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  #1  
Old 11-04-2017, 10:47 AM
sritchie sritchie is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 96
Default Milspec Cam-loc installation sequence confusion

Hey all,

I've spent the day poring over various threads and the instructions for my full RV10 milspec camloc installation kit, and there are a few hopefully obvious questions that I just cannot figure out. I'd love help with answers, or links to the resources that I wasn't able to find here.

1. I'm at the point now where it looks like I need to make the flanges that go around the full edge of the firewall. In many of the build logs I've found, it looks like folks are somehow installing the camloc receptacles BEFORE mounting the cowling. How is this possible? Don't you need to wait to match-drill the cowling before you can mount the receptables? What am I missing?

2. The kit comes with 36 fixed receptables and 26 adjustable (floating?) receptables. The plans make no mention of where to use 1 vs the other. Do folks have good guidelines here?

3. I also can't see how I'm going to use all of these receptacles. There are 62 total receptacles, and various pictures I've found show ~32 used for the firewall flange, and another 18 (9 per side) used for the cowl. That's 12 that are unaccounted for. Does milspec include extras just for fun?

Here's my current plan of action:
1. test-fit the top cowling and mark the split
2. cut my flanges out of .050" and get them match-drilled into the firewall
3. roughly lay out the locations of the cam locks every 3.75", making sure to align one camloc with what'll end up being the line of camlocs down the side of the cowl
4. drill holes for the camlocs with the small template, ie do NOT drill the center hole out for the receptacle yet
5. scallop between the camloc receptacles
6. rivet all the flanges on to the firewall now
7. WAIT and mount the actual receptacles etc for when it's time to mount the cowling for good.

Does this sound right? This still doesn't answer how many of the damned things I need, where to use fixed vs floating or what to do with all the extra camlocs.

Thank you all in advance - I'm sure this is documented somewhere, but heck if I could track it down.
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  #2  
Old 11-04-2017, 01:37 PM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 719
Default Info

You might check out the skybolt.com website. They have instructions for installing their product. I used the skybolt system with their remade flanges and I couldn't be happier. It turned out beautiful...I used them for the firewall and the side joints as well.

http://skybolt.com/wp-content/upload...-7-12-2017.pdf
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Aerospace Engineer '88

RV-10
Structure - 90% Done
Cabin Top - Aaarrghhh...
Doors - Done
On Gear
290 HP Barrett Hung
ShowPlanes Cowl with Skybolts Fitted - Beautiful

Dues Paid 2016,...Thanks DR+
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  #3  
Old 11-04-2017, 02:10 PM
sritchie sritchie is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 96
Default

Bob, that's really helpful for the spacing questions, and for seeing how one would choose locations for each of the flanges.

I'm still not sure that that gives me 62 - I've asked the milspec folks on their support email, so we'll see what comes back.

Also not sure how to think about floating vs fixed.

Anyhow! Thanks again. It looks like I should probably get the cowling down and roughly aligned before picking my locations here so that I can have that final camloc aligned.

The instructions seem so much better for the skybolts that I'm surprised at the equally great reviews for each product.
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  #4  
Old 11-04-2017, 02:21 PM
Kyle Boatright Kyle Boatright is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,896
Default

Did the Milspec folks list a recommended strip width for the strip which holds the receptacles? I don't see one in the Skybolt instructions.
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2001 RV-6 N46KB
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  #5  
Old 11-04-2017, 02:46 PM
sritchie sritchie is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 96
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Yeah, I think they list 1.5" as the exposed flange width for the firewall pieces, and 2.5" total (with 1.5" exposed) for the metal flange that joins the two halves of the cowl.
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  #6  
Old 11-04-2017, 03:33 PM
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maniago maniago is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Bowie MD
Posts: 346
Default

Dude,
yes, this is wicked frustrating and yes I am literally doing this right now, about 5 or 6 steps ahead of you. If you want I'll send you my build log and tho I'm not building a -10, the concept is the same and the sequence is the same....and I had to figure out what that was cause its explained no where.

I havent ever been able to post pics to VAF successfully, so I'm no help that way but can send you any pic I have no problem.

PM me a good email address and if you want well converse off line, or facetime if youd like. I posted today about inner cowl paint and got a bunch of help. Prob a step you havent thought about, but its part of the sequence also.

Mick
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Bushby Mustang II (building); IO-360B1E, C2YR-BF/F7666-2, Superior cold sump, James cowl
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  #7  
Old 11-04-2017, 03:44 PM
Rupester Rupester is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mahomet, Illinois
Posts: 2,161
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Not trying to sound like a smart a**, but I followed the instructions that came with my MIlspec kit and had no problems. IIRC, I center drilled 1/8" Center holes in the .050 strip at each fastener location, then put a light inside/underneath to locate the holes in the cowl. The raw fiberglass on my Sam James cowl showed the lighted spots really well. More than anything, I recall the importance of locating the fastener centers on both The .050 strips and cowl before installing any of the MIlspec parts.
And BTW, I love the fasteners.... wouldn't trade 'em for the world. Takes me exactly 3 min to remove my top cowl.
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  #8  
Old 11-04-2017, 04:03 PM
sritchie sritchie is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 96
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupester View Post
Not trying to sound like a smart a**, but I followed the instructions that came with my MIlspec kit and had no problems. IIRC, I center drilled 1/8" Center holes in the .050 strip at each fastener location, then put a light inside/underneath to locate the holes in the cowl. The raw fiberglass on my Sam James cowl showed the lighted spots really well. More than anything, I recall the importance of locating the fastener centers on both The .050 strips and cowl before installing any of the MIlspec parts.
The latter comment is great and makes sense. What's surprising me in so many build logs is that people seem to be installing the camloc parts without ever touching the cowl. That part of the build sequence seems great now. I'm not ready for the cowl, so I'll build the flanges, rivet them on, mark the locations and wait to drill until I'm ready for the cowl.

Rupester, the plans don't address my two main questions:

1. What's the difference between the fixed and floating receptacles, and how do we decide where to use each?
2. Did you use EVERY receptacle provided in your kit or did you end with extras?

How did you address those?
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  #9  
Old 11-04-2017, 09:38 PM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 719
Default Camlocs

The fixed receptacles are just that; the receptacle doesn’t move within its mount. The floating ones can move a bit within their mount.

The spacing on the skybolts was 3 1/2”. CEnter to Center. The nested flanges made this very easy. I did not end up using every camloc. I am not familiar with the milspec product but I really liked the ability to adjust and set the depth of each receptacle individually.

You can check out mykitlog.com for pix of my install. Just search for builders in Sunman Indiana. I am the only builder here.
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Aerospace Engineer '88

RV-10
Structure - 90% Done
Cabin Top - Aaarrghhh...
Doors - Done
On Gear
290 HP Barrett Hung
ShowPlanes Cowl with Skybolts Fitted - Beautiful

Dues Paid 2016,...Thanks DR+
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  #10  
Old 11-05-2017, 09:06 AM
Bob Martin's Avatar
Bob Martin Bob Martin is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 983
Default Fix vs float

Think of the mil spec units like nut plates....fixed or floating nutplates, same thought as to location.

The float is a tiny bit but could add up.
Imagine floating units everywhere, the cowling could move around a bit.
Best place for fixed is middle top and all of the bottom. To keep the nose of the cowling at the right place. Also the verticals of the bottom cowl is a good place for some fixed for left to right stability. That leaves the curves and the curves are where you will appreaciate some adjustablity or float in the receptical. So, put some fixed on top and bottom for sure, all curves should have floating and you can figure out the rest. It is good to have some extras...for parts later as you drop or lose pieces in the process.

I have done two James Cowl retrofits from Vans cowlings and used Mil-spec all around. I made my scolloped firewall pieces from sheet metal and left them undrilled until the final fit of the cowl was complete. When I needed to pin the cowling halves as the fitting process progressed I would drill holes thru the cowl and metal tab and cleco them in place. If I needed to adjust something I just drilled another hole and abandoned the first hole then clecoed again until I was happy with the fit, then proceeded to drill the final holes in the center of the assembly by first drilling an 1/8" hole then upsizing the pieces to their respective sizes. You can easily fill the cleco holes in the finishing process.
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RV-6, 0-360 Hartzell C/S, Tip up, 1150+TT
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D100-KMD150-660-TT ADI2- AS air/oil seperator. Vetterman exhaust with turndown tips.
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Last edited by Bob Martin : 11-05-2017 at 09:09 AM.
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