Rotax training

I am very interested in taking a couple of the courses on Rotax service and line maintenance for the 912ULS in my RV-12. However, in my case travel & affordability are issues. I also notice that the credential(s) rendered by these courses expire, and one would need to re-attend periodically.

I was led to believe that I can maintain & inspect my own ELSA with the Light Sport Repairman (Inspector) certificate I have. Does this include oil changes, carb synch, compression testing, etc. on my engine? Will I have warranty issues down the road if I maintain my own engine without taking the Rotax training?

Jim

Your Repairman Certificate allows you to do the annual condition inspection. Anyone can legally work on an experimental airplane, which includes an E-LSA, even the high school kid who lives down the street and works on cars. And this includes working on the engine. I do not know about the engine warranty.
Joe Gores

Hi Jim,


Since you have an ELSA you can do all maint. Then take the FAA approved 2 day class or if you already have you repairman's builders certificate you can do the inspections on your plane too. After all the things we see gone wrong on people working on the Rotax without training I highly recommend taking the Rotax Service and Line maint. classes.
Any preventative maint. listed in the FAR's you are allowed to do even on SLSA. MFG's can not give away or remove any thing already listed in the FAR's. Then each MFG usually has a list of what a mechanic or owner can do for specifics. No one can overwrite the FAR's though. This was an FAA legal ruling that came out about 4-5 years ago.

As an LSRM-A (3 week course usually taken with Rainbow Aviation in Corning, CA) you could do your own and any other LSA annuals or inspections. If you have an ELSA you can take the FAA approved 16 hr. two day course and do just your own inspections. Anyone can work on an experimental between inspections.
Mechanics are for all SLSA's inspections and a lot of the maint., but you can still do the FAR listed preventative maint.

Take the Rotax courses if you can it will give you lots of good info. As far as the 2 year updates go you do not need them to preform work. You do need them if you want to stay authorized and current with Rotax. That said they do teach new things that get changed within that two year period.

Make sure you have all 5 Rotax manuals and of course your RV maint. manual for references. These are your Bible's for all your maint.

I would recommend the Service class and the Line Maint. class.


p.s.
I did a re-write for the Rotax Service class and hope soon to offer this as a two day in the hangar with a live engine learning on how to preform and annual from start to finish and the class can go mobile. Still working on a few details with Rotax so this particular version isn't offered at this time.

If you get stumped on a Rotax maint. item just grab a phone and I'm sure any Rotax tech anywhere will be more than happy to help and this quick call may save you tons of work time and un-needed cost.

Good luck and have fun on your new adventure.

roger lee said:

I did a re-write for the Rotax Service class and hope soon to offer this as a two day in the hangar with a live engine learning on how to perform an annual from start to finish and the class can go mobile. Still working on a few details with Rotax so this particular version isn't offered at this time.

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Very interested in this Roger.
Please keep up informed on the status of such a coarse.

This was written so you could go to some place like CPS or if you have a group like an EAA chapter or other group then the instructor can go to them. This class would have a lot less in classroom time and most of it in the hangar. Hope to have it nailed down soon.

Roger, is this for all Rotax engines, or specific to one model??

I am interested in 582 training.

There is a two stroke two day class at the front of the 912 class days.
It is set up as follows:
The first 2 days for two stroke
then 2 days for 912 service
then 2 days for line maint.
then 3 days for heavy maint. if you have at least two years of Rotax experience

I highly recommend every Rotax owner go to a school or if you have a Rotax tech freind spend some real time with them in some on the job type training. I go to shops and places now to help teach some of these people.

Back to the beginning of the thread: I have Light Sport Repairman (inspector) as I said to begin with. And yes, I know I can do all maintenance and condition inspection. And I understand that any fool can work on an Experimental aircraft. I have no concerns with the FARs.

The thing is, Rotax has this maintenance schedule on the engine that really doesn't line up AT ALL with the annual condition inspection, unless the operator happens to fly EXACTLY 25/50/100 hours a year. And the checklist on these periodic engine inspections becomes more & more convoluted, with carb synch, prop gearbox torque test, compression check, etc. not to mention the
ever-growing list of Service Bulletins, such as inspecting the carb floats which apparently don't float but rather sink in some cases.

So I envision this scenario down the road where there's a serious warranty issue with my $28,000 powerplant and Rotax balks because the maintenance wasn't performed & logged my a certified Rotax mechanic. Easy to say I should take these courses. But as I said in the initial thread starter, the cost of travelling and taking the course(s) is steep, not to mention the fact that the credential expires quickly, putting the builder/owner/pilot right back in the same conundrum 24 months down the road. So, yes or no: is the Rotax warranty valid if all line maintenance and SBs are performed by someone without Rotax training? Stick to the topic.

JRo

So, yes or no: is the Rotax warranty valid if all line maintenance and SBs are performed by someone without Rotax training? Stick to the topic.

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Yes!

Since you are legal to sign off all work done in your log books as a Repairman you will have no problems. Consider joining rotax-owner.com web site to access their videos for light maintenance on your engine.

Hi Jim,


So long as you follow the RV manual and the Rotax manual you should not have any warranty or other issues. It's usually when people fail to follow the MFG recommendations that they run into problems.
I would highly recommend taking a class, but if not just make sure you have the manuals on hand and have the engine registered so you will get all the new bulletins and if you run into any problems call a Rotax tech right up front. This can save you time and money. If you want you can call me anytime.
The FAA annual inspection month may not line up with the hours and that's normal. So start your logbook out every time like this.

"In accordance with the Van's RV12 and Rotax maintenance manuals this aircraft was inspected for its 100 hr. and Annual Condition Inspection."

Absolutely make sure you do the Rotax 25 hr. inspection because that is a mandatory inspection to keep the warranty and the engine must be registered. You can use the Line maint. manual check list to help document the 25 hr. along with the logbook. Depending on the hours you fly you may never line up both inspection times.
Always sign off both inspections at the same time. They are very close to identical. There are a few differences, but you can include all of them each time or note why one may not be due until a certain time. Signing both off at one time keeps from having to do separate inspections.

The FAA does not care how often you do an annual. You could do one every month, but after the last one it is good for 12 months. Rotax doesn't really care about the exact 100 hour time mark, but when you do that inspection it is due 100 hours later.

On my plane I fly more than 100 hrs. per year so I always get to the 100 hr. first so I do the 100 hr. and include the annual. This resets both times for a fresh cycle.

So do it like this.
If you fly more than 100 hrs. a year then you will reach that mark first so do the 100 hr. and then include/sign off the annual.

If you fly less than 100 hours a year (i.e. 75 hrs) then you will get to the annual first, but sign off the 100 hour too.

I have talked to both parties (the FAA and Rotax) and neither care.

Rotax and the FAA rely heavily on the lookbook and check list if you have them as proof that thing were done since they can't stand there and watch.

I always use a Rotax Line maint. inspection check list and a Van's RV12 check list. These both get signed off for everything inspected with notes in the margins or at the end of the page for small problems. These get handed to the customer. I always give the customer a Discrepancy list and always write a good logbook inspection label. A normal inspection label for me is typed in #9 size font and most annuals/100 hour inspections are a page long. Just write down what you looked at, what you found and what you did to correct it. keep these list in a 3 ring binder. Really good record keeping can get you an extra $5k-$10 in re-sale value. People with really cruddy records usually take a good hit in money.

If you have a major warranty claim Rotax will want a copy of your logbook.

If your annual logbook entries are 2-3 sentence long for the entire annual it can and has caused some issues about what was done or not done. The logbook label is everything and in a court of law too if ever needed.

Here are two good articles to read from the Rotax website. At least read the first one.

http://www.rotax-owner.com/rotax-blog/item/22-good-documentation-its-everything

http://www.rotax-owner.com/rotax-bl...-cost-you-$10k-and-the-sale-of-your-aircraft?

Roger,

Thank you very much! Great information. I did use the Rotax checklist for the 25 hour inspection, and started a "supplemental" engine log in which I 3-hole punch these checklists (and Service Bulletins) and keep with the engine log. I did 2 more oil changes, then ran the 100 hour inspection concurrent with my condition inspection (but a tad late on engine time).

I really like your idea of inspecting everything at 1 year or 100 hours, whichever comes first. I will follow that in the future. BTW, I flew 163 hours at the end of my 1st year (last month).

I've been working alone in rural upstate New York since the get-go. No local EAA chapter, no FBO. Just one old guy working in an unheated hangar at a rundown airport with no attendance, no support. I've relied heavily on John Peck (a great guy and the closest RV-12 builder), this blog, and many tech support calls to Vans, Dynon and Lockwood.

So thanks again!

JRo

These references point directly to a source of frustration I see with Rotax Owner specifically and Rotax in general.
Neither article is attributed. It could have been written by anyone. I for the life of me can not understand why a person who wrote so much about how to write such a detailed and complete log entry is afraid or ashamed to sign their own name to their own work.
As one reads the articles, they are opinion pieces. There are examples of what the author considered good and bad log entries, but there are no references for the concerns expressed over legal issues, only vague anecdotal statements with no way to find the bais of the author's statement. There are no citations of FAA Chief Counsel opinions, no results of court cases and barely a mention of an FAR.
Rotax Owner may be factory authorized and it may have good videos and be a good repository of SB and similar documentation, but it's commentary does not give one a sense of authority for the point being made.
Where does one get the idea that bad records equal a money hit on resale? Missing logs, yes, may have a dollar hit, but as has been said many times, the basis of a good sale is a good inspection. A person cheating on work done is not going to log it, anyway, or will misrepresent it in a way that will be very difficult to prove if they have any brains. Detailed logs may imply sometihg was done but one has to verify it to be sure. General entries are no indication that a job was not performed as required - agiain an inspection is the final arbiter.
I am not saying don't do good logs. I am saying that what constitutes good logs in not substantiated in the references - they are opinions.

Jim,

It isn't the authors choice or I'm sure most would sign them. It is the way Rotax-Owner admin wants it and publishes it.

Roger,
This Doug in IL. Are you visiting the RV12 forums any more...?

Outstanding Service Course

Just attended Roger's two day Rotax Service Course....it is a "must do"!! You will gain much needed "How to actually perform Annual/100 hr. Inspection" and perform required services.

I thought I had a pretty good understanding of what was necessary....NOT! If you are going to hang your butt over mountain peaks ��, I sure recommend the extra training. Roger is an excellent teacher!

Edit: For clarification, this course was presented via California Power Systems....a Rotax Service Center. You get a "RFSC 9 Series Service certification" (has nothing to do with FAA), but could possibly help with warranty issues; as time is spent on how to properly document your 25 hr, and subsequent annual/100 hr inspections & service work.

I'm glad you found it valuable. It is my understanding, based on discussions with Brian and Carol Carpenter, that the FAA approves the syllabus on these courses and the instructor has to cover that material. Most of us know that some instructors are better than others and additional subject matter can be valuable. Glad it was of value. I've used the Carpenters for 3-4 classes and found them thorough and excellent, if one has the chance to use them.

I think the only FAA involvement is with the Light Sport Repairman 120 hour course.

RFSchaller said:

I think the only FAA involvement is with the Light Sport Repairman 120 hour course.

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You are correct.....this 2 day course was engine specific; not the course required to maintain a S-LSA..

RFSchaller said:

I think the only FAA involvement is with the Light Sport Repairman 120 hour course.

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The FAA has oversight of the 120 hour Repairman - Maintenance , and 16 hour Repairman Inspector classes (because they establish a level of certification that is required by the FAR's).

The FAA has no oversight of Rotax factory sponsored train because it isn't required (but still a very good idea).

You guys are correct - I was confusing the two courses - the FAA 16 hour with the Rotax course. Thanks to all for clarifying my error. I knew better, just had a bad brain day.