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  #1  
Old 07-13-2014, 12:51 PM
David-aviator David-aviator is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri
Posts: 4,467
Default 3-Pointing the 8...

....it can be done.

In perfectly calm early morning conditions and out of deference to a good pilot (Mike Seager) who admonished me to learn to 3 point the RV, I went out and did it this morning. First one was right on, the second skipped and bounced a bit but not bad enough to go around. Both on a hard surface.

The challenge is flaring to level off at the right altitude, like about 4" off the concrete. My flare is too high most of the time and that needs work. I've been working on a technique glancing out the side to judge flare height. The attitude over the nose has been fixed in my brain but I am usually too high for a decent 3 pointer. The wheel landing is much easier, just ease off on the back pressure until it touches, a little forward stick, and you're there.
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  #2  
Old 07-13-2014, 05:57 PM
luddite42 luddite42 is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David-aviator View Post
....it can be done.
Congrats on seeing this for yourself and not being discouraged by the "conventional wisdom".
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  #3  
Old 08-06-2014, 09:43 AM
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wera710 wera710 is offline
 
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Location: Pottstown PA
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Don't give up on the three pointers. Its just an experience thing. The more you do, the better you get. The better you get, the more your muscle memory will start to kick in so it becomes automatic. By the time you have about 30 of them under your belt, you won't even remember that they were giving you problems. The key is to keep at it.

Learning nothing but wheel landings can present some disadvantages down the road. Honestly, they are best saved for those days when the wind demands it. We have a pretty small margin for error between the ground and the prop on our RV-8s. You can stand a Cub or a Luscombe dead nuts level on the mains and have more than a foot of ground clearance between the prop and the pavement. Not so with the RV. We are talking INCHES here. You really should master both techniques and use the appropriate one when applicable. A wheel landing on a rough field for instance, with "rumble strips" running across it, well, not a good idea! The same field with a nose high three pointer or very tail low attitude makes it a tame proposition.

Anyway, stick with it. The more you do, the more you realize there is no perfect technique and mistakes are TOOLS to better learning. You can play with pitch, speed, and attitude as you search for what works for you. These 8s really do land easily in a tail low or three point attitude. But for many, with little or not tail dragger time, it may "seem" easier to just plunk it on the mains and never bother. But god forbid if you screw that up. Its a bent prop waiting to happen if you pogo off the mains or feed in too much forward stick. A botched three pointer ends in an embarrassing bounce and nothing more. A botched wheel landing on these short gear legs can end in an engine rebuild.
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RV-8 N710PX "Bad Attitude!"

Last edited by wera710 : 08-06-2014 at 09:46 AM.
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  #4  
Old 08-06-2014, 10:39 AM
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RV8iator RV8iator is offline
 
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Location: Dahlonega, GA
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Talking I'm scared

Now, after a couple thousand hours of 8 time I'm finding out its a real monster and I should be "verwy verwy careful".
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  #5  
Old 08-06-2014, 11:08 AM
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wera710 wera710 is offline
 
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Talking

LOL. A monster is landing a Cub at night in a 25 mph cross wind. Never...Ever...AGAIN. HA.
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RV-8 N710PX "Bad Attitude!"
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  #6  
Old 08-06-2014, 11:08 AM
BillL BillL is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
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During transition training in the 7, Mike S taught me to sit left and look out the side on short final so I could see and judge the nose high 3 points. The mains still mostly touched first as the landing as the 7 stalls quick with throttle off as I guess all RV's do (not 9?). My most challenging task was to learn to flare low to the runway. (old cessna habits die hard)
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  #7  
Old 08-06-2014, 11:21 AM
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Neal@F14 Neal@F14 is offline
 
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Location: Wichita Falls, TX
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My first 3 landings ever in an RV-8 were 3-pointers, and were very smooth with no bounce at all. I did have the 8's 200lb owner in the back seat which definitely helped shift the CG aft. Then after getting all checked out in the 8, and soloing it later that day (solo landings were wheel landings) I go home that evening and read on VAF that you're not supposed to be able to 3-point an 8.

Funny how they worked just fine with some weight in the back.
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  #8  
Old 08-06-2014, 11:42 AM
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humptybump humptybump is offline
 
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Location: Eastern Shore of Virginia
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Oh come on Neil, I know you can 3-point just fine with no weight in the back seat
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  #9  
Old 08-06-2014, 11:44 AM
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wera710 wera710 is offline
 
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LOL! I think the most adamant and/or mostly false insistance that the 8 cannot three point/full stall land comes from low time pilots transitioning to the tail draggers. Or high time pilots transitioning to Tail Draggers, for that matter. Its purely an experience thing. With enough stick time, you can land the darn thing on one tire, or the tail first, on purpose, while whistling dixie and thinking about the Victoria Secrets model you'd like to meet. Not saying don't pay attention (before someone goes off), I am just saying the RV-8 is one of the EASIER tail draggers to taxi and land.

That is not to belittle anyone who just cannot seem to make it happen. But I think it does directly reflect the amount of actual TD time they have when they transitioned to the RV-8. Five hours in a Citabria is not that much if you have 200 hours in a C-172 or C-150. It takes a short period to unlearn the muscle memories and visual cues. A guy with a few 100 hours in a classic TD generally doesn't even realize there is supposed to be an "issue" three pointing an 8. He just goes and does it and doesn't think twice about it. For him is all speed management. Which is actually part of the learning issue with new Rv pilots anyway. You are just as likely to come in too hot as to bust through pattern altitude the first few times you solo.

As far as CG goes, I can put 50 pounds in my FRONT compartment, leave the rear empty and still full stall it on. So even there, I don't get it. BUT, I can see how some aft weight can help. ITs why I always argue with guys when they tell me they are putting their battery on the firewall. With EVERYTHING up front you see more issues. Put it in the back. Its so just much nicer in terms of trim, flair, and CG, especially with full tanks. anyhoo.

Anyway, the next time someone tells you you can't three point an RV-8, remember the same mindset and conventional wisdom that said the Luscombe was a hard plane to land. Total BS. Its one of the easiest. But you had to use your feet. Something INSTRUCTORS forgot to do in the 1960s.
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RV-8 N710PX "Bad Attitude!"

Last edited by wera710 : 08-06-2014 at 02:12 PM.
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  #10  
Old 08-06-2014, 12:25 PM
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Low Pass Low Pass is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wera710 View Post
LOL. A monster is landing a Cub at night in a 25 mph cross wind. Never...Ever...AGAIN. HA.
Well, you know what they say about Cubs - they'll just barely kill you.

Not sure who said you couldn't 3 pt an -8. It just takes a lot more work to accomplish the same thing as the wheel landing. Good skill to have landing in tight spaces obviously.
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