It can be fatiguing. I still use my cordless for countersink operations as it has a slow sleep high torque setting that works better for countersinking. But all the rest is with an air drill.

Order the USB plans asap. They are 10$ last I checked. They ship the paper with each kit but having the USB plans is very well worth the 10 plus a few bucks in shipping. I uploaded mine to my dropbox and have them on my tablet, phone, computer. Wherever. Then when you have 30 minutes to kill, read over upcoming steps. It ensures I have an idea of what I am doing the next time I go to the shop.

Order the plans, order the kit, then get the tools as you need them. I actually do not recommend the tool kits. Blasphemous, I know. I have spent the same money...but over several years. You can build most of the tail kit with probably $1000 to $1500 in tools. Eventually, you will have enough things on your punchlist, that if you need to wait a few days on a tool, you can finish another puch list item somewhere else while you wait.
 
Can I use a cordless drill in place of the Sioux drill that comes in the kit? I was thinking one of the smaller a Milwaukee cordless.

Unfortunately I haven?t ordered the kit yet, hoping to get it in the next few months, but knew I would need tools first. Can you get both paper and USB?

As others have said, you can do the whole kit with a cordless....but you will be limited by battery charges and how big your biceps are. That drill gets heavy match drilling large skins! Go hold your lightest cordless drill at about chest high and hold it in the same position for 30 minutes and see how that feels. Now try that for 2 hours. It can be fatiguing. I still use my cordless for countersink operations as it has a slow sleep high torque setting that works better for countersinking. But all the rest is with an air drill.

Order the USB plans asap. They are 10$ last I checked. They ship the paper with each kit but having the USB plans is very well worth the 10 plus a few bucks in shipping. I uploaded mine to my dropbox and have them on my tablet, phone, computer. Wherever. Then when you have 30 minutes to kill, read over upcoming steps. It ensures I have an idea of what I am doing the next time I go to the shop.

Order the plans, order the kit, then get the tools as you need them. I actually do not recommend the tool kits. Blasphemous, I know. I have spent the same money...but over several years. You can build most of the tail kit with probably $1000 to $1500 in tools. Eventually, you will have enough things on your punchlist, that if you need to wait a few days on a tool, you can finish another puch list item somewhere else while you wait.
 
Can I use a cordless drill in place of the Sioux drill that comes in the kit? I was thinking one of the smaller a Milwaukee cordless.

Unfortunately I haven?t ordered the kit yet, hoping to get it in the next few months, but knew I would need tools first. Can you get both paper and USB?


As others have said, you can do the whole kit with a cordless....but you will be limited by battery charges and how big your biceps are. That drill gets heavy match drilling large skins! Go hold your lightest cordless drill at about chest high and hold it in the same position for 30 minutes and see how that feels. Now try that for 2 hours. It can be fatiguing. I still use my cordless for countersink operations as it has a slow sleep high torque setting that works better for countersinking. But all the rest is with an air drill.

Order the USB plans asap. They are 10$ last I checked. They ship the paper with each kit but having the USB plans is very well worth the 10 plus a few bucks in shipping. I uploaded mine to my dropbox and have them on my tablet, phone, computer. Wherever. Then when you have 30 minutes to kill, read over upcoming steps. It ensures I have an idea of what I am doing the next time I go to the shop.

Order the plans, order the kit, then get the tools as you need them. I actually do not recommend the tool kits. Blasphemous, I know. I have spent the same money...but over several years. You can build most of the tail kit with probably $1000 to $1500 in tools. Eventually, you will have enough things on your punchlist, that if you need to wait a few days on a tool, you can finish another puch list item somewhere else while you wait.
 
If it's not a QB, and maybe if it is, plan on one of those robot vacuums for the shop. They do make things nicer. Um, you did make the work bench bottoms high enough from the floor for one, right?

Plenty of light. When you have enough, add more.

Some sound. I use an old boombox, but people can get fancy.

Everything Wirejock said.

Set of small wrenches and sockets and drivers and screwdrivers.

Some of these magnets, which do a great job holding things in alignment until you can drill it and get a cleco in. Get an even number since they're used in pairs.

Dave
 
If at all possible, take a builders class first. You can figure out most of the tools you will want to purchase during the class. It may spoil you. Tungsten bucking bars, DRDT-2 and a pneumatic squeezer are all of a sudden ?necessary?.
 
If you?re just starting out, I?d recommend contacting cleaveland tools and just purchase their kit. Yes, I?ve had to buy a few things here and there, but they did a great job putting the kit together and their service is top notch. Don?t buy **** tools - you?ll regret it.

The only stuff that i have purchased from Harbor Freight is my band saw and bench grinder.
 
In the drill discussion, this only weighs a few more ounces than the Sioux, and I figure I can keep a couple of extra batteries on hand. On to deburring, what is the best tool/tools to do that with?
 
In the drill discussion, this only weighs a few more ounces than the Sioux, and I figure I can keep a couple of extra batteries on hand. On to deburring, what is the best tool/tools to do that with?

This is one area where people differ more greatly. If it is a big skin or has relatively flat edges I start with a vixen file. After the vixen I go to the bench grinder with the 6" scotchbrite wheel if the part isn't too big or awkward. If it is I put a 1" scotchbrite wheel on my dremel and go to town. For the nooks and crannies I like to "floss" it with 400 grit turners cloth (sandpaper will not do here as it tears to easily). As for the holes I use a 5/16" drill bit and give each hole a light turn or two to remove the bur. If it is an area that I know I'm going to prime I do away with the drill big method and use the dremel with the scotchbrite wheel instead. You will develop your own method as you go but hopefully this helps as a starting point.
 
OK, I'm a tool geek, so I may not be the best person to give advise.

I would say to budget about $200 / month for new tools.

The reason is just as you finish with one type of tool, you need something else.

Be it 500 more clecos, flairing tools, crimpers, different type of crimper, gear wrenches, a micro in-lb torque wrench to fit where you foot long one won't, more drill bits, a new cordless drill because you wore out your old one, etc.

If you think building is expensive, wait until you start flying! You will convert that tool budget into your fuel budget.

Not only that, but after 12 years of flying, I'm still buying new tools. It truly never ends.
 
If at all possible, take a builders class first. You can figure out most of the tools you will want to purchase during the class. It may spoil you. Tungsten bucking bars, DRDT-2 and a pneumatic squeezer are all of a sudden ?necessary?.

Curious, what does a builder class cost, and how long do they typically last? The closest one to me appears to be the one in Dallas, and even that is 6 hours away.
 
So I've been trying to keep an eye out for a bandsaw and drill press. Is this something that would be a good buy? Starting to think Harbor Freight might not be the worst place to look after comparing prices.
 
So I've been trying to keep an eye out for a bandsaw and drill press. Is this something that would be a good buy? Starting to think Harbor Freight might not be the worst place to look after comparing prices.

Heck I have bought quite a few WEN brand tools from amazon with great luck. Check this one out. Quite a bit cheaper still.
 
Harbor Fright

My Harbor Fright drill press and disk sander built two airplanes. Band saw is OK. Probably equal to any other in the price range. I have quite a few HF tools. Nice thing is the warranty on hand tools. I've destroyed three 2lb dead blow hammers on my C-frame. They just give me a new one. Speaking of which, you just reminded me to buy a new band. The original snapped yesterday.
 
My Harbor Fright drill press and disk sander built two airplanes. Band saw is OK. Probably equal to any other in the price range. I have quite a few HF tools. Nice thing is the warranty on hand tools. I've destroyed three 2lb dead blow hammers on my C-frame. They just give me a new one. Speaking of which, you just reminded me to buy a new band. The original snapped yesterday.
The Harbor Freight drill press is fine and will get the job done. I had a harbor freight band saw that was great until one of the parts broke and getting a replacement was impossible. So I would not recommend a HF band saw. I currently have a 9" Ryobi that I picked up at a garage sale that I put in a fine tooth metal cutting blade. It also works "fine" and gets the job done.

Harbor Freight is great for hand tools, pneumatic tools like disc grinders, clamps, jacks, vice, but anything with an electric motor is hit or miss.
 
So I've been trying to keep an eye out for a bandsaw and drill press. Is this something that would be a good buy? Starting to think Harbor Freight might not be the worst place to look after comparing prices.
That look like a tool that one would say "they don't build them like that anymore" Heavy and solid and could last forever. Just make sure it runs and the blade runs true. The 12" throat is a plus. On the downside it is going to be difficult to move around because the motor is mounted under the table, but that may not matter if you have the space for it. It is listed at $200 OBO. You could offer what it would cost for a new 9" WEN.
 
I am firmly in the camp of buy tools as you go. In the end 3-5K in tools is not unreasonable to plan for, but it can be spread out over years rather than all up front. $1,500 up front should get you what is needed to start.

I used the kit contents to get an idea of what I would need, but found many alternatives that I liked better. To be specific on a few alternatives, one tungsten bucking bar is worth a pile of steel ones. Not to say you won?t need many steel bucking bars. There are so many rivets that are hard to get to that you will need to get very creative with bucking bars any way. I have made at least 6 from scrap steel and an angle grinder. And buy a 3X rivet gun. A 2X is on the small size for the AN-4 rivets. (If you can buy 2 guns a 2X is lighter and easier to control so buy a 2X and a 3X.)
Drills,

I have an air and two battery drills. Most times you will need several bits in sequence. It is nice to just switch drills rather than constantly switching bits. And I use the battery drills for tons of chores around the house. I almost never drive a screw by hand. You will also need a bigger drill than an air drill for some of the holes in the steel components (at least on the RV-10)
The DRD2 is very much worth the price. While a C-frame will do the job, sooner or later, after dimpling hundreds of holes, you will lose focus, or the piece will slip and punch a hole in the wrong place. While the DRD2 can do the same, (I prefer not to be swinging a hammer at my project) you can ?set? the upper and lower dies lightly in place in the hole before bearing down to make the dimple. Noise may also be an issue in your work area, DRD2 = quiet, C-frame = lotta banging going on.

For a squeezer, I bought both a pneumatic and a hand squeezer. I never used the pneumatic squeezer. I found anything with in the depth capability of the hand squeezer was quicker without the need to set up the much heavier pneumatic squeezer and awkward air hose etc. I would recommend the ATS Pro squeezer https://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?id=5011-1A with the bench mount kit. The bench mount kit frees up the hands to hold the small parts. That is worth a great deal of frustration mitigation.

For the power tools, bench top drill press and band saw are plenty. Even a small compressor will drive a rivet gun and drill. They are very noisy, so plan a location remote from family and work station if possible. For that a portable that you can put outside while working is a good solution if the neighbors aren?t too close. One of my real ?go to? tools is a HF 12? disk sander. I use it so shape and clean up the edges for the many cut out parts. I don?t like files and rarely use them where the sander will do the job in seconds with much effort. I wouldn?t be without it!

For deburring I have several unusual favorites. I use the 2? scotchbrite wheels on a small angle air grinder. Much easier to bring the grinder to the part than the part to a larger stationary grinder. I have worn our 6 or 7 during the RV-10 build. The Speed Deburr tool https://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?id=AE1046 is indispensable. I even use it to do quick countersinks when there a just a few and setting up a cage is just too much trouble. (By the way, multiple cages at least for each size is a great recommendation) I also spent the money for the Two-way deburring tool https://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?id=TD001 for deburring skins. It is expensive, but saved hours of tedious deburring.
Lastly, buy lots of clecos. A few hundred to start, but add hundreds more as you go.

Much more to say, but this is already too long. I short start easy with just the basics, then add as you go. Building a plane is a marathon, not a sprint.
 
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