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  #1  
Old 10-20-2017, 02:22 PM
sheldon957's Avatar
sheldon957 sheldon957 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Wellington, FL
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Default RV14 Aerobatic Entry Speeds

I have a decent amount of aerobatic training in a Super Decathlon, so I am interested if anyone has any recommended entry speeds for the RV-14 for basic maneuvers?

I own N214PS, (RV-14A) and have about 25 hours in it so far. I have flown wing overs, Aileron Rolls, stalls, spins and attempted side slips.



First observations and comparisons to the Super D:

Aileron Rolls: It rolls MUCH quicker than the SD. Not quite twice as fast, but close. I believe it is somewhere around 2.5 seconds compared to 4+ for the SD.

Stalls: All very docile, better handling than the SD, less likely to drop a wing tip. No bad habits either power off or power on. I have only spun it 1-1 times. Easy to lose 800-1000' for 1 on my first efforts with a 2G pullout.

Spins: Willingly enters the spins equally to the SD, easy recovery, HOWEVER it gets speed in a hurry and loses altitude quickly. WAY more than the Super D.

Wing overs: Flies them normally. I am better at them in the Super D so far, but I have way more experience in it.

Side Slips: I can't make it work so far. I can side slip the SD like crazy all the way down to over the numbers. Maybe it is the extra drag on the SD that makes it work so well. I bank the 14, put in full opposite rudder and it stays normal side slip attitude for 1-2 seconds and then starts turning. I will have to work on it some more I guess. Anyone have hints on it?
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  #2  
Old 10-20-2017, 03:04 PM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Location: Hubbard Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheldon957 View Post
I bank the 14, put in full opposite rudder and it stays normal side slip attitude for 1-2 seconds and then starts turning. I will have to work on it some more I guess. Anyone have hints on it?
A side slip involves a balance of aileron and rudder input.

If it turns in the direction of the full rudder input then you aren't inputting enough aileron or you are using too much rudder for that amount of aileron).

If it turns in the direction of aileron input, then you have to much aileron input for the amount of rudder input.
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  #3  
Old 10-20-2017, 03:06 PM
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sheldon957 sheldon957 is offline
 
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Thanks Scott. I'll work on it again for sure. Maybe too much Site Picture/muscle memory from the Super D interfering.
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  #4  
Old 10-20-2017, 08:59 PM
TimO TimO is offline
 
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I'm having good luck with many of the maneuvers with entry speeds around 165kts. I've tried a little slower, but not a lot slower. Would love to hear how others are doing with theirs as well. I should note that for the Split-S, I definitely do NOT use that speed...something more like 95kts is more where I have been shooting for lately. I started out with them too fast.
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RV-10 N104CD - Flying 2/2006 - 1200+ hours http://www.MyRV10.com
RV-14 N14YT - Flying 6/2016 - 150+ hours http://www.MyRV14.com
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  #5  
Old 10-21-2017, 05:15 PM
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sheldon957 sheldon957 is offline
 
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Tim,

Thank for the info. Just for clarification, Did you intend to use Knots & not MPH? I do notice that the 14 picks up speed very quickly on any down line. Do you cut back on the throttle, say for the Cuban 8, hammerhead, loop or humpty?

Loved your video's by the way. Very nice to have your daughter solo in it after helping build it!
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  #6  
Old 10-21-2017, 10:14 PM
TimO TimO is offline
 
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I haven't done a hammerhead, and I guess I'm not familiar with what a humpty is. I do only use Knots. It does pick up speed very quickly anytime it's headed down, you have that right. I had a friend botch an aileron roll at 120kts or so and turn it into a split-S....we were at VNE and 4.1G's on the pull out as I recovered for him and I didn't waste any time. (Vne the way Van's means it...TAS. Indicated we were something like 186kts). I would rather not do that again.

I did cut the throttle back after the top of the loop, and that dropped the nose and gave slower speeds on the down side, but from the ground the wife didn't like hearing the engine backfire like it tends to when you pull a lot into of power off, so I've been only slightly reducing it now. I would say reduce it maybe for the first few and then reduce it less as you practice. I generally am only in the 120-135kt range when pulling out of the loop on the way down, they way it's been working for me now. For half-Cubans I don't pull back much, mainly because I tend to pick up speed and then pull another maneuver once I hit the target speed.

Some day maybe I should do a video and see if I can document some flight parameters on video, or from the log monitor. I haven't done a video for a while now...but I'm getting itchy to do another.

For the loops, BTW, and your mileage may vary depending on if our g meters match up or not, but I find around 2.8-3 on the pull seems to work well for me. I was expecting more but I don't use the 3.5-4 that I sometimes read about.

Thanks on the note about my daughter. I'm very happy every time I see her fly. She hasn't flown the RV's for a month but I took her out in an arrow to show her what a heavy controlled retract feels like. She did well but says it makes her feel like she's driving a bus. Our RV's are so much more fun....if only all pilots got a chance to experience the beauty of a plane that Van's designs.
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RV-14 N14YT - Flying 6/2016 - 150+ hours http://www.MyRV14.com
RV-10/14 Transition Training: http://www.RVCFI.com

Last edited by TimO : 10-21-2017 at 10:16 PM.
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  #7  
Old 10-22-2017, 06:09 AM
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mike newall mike newall is offline
 
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If you use all the published speeds for the RV7/8 you will be in the ballpark.

Top tip - unless you have at least a half Raven, make hammerheads at 85 not vertical else your belly will be wet

Also, if you do not have FI, make them less spirited else your motor will stop

Yep, that really got my attention just before I put the rudder in..... pushed forward instead and descended through a miasmic haze of oil
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  #8  
Old 10-22-2017, 12:51 PM
TimO TimO is offline
 
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Do you have a link to those published speeds? I don't think I've ever come across anything published.
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RV-10 N104CD - Flying 2/2006 - 1200+ hours http://www.MyRV10.com
RV-14 N14YT - Flying 6/2016 - 150+ hours http://www.MyRV14.com
RV-10/14 Transition Training: http://www.RVCFI.com
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  #9  
Old 10-22-2017, 01:52 PM
luddite42 luddite42 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimO View Post
For the loops, BTW, and your mileage may vary depending on if our g meters match up or not, but I find around 2.8-3 on the pull seems to work well for me. I was expecting more but I don't use the 3.5-4 that I sometimes read about.
You can do a loop at whatever G will get you over the top without whip stalling. Not much of a loop, but unless you're attempting to do actually do them round, then they are just varying degrees of a cursive 'L'. You won't do a round loop at 3.5G either. Takes a little more. 99% of RV aero pilots have never come close to a real round loop anyway, so don't sweat it. And don't sweat other entry speeds either, it just doesn't matter except for snaps and split S's. 99% of RV aero pilots don't do snaps either, so forget about that. Use whatever works and gets is done. There's a very wide range that works for the basic maneuvers. Unless you're trying to fly to some sort of precision standard, it's just wallowing around for fun.
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Old 10-22-2017, 02:37 PM
spatsch spatsch is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimO View Post
Do you have a link to those published speeds? I don't think I've ever come across anything published.
Here you go:

Loops, Horizontal Eights 140-190 MPH
Immelman Turns 150-190
Aileron Rolls, Barrel Rolls 120-190
Snap Rolls 80-110
Vertical Rolls 180-190
Split-S 100-110

I have no first hand experience in a 14 but if it is anyway like an 8 I agree with Rick it doesn't really matter to much unless somebody is scoring you. I rolled my 8 at 90mph and 200mph and it goes around at either speed. Loops I manage down to 110mph slower I fall out on top. If it's just for fun leveled cruse speed is a good starting point. No reason to dive or speed up in an RV. Also fun to start with loops let's say at 150mph and go slower in 5mph increments until you fall out. Teaches you a lot about how your airplane handles.

FYI the best book on the topic I ever read is Better Aerobatics by Alan Cassidy. Even walks you through debugging your mistakes.

Oliver
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