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  #1  
Old 11-09-2013, 09:31 AM
Tessmacher Tessmacher is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: At home!
Posts: 5
Default Cockpit setup...

Hi!

I've narrowed down to the -12, and another aircraft kit, but I have some questions about setting things up a little differently in the cockpit.

I've put in two photos showing (a) a panel "shape", and (b) a throttle quadrant lever in the console between the seats.





Anyone have any input on how viable (easy to do, potential problems, etc.) this type of thing might be?

I really like the angled center section of the first panel, and I also like the way the throttle lever setup is in the second. I had the standard push-pull in the panel of the 172 I learned in, and hated it. I could never get comfortable with it.

I'd appreciate any and all discussion and input!
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  #2  
Old 11-09-2013, 09:57 AM
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DonFromTX DonFromTX is offline
 
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Default

Since the 12 has a center console ideally suited for such a throttle, it would be a breeze to do that. However, with the Rotax and the spring loaded to wide open action, not sure how well it would work out.
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  #3  
Old 11-09-2013, 09:59 AM
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Mike S Mike S is offline
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Default Welcome to VAF!

Ed, welcome aboard the good ship VAF.

You can make the changes you would like, but it will take the RV 12, (or any other plane) into the experimental category.

Mel, or one of the others here who speak the FAA "alphabet soup" stuff can explain better than I do, but it is something to consider.

Bottom line is that it is doable for sure, but there are side effects you need to be aware of.

Most folks here will tell you to build the plane you want, not what others think you should build.

Good to have you aboard.
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  #4  
Old 11-09-2013, 12:03 PM
skydiverlv skydiverlv is offline
 
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Location: kansas
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With the 12 you must very careful when altering any part of the center tunnel or the avionics bay shelf/cover. These items are integral to the ridgidity of the frontal area/engine mounting. You should only consider doing such if you have and engineering background or have access to someone who has such experience.
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  #5  
Old 11-09-2013, 12:27 PM
Tessmacher Tessmacher is offline
 
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Posts: 5
Default Dang... that was FAST...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike S View Post
Ed, welcome aboard the good ship VAF.

You can make the changes you would like, but it will take the RV 12, (or any other plane) into the experimental category.

Mel, or one of the others here who speak the FAA "alphabet soup" stuff can explain better than I do, but it is something to consider.

Bottom line is that it is doable for sure, but there are side effects you need to be aware of.

Most folks here will tell you to build the plane you want, not what others think you should build.

Good to have you aboard.
Thank you for the kind welcome!

I was pretty sure it would take it into the EAB category, but if it still meets the LSA reqs it can be flown by a Sport Pilot, I think. At least, I'm fairly sure until I get to post on a forum...

Somehow I got it in my mind that if I did it E-LSA, then I could make a change after the fact, and still be legal. Common sense reared it's head, and said "why would you not do it while building, when it's easier?" Dang that little voice... It's got me in trouble a couple of times over the years.

I'd also instead likely mount the Jabiru 3300. A little more simple with no reduction drive, higher HP, easier maintenance, and so on. I've read a lot of the debates about the two powerplants, and I'm comfortable with that choice. I also seem to recall reading somewhere on this forum that someone had put a 3300 on the -12, so I wouldn't be reinventing the wheel by myself...

Then again, when one gets to be my age, the memory is the second thing to go... Darned if I can remember what went first... What was I talking about?

I've also thought about after-market fuel-injection, provided I can find enough data on it to make myself comfortable with the thought. I flew with a friend a couple of years ago, right after he bought a Czech SportCruiser, and really liked the throttle-lever location on the console.

Thanks for the very quick reply!
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  #6  
Old 11-09-2013, 12:28 PM
Tessmacher Tessmacher is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by skydiverlv View Post
With the 12 you must very careful when altering any part of the center tunnel or the avionics bay shelf/cover. These items are integral to the ridgidity of the frontal area/engine mounting. You should only consider doing such if you have and engineering background or have access to someone who has such experience.
Rats... I was hoping that wouldn't be the case...

Thanks!
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  #7  
Old 11-09-2013, 02:58 PM
sandpiper sandpiper is offline
 
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Location: Independence, OR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonFromTX View Post
Since the 12 has a center console ideally suited for such a throttle, it would be a breeze to do that. However, with the Rotax and the spring loaded to wide open action, not sure how well it would work out.
It works very well in the Flight Design CT which is also spring loaded to WOT. Throttle is very easy to move and it stays put. There is no friction to mess with on a routine basis. I have had to adjust friction once in 6.5 years which is done by removing the center console cover and using a wrench to adjust. It's a 5 minute job and, again, rarely needs adjustment.
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  #8  
Old 11-09-2013, 04:20 PM
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Bill_H Bill_H is offline
 
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Location: Peel, AR
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Default

Your big issue is that the flap handle takes up all the room between the seats! If you were going to build a center console to house throttles, you would have to deal with the access panels that are normally below that area, and the fuel shutoff valve. You would also sacrifice some legroom and affect the nice roomy feel of the cockpit. I suggest a ride in one if you have not done that yet.

I too "prefer" console mounted throttles in other planes, but remember that many aspects of the -12 design are weight-based as well as on simplicity. A console will add weight and require longer throttle cables (dual carbs on the Rotax and also the dual "starting carb" cable).
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  #9  
Old 11-09-2013, 06:23 PM
yankee-flyer yankee-flyer is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 838
Cool Bill has the biggie

As shown in the photos, there's no place for the '12's manual flap handle, Since that handle operated the flaperon mixer, going to electric flaps wouldn't be simple. At first guess, it would take a lot of re-work to the flap/aileron system. Once you had the airworthiness certificate, it's a change you could probably make and not go out of the E-LSA category since the weight wouldn't change much and if you do it right the stall speeds and max speed shouldn't change. but since there's no way to open the canopy in flight, I DON'T think I'd want to be the test pilot on the controllability test flights!

Yes, it could be done, and no, I wouldn't do it.

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  #10  
Old 11-09-2013, 08:32 PM
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Bill_H Bill_H is offline
 
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If you built up some kind of console between the seats and going forward to the panel, you could maybe mount a servomoter inside and add a linkage that would take the place of the flap handle, leaving the flaperon mixer "alone." I think you would be spending at least dozens to a couple hundred hours + in design and fabrication though.

Simpler would be to maybe leave the flap handle area alone and mount a piper-style throttle quad under the panel.
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