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UL POWER w/ ELECTRIC CS PROP! ??? NEED IMPUT

taverroi

Well Known Member
Guys, short and sweet.

I have an RV7A (NO Engine) and considering a UL 200HP plant w/an elec CS Wirlwind 3 Blade Prop instead of the tried and true Lycoming IO-360 w/Hartzell prop. I have to decide tomorrow!!!

I need any and all input you will give!!..Why should I not do it?..Or why should I?

The Lord declares that "There is Wisdom in a multitude of Counselors" I believe Him!

Where else but here can I get that on this topic!

Fire away, Im all ears!!

Tango
 
After owning 44 airplanes and 6 helicopters, my advice is to order lycoming engine, protect your resell value and live happily ever. The ul engine looks nice, but it will be a one off install as of now and will kill the value of the plane going forward and will probably cost more to complete. The best thing about a lycoming is that no matter what podunk airport i land at, i can find a mechanic that can work on it and probably has most gaskets and parts in stock. I have seen a lot of engine companies come and go in 40 years, but lycoming is still here.

Good luck with your choice
 
Seems from your impressive RVs owned list that you've flown enough Lycomings for a lifetime. Maybe it's a good time to try a different engine flavor if you're not planning on doing a bunch of aerobatics.

I say the UL will make things different and more interesting/ challenging and maybe that would be a good thing after all those other Lyco RVs.

RVs and most other aircraft are not great investment return vehicles, they're to enjoy and have fun with.
 
My thought is if you have to make that decision by tomorrow, then any decision you make you will second guess yourself forever.

Good luck.
 
I concur with Rocky and Titenhawk. If you have to decide that quickly take a conservative approach to it.

Frankly, I don't see an upside to the UL/electric prop choice. And if there are any, it would have already manifested itself across our community.

Dave
 
I assume you've spoken with Ray Lawrence? Offhand, Ray is the only guy I know with ULPower on an RV. 478-232-9560
 
Engine

How bout if you want a 6 cylinder stuffing a Lycoming in there with really low compression pistons were your making around 220 hp and you can burn any octane auto gas or 100LL and still have a super reliable engine.
 
... Maybe it's a good time to try a different engine flavor if you're not planning on doing a bunch of aerobatics...

From their website: http://ulpower.com/en/engines/ul520/ul520isa

"The UL520iSA is the ultimate aerobatics engine.
A modified engine casing, oil sump and oil pick up system, designed by our very own ULPower team, and an additional inverted oil system allows the ULPower engines to fly inverted.

This inverted oil system copes with potential greasing issues. The oil pick-up tube in the oil sump is mounted with a hinge joint. While climbing or diving up to an angle of 90?, the oil pump can pick up the oil from the sump without any problem.
The oil inverted valve can change the pick-up direction while climbing or inverted flying, this means that the oil is coming from the top of the engine casing (which is now the lowest point). The large (but light) ?oil air breather? prevents the oil from leaving the engine.

The fuel injection system (instead of carburetor) prevents the engine from stopping or losing fuel when flying inverted.
IMPORTANT REMARK: modification in your fuel tank is needed to prevent engine from sucking air.

Thanks to our electronic RPM limiter, ULPower engines can fly inverted for hours and hours without danger of over-running.

Oil capacity : Oil sump must be filled with at least 4 liter oil (0.US gal)."



I sure would like to hear more about the ULpowered RV-4
 
They list their maximum power at 3300 rpm - well above what most props are rated for.
 
From their website: http://ulpower.com/en/engines/ul520/ul520isa

"The UL520iSA is the ultimate aerobatics engine.
A modified engine casing, oil sump and oil pick up system, designed by our very own ULPower team, and an additional inverted oil system allows the ULPower engines to fly inverted.

This inverted oil system copes with potential greasing issues. The oil pick-up tube in the oil sump is mounted with a hinge joint. While climbing or diving up to an angle of 90?, the oil pump can pick up the oil from the sump without any problem.
The oil inverted valve can change the pick-up direction while climbing or inverted flying, this means that the oil is coming from the top of the engine casing (which is now the lowest point). The large (but light) ?oil air breather? prevents the oil from leaving the engine.

The fuel injection system (instead of carburetor) prevents the engine from stopping or losing fuel when flying inverted.
IMPORTANT REMARK: modification in your fuel tank is needed to prevent engine from sucking air.

Thanks to our electronic RPM limiter, ULPower engines can fly inverted for hours and hours without danger of over-running.

Oil capacity : Oil sump must be filled with at least 4 liter oil (0.US gal)."



I sure would like to hear more about the ULpowered RV-4

I know the UL engine has been used in Europe for aerobatics, I was more concerned that the electric prop may not be so great for that purpose. Some like the MT have a relatively slow pitch change mechanism.
 
The Lord declares that "There is Wisdom in a multitude of Counselors" I believe Him!

Fire away, Im all ears!!

Tango

There is wisdom only if there is consensus. Beyond that lies confusion.

You have been involved with 6 RV projects, why is this such a tough decision?

Or are bored with Lycoming?

If so, go for it. I've been there and done that. :)

It was an interesting, expensive experience. :(
 
I do like the idea of the UL engine. I was think of one for a Wittman Tailwind. I think you better look close at the weight and balance with that engine. Most RV7's are a little tail heavy with an O-360 and a fixed pitch composit prop. Take another 50 lbs off the nose and you may not be able to carry much baggage. Just my 2 cents.

Brian
 
He'll need a custom mount anyways, so pushing the engine forward to maintain C of G is a given. Think of the sleek custom turbine looking cowling he will end up with.
 
There's a FWF kit for the RV-7 from Kaolin Aviation Services LLC, including the mount, no *need* to go full custom ...
 
UL Power

Hi

I am currently rebuilding my RV9. My plan was to remove the 0-320 from my RV4 complete with sensenich prop and put them in the 9. Then buy an 0-340 and a whirlwind prop and stick that in my 4.

Then I heard about the UL engine........ 40 lbs lighter and either 180 or 200 HP.
Now that is very interesting. I then read AXO's comments about his 0-340 which have put me off that engine.

The UL engine sounds great until you factor in the revised engine mount, 11 inch longer cowl, although I understand these will be available from the UL supplier. The problem is that RV's were designed to accept heavy (by UL standards) engines.

Saving 40 lbs is great, six cylinder smoothness is great and provided the conversion kit ( engine mount extension, cowl are available from UL) it should not add too much work. However, what effect having the moment of inertia from the prop 11 inches further forward from the C of G would have during aerobatics is well beyond my ability to calculate.

I do know that Ray at UL is negotiating to buy an RV7 as a test bed, so he is the man to speak to.
 
Ray was working on engine mounts, cowlings, etc when we did some FWF hoses for his Rv4.
I think RV conversions are still in the prototype stage--we know ---kinda-- what the FWF hoses will be, but nothing set in stone.

Tom
 
However, what effect having the moment of inertia from the prop 11 inches further forward from the C of G would have during aerobatics is well beyond my ability to calculate.

Valid questions that should be considered.

Probably deserving even bigger consideration is what it might do to spin recovery? Particularly at more aft C.G. positions.
Even if the moment of inertia isn't much different that it is with the Lyc., the additional flat plate area of the much longer cowl, fwd of the C.G. still has the potential to negatively influence spin recovery.

All stuff to consider when experimenting.........
 
Rocket

As I'm also considering to install ? UL power engine on my RV7 project, My question on the 3-4 previous reply is: the rocket has also a longer cowling ... so why th? UL RV7 will perform less aerobatics than a Rocket??
 
As I'm also considering to install ? UL power engine on my RV7 project, My question on the 3-4 previous reply is: the rocket has also a longer cowling ... so why th? UL RV7 will perform less aerobatics than a Rocket??

I was one of the last posts but I didn't say it would have less performance doing aerobatics.

I said it could have an influence on the spin recovery characteristics.

Yes the rocket has a longer cowl than the RV-4, but it also has a different fuselage so it is not a good comparison to just making the cowl longer on an RV-7.
 
Hi

I am currently rebuilding my RV9. My plan was to remove the 0-320 from my RV4 complete with sensenich prop and put them in the 9. Then buy an 0-340 and a whirlwind prop and stick that in my 4.

I believe you had the WAM diesel in your RV9, did you not? Why are you removing it, I thought that package was working quite well for you?
 
Change from Wam 120 to Lycosaurus or UL

Hi,

The Wam 120 was performing well, but one of our group took off without checking the fuel and water in the tank stopped the engine and she was damaged in the subsequent forced landing.

Wilksch had developed a big bore version which did away with the need to replace pre combustion chambers every 50 hours and which was rated for a bit more power. However, this to my knowledge has not gone into production.

So, the rebuild will be much easier with a Lycosaurus. I have gone down the route of designing a firewall forward for a new engine. It adds a lot of time to the build which is why I said a FWF kit would be a great advantage.

It would be nice to see an RV designed around this lighter engine.
 
Hi,

The Wam 120 was performing well, but one of our group took off without checking the fuel and water in the tank stopped the engine and she was damaged in the subsequent forced landing.

Wilksch had developed a big bore version which did away with the need to replace pre combustion chambers every 50 hours and which was rated for a bit more power. However, this to my knowledge has not gone into production.

So, the rebuild will be much easier with a Lycosaurus. I have gone down the route of designing a firewall forward for a new engine. It adds a lot of time to the build which is why I said a FWF kit would be a great advantage.

It would be nice to see an RV designed around this lighter engine.

I am saddened to hear of your engine stoppage and damage, yours was one of the few packages that I followed closely through development. Please keep us advised here with news about the new Wilksch design as it proceeds.
 
Gents,

All of your input was considered and I am grateful for it all.

After much contimplation and thought my decision has been made and I have decided to move forward with a complete brand new UL Power 200Hp FWF..New Engine, 3 Blade Airmaster electric constant speed prop and new extended sleek cowling. It will be the first RV7A outfitted with this set up. We hope to have it at Sun n Fun for all to see the progress so stop by the UL Power Tent in Paradise City.

The work has already begun.

It will be a work of Art.

My plan is to detail its progress here on the Forum for all to see, advise, and give input on as it unfolds.

A new thread will be started with details and pics (Ive got to figure out how to post them??..haven't had much success in the past)

Anyway, thanks to all again for the thoughtful input.

Now let us get on it!!! See you all in the New Thread that's coming.
 
Thanks

I'm really pleased you are taking this route and I hope the UL engine package ultimately develops into a reliable mainstream product, if only for the 6 cylinder sound and smoothness. :)
 
Yep

Tim, Iv'e also decided on the UL engine for my -12. I've been around Ray a lot and have learned probably more than most, all about the UL engines and they are bulletproof. Very modern engineering is what I see.

Best,
 
Hi Tim,

We are 2 builders in Switzerland that are looking on the possibility to install the same package as your choice in our projects!
I will fly to Florida in March and I will be at Sun n Fun this year again and really hope you will be there with your RV7 to look at it!?
Keep me updated and we will meet us there!

Nicolas
 
Hey Guys!

So Im about to start a new thread on the project so look for it soon. New firwall forward has started and engine has been mounted..Holy Cow! Its gonna be so sweet!!

For this post Im going to try and insert a pic of the plane the day we picked it up before any work was complete.

This is just to test my ability to get it right. I have always seemed to have trouble in that catagory. So here it goes...Any direct help here would be apprieciated with point for point directions. If the pic shows up...well then that means I got it right.

Stand By

Tango
 
Im gonna let you all take a look for a while then try to delete the pic all together later tonight. Will be back to check in for comments about 7:30 tonight.
 
Here is the 'huge thumbnail' version via IMGUR. You can delete the one above :)

DcYq43Dh.jpg
 
Looks like I figured it out. I can just resize the pic on my computer then upload the already resized pic to tinypic and post in the "reply"

BAM!!!

New thread coming soon on this project.

Thanks again Ray!

Tango
 
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