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Have you ever caught a problem during preflight?

Have you ever caught a problem during pre-flight?

  • Nope, never found any issues.

    Votes: 20 6.2%
  • Yes, only minor issues

    Votes: 134 41.6%
  • Yes, and once was an issue that could have cause major problems.

    Votes: 89 27.6%
  • Yes, and more than once I have caught major issues.

    Votes: 79 24.5%

  • Total voters
    322

Phlyan Pan

Well Known Member
So I was doing preflight this morning before going up for some spin training (non RV but forgive me) and I got to thinking...I wonder how often people catch problems during preflight. I'm just wondering what the hit rate is...not really trying to push any kind of agenda, just curious.

Just to be clear, I'm only talking about during the walk-around portion...not run up and control checks and stuff.
 
Not an RV, but my preflight on the skyhogs I fly always includes a gentle up-down wiggle of the horizontal stabilizer near the root, on each side of the aircraft. I noticed some "squishiness" when squeezing the rib nearest the fuselage to give it a wiggle, which prompted further investigation. One of the bottom rib-to-skin rivets was smoking and could turn in its hole, so I grounded the aircraft.

Good thing, too, because upon disassembly the A&P found the horizontal stabilizer rib was completely cracked through. To date still not sure how it happened or how long it had been flying that way. Oh, and note the lack of primer on a certified aircraft that's over 30 years old ;)

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1. C152 with a loose horizontal stabilizer
2. Propeller delamination on my RV4
3. B737-300 with bent fan blades
4. B767-300 with a major strut leak in main gear
 
Yes!

Over the years I've found low tires, bird nests, bugs/spider webs in vents/pitots, loose gas caps and (most embarassing) missing access covers following (my) maintenance. Just like the flying part; hundreds of boring inspections punctuated by terrifying discoveries.
 
INSPECTION

I turned up a missing cotter pin once in a very important place. I was told to look for birds nests and it took over thirty years of flying to finally find one but it made all those pre-flights worth while. Collapsed nose strut bottom out but that was an easy one. I test the brakes too before even looking at the check list once inside and have had one of the pedals go to the floor on occasion.
 
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T28--smashed elevator (by forklift)
H46--missing cotter pins in newly installed control arms to rotors
H46--milky transmission fluid in sight hole (analysis showed that someone poured milk into fluid)
H46--hand grenade with pin pulled in empty peanut butter jar under passenger seat
 
NO, But I have 1st hand knowledge of 2 dead stick landings in 2 different airplanes that would never have happened if a proper preflight had been done :eek: Name and details witheld to protect the guilty :eek:
 
Check the oil

Our flying club in college washed the planes every Sat morning. Someone would take it around the pattern to partially dry them and then towel completely. Only problem was the 150 was in for an oil change and in haste to build a few minutes of free flight time a student pilot didn't check the oil or the oil pressure gauge. He made pattern alt downwind without any oil then 'landed' (sank) in a lake and survived but good bye Cessna 150.
 
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Dead Slick

In my Cessna, made it all the way to the run up area at the end of the runway before I checked the ignition. No go.
 
I once found a all-metal lock-nut completely backed off an aileron attach bolt on a friend's RV just before we were going to fly it.
 
I drained 7 litres of water from an AT502's fuel system. I later discovered the ground crew had refueled it without using a filter on the pump and from a fuel source that hadn't been used for 2 years :eek: ... go figure!

I once found a ball peen hammer resting on a firewall ledge. The aircraft (and hammer!) had done a number of hours since maintenance.
 
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Here's a story about the "one that got away"... I was the perpetrator of this nasty deed. Lesson learned. Oh was it learned... This happened 31 years ago and I remember the details like it happened this morning.

Problem Description: dipstick not installed in left engine of B90 King Air

Background: It was my first job in aviation, working as a line boy, and when an airplane showed up at the pumps I had to drop everything and run like heck to get the customer fueled, then return to my previous tasks.

The Scene: It's a busy summer Friday afternoon, lots of people up flying, and lots of folks coming in for fuel. Our King Air was scheduled for an early-morning charter on Saturday. I was asked to do my usual "shine 'er up, top up the fluids and empty the potty" routine. The right engine needed a quart of oil and that was added without incident. The left engine cowling was opened and a check of the dipstick showed it was down a quart, too. I laid the dipstick inside the engine cowling and was about to get another quart of oil when I was interrupted - a C185 was bone dry and in a hurry, so off the the pumps I ran. (error #1 - never leave a dipstick out - dirt can get blown into the filler tube - or worse!)
When I returned to the King Air some time later, after a steady run of aircraft needing fuel, I closed the engine cowling without checking the dipstick. I committed the original sin.

BUT... things got worse... The next morning the captain and first officer just jumped in and lit the fires without even so much as kicking the tires.

The flight crew failed to do a pre-flight. As a result they failed to notice that I hadn't re-installed the dipstick after topping up the fluids. Thankfully no harm was done; a paying passenger noticed oil streaking the cowling once power was pulled back for descent into the destination airport. After securing the engine the aircraft was landed without incident, and then the dipstick was discovered, magically, right where I had left it.

While I suffered a severely bruised ego and ringing ears from a tongue-lashing delivered at high volume levels, it was the flight crew who paid the price for my oversight. Because they had failed to perform the mandatory pre-flight inspection they were found negligent and were suspended without pay for 30 days. This really hurt since the first officer was a friend who had helped me get my foot in the door to get the line boy job.

This incident taught me a lot about the dangers of being interrupted, and of not double-checking one's work. As I went on to make my living in aviation I often would find myself driving back to the hangar to double-check that I had secured a wire bundle or inventoried my tools.

Suffice it to say that casting an eye over our trusty chariots before taking to the skies is a good way of ensuring we'll get back in one piece.
 
Somehow, most of my pre-flight findings have involved a puddle:
>brake fluid from bad o-rings - both under the wheel and in the cockpit.
>blue stain from a couple of evaporated puddles - ironically both were a result of gascolator issues in different Pacers - a failed cork gasket on one and a broken bail wire on the other.
>oil under the cowl from a cracked return line and a vacuum pump that needed tiggtening.
>hydraulic fluid leaking from a failed pump in an Arrow.
>sloshing from the tail/fuselage of a Glasair that had sat out in a couple of Florida showers - must've drained 5 or 6 gallons out of the tail after opening the blocked drain hole - can't imagine what would have happened if a takeoff had been attempted with the CG that far out!
 
After the airworthiness inspection I had a flight with a CFI to get my insurance sign off. We did a verymcareful preflight and found nothing. The next week I did a pre-flight and found both lock nuts on the left elevator backed off to the point that only 2 threads were holding them on. Replaced them with new nuts and checked torque on all other control surfaces and flaps. Flew it 10 hours on the way down from buying it in CA, so notnsure why they both backed off after a 1.1 hr flight.

Glad I am anal about checking control surfaces after having an IFE in a T-33 and finding the outboard hinges broken on both elevators....everyone took a lot more time to pre-flight after that!
 
I was preflighting an RV 6 I bought and sumped the fuel tanks. The tanks had about 1" of muddy crappy filty water in them. The guy used a 55 steel drum that sat outside to store fuel. When I asked him when was the last time he sumped the tanks he said a few years ago, that he was tired of throwing away fuel a tester full at a time. :eek:

I also preflighted a plane inwhich the verticle stabilizer and elevator were loose. The bolts had not been tightened or torqued since it was painted. The bolt heads had undisturbed paint on the heads. The paint job was 10 years old. The plane had gone through at least 5 anuals by 3 different A&PS. . :eek:
 
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Must be something about horizontal stabs....:)

I rejected a rental Janus sailplane due to a loose stab. - 3 to 4 inches of play at the tip.

Also a rental C-150 with a bad magneto.
 
While tuning my injectors, I found the fuel line to the #2 cylinder on hand tight only. The blue fuel streak on the baffles was the clue. I have no idea how I forgot to tighten it down.
 
I flew a rental 172 to a not-to-far distant airport, and on departure, it wouldn't answer a mag check. One bad mag. Since the same FBO operated this airport, I asked for another plane. He wanted me to fly that one back (the maintenance shop was at the original A/P) but I refused. That plane dead-sticked into a closed airport between the two later in the day...

I have found a few things, most not serious, on our 9A. A bird's nest was the only serious thing.

Bob
 
I was going to go up in a C172 when i noticed that the right aleron hinge pins was not secure. And it had been flying for 2 months.
 
what is a preflight?

....not meaning to hijack the thread, just asking a question;

if your aircraft has been sitting out in the open at the airfield for a couple months, do you do the same preflight as you would if you flew it yesterday, and it's been in your locked heated hangar, and you have the only key.
Of course not.
but ....why not?
 
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Took a plane from a place where we have maintenance performed and noticed the horizontal stab was halfway between the up and down position (it only has two positions). Well the H-stab on this plane moves on hydraulic power, and as it turned out, the hydraulic reservoir was completely empty. Would have made for an interesting passenger leg.

This, and others, are in addition to the many times I have found something lacking in an engine runup, electrical systems check, etc, not including little stuff like burned out lights or tires showing threads.
 
We all agree that the worst aircraft are the ones used by multiple pilots. Those are the ones needed a good throughout Pre flight without taking anything for granted...I have found all kinds of things in rental units. Leaking struts, buckled firewals, broken belts, birds nest, crack LG doors, hangar rash, etc etc etc......
 
Thirty years ago I was the most junior birdman at a large Piper dealer/distributor. The boss wanted all the inventory flown 1/2 hour each month, and in the middle of a south Alabama summer I didn't need to fight anybody for the free flight time. I would do all the singles and one of the distributor demo pilots would do the twins. Lots of preflight inspections, lots of hot airplanes. When I got mine done I'd go help with the twins, which took more time. More engines, more avionics, more things to check, preflight and inflight. And I needed the experience.

One hot evening I walked up to a Seminole just as the demo guy was climbing aboard. I jumped in, strapped in, and asked him how the preflight went. He said fine, no squawks, and showed me the pitot cover. So off we go. A mile or two south of the airport the engine on my side gave a ladylike cough, then quit stone dead just like it ran out of fuel.....yeah, exactly like it ran out of fuel. I leaned over to study the fuel quantity gauges, and sure enough, the right one pointed at "empty."

He never did a preflight, or at least he never bothered to look in the tanks. He was too hot, too tired, and it was his last airplane of the day. The right quick drain had a slow drippy leak, and in a month's time all the fuel had disappeared.....all but the few gallons which got us to 1500 feet.

Good lesson for a junior birdman. Should we go flying together, please don't be insulted if I preflight your airplane, even if you just did. I'm not picking at it. I just figure everyone is human, even senior aviators.
 
Stabilator

Was preflighting my Cherokee which always included moving the stabilator through it's range of motion by hand. It didn't seem like the amount of up stabilator travel was enough. I looked down into the tail and couldn't see anything out of order, then looked under the instrument panel at the control column and saw that the large vacuum hose had been displaced by the mechanic who had just installed a blind altitude encoder and had not been secured back into its original position. The displaced hose was preventing the yoke from coming full aft by about 6 inches.

I almost dismissed the apparent lack of stabilator travel as nothing - the lesson learned is that when something doesn't feel right on your airplane, there's probably a good reason...
 
I had taken a couple of friends up to Jackson Hole for skiing in a Rental 182, the trip up was uneventful. On preflight for the way back I put the flaps down to 10 degrees and the right flap came all the way down, the push rod had snapped!!! :eek:
 
These are all great stories about mishaps avoided (or sometimes not avoided). They're a great reminder to never take anything for granted when playing with gravity. I originally intended it only as a curiosity but maybe it should be moved to the safety forum?

{I was thinking the same thing...done! Ironflight}
 
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These are all great stories about mishaps avoided (or sometimes not avoided). They're a great reminder to never take anything for granted when playing with gravity. I originally intended it only as a curiosity but maybe it should be moved to the safety forum?

{I was thinking the same thing...done! Ironflight}

...and notice how many of the incidents mentioned were the first flight after a mechanic had done work on the plane...:rolleyes:
 
Not exactly preflight.... A couple months ago I came back from doing a bunch of TnGs and pushed the airplane into the hangar. A friend of mine noticed that the nut on the tailwheel axle bolt was missing! No idea how many landings I had done without the nut. I'm very glad I didn't end up using a tail skid rather than the little wheel!

greg
 
Inspection cover on a C150 flap (on the upper surface near the leading edge) only attached with one screw of 3 and rotated open. Just after the annual and after someone at the FBO had flown it to return it to service. Impressed my instructor by finding that one!
 
I've caught several things.

On a visit to Texas once upon a time, we went by the airport to fuel the airplane for a next day departure, only to find birds going in and out of the cowling intakes. In a 1 day stay, they had built quite the nest and were still adding on.

Another time, back when I owned a Tomahawk, I was doing a preflight a couple of days after the remnants of a tropical storm had passed through and noticed a slow drip of water from the empennage. On further inspection, the drain hole on the bottom rudder fairing was plugged and there was about 2 gallons of water inside.

I'm sure I've found other things as well...
 
Yep, rentals

Broken door hinges (both half broken, same door) C172 rental, ~1800TTSN

Broken elevator bellcrank on a Flight Design CT rental, ~500TTSN. This one the school owner told me I could fly, 'it was just dirt streaks'. So I grabbed it and broke it off in front of him. I could not believe he was willing to take that kind of risk. Mind you, by this time this same aircraft had had 2 off airport landings, and was lost to engine failure (Rotax) and poor choices less than a year later.

That's with 92hrs total time in my logbook. And one of the reasons I'm building my own.

Rick 90432
 
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I noticed that one of the trim tabs on my RV-10 had more play than the other one, and upon further inspection I discovered the broken weld on part number WD-415 (the trim cable anchor). I think that led to the service bulletin and the new WD 415-1.

Vic
 
....not meaning to hijack the thread, just asking a question;

if your aircraft has been sitting out in the open at the airfield for a couple months, do you do the same preflight as you would if you flew it yesterday, and it's been in your locked heated hangar, and you have the only key.
Of course not.
but ....why not?

I am guilty of not doing the same preflight, in that situation, more than I should be. However, flying corporate for 35 years I got in the habit of doing a thorough Post-Flight inspection. RON's at small airports were common, and it was not fun to show up the next morning for an early AM departure and discover a squawk, that had been patiently waiting to be discovered an hour before the pax showed up.:eek: That habit paid off more than once.

Lot's of good responses to this thread.

 
Over 30 years of flying, I've forgotten most of them. My favorite I remember was water dripping from a Metroliner fuselage at the airline- the mechanics pulled up the floor to discover about 3-4" of water in the bottom. I have always wondered what it would have felt like at rotation when several hundred pounds suddenly moved to the most aft cg station.
 
birds collecting nesting material in southern indiana. stayed overnight...engine compartment was stuffed...took 45 minutes to get it all out. went in FBO to use the restroom and came out to find it half full again....dang. haven't been back to indiana since...lol
 
Here's another one non-post-maintenance related. We parked the aircraft somewhere in New York and got our pax on their way just before a particularly nasty rain storm hit. About an hour or so later we were given word to reposition the aircraft to another airport, so I get out to the plane (umbrella no longer needed) and started pulling charts in the cockpit.....when I notice that my arm rest is awfully damp. As in wet. Normally not a huge deal, but in this airplane the arm rest sits right below a big circuit breaker panel.....which sits right below a window. Mind you, the window was completely closed, however the rain was so bad that water found its way into the cockpit and went through the circuit breaker panel (on the outside for sure and most likely on the inside as well). Needless to say we didn't dare turn the master switch on and were done for the day until a mechanic could have a look at the panel.

This didn't happen to me but I was there to see the result - a Challenger crew had parked their aircraft at some airport in California for what must have been at least several days and did not have engine covers installed. As I show up to the airport I see the crew and their passengers sitting inside the FBO, staring out at the plane in a combination of amusement, frustration, and primal fear. Attached to the inside of the left engine nacelle was a gigantic, and I mean visible from a hundred yards away, hornet's nest, with the associated insects swarming all over the engine area. I'm not sure if the exterminator that showed up used the FAA-approved hornet nest removal, but he did get the job done.
 
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I almost dismissed the apparent lack of stabilator travel as nothing - the lesson learned is that when something doesn't feel right on your airplane, there's probably a good reason...

That is great advice, I have heard many stories over the years where a problem developed after the plane had given a warning of some sort that was ignored. Much as i want to go flying sometimes, if something doesn't seem right, I investigate. Having done it both ways, it is much easier to deal with problems found on the ground than in the air.
 
As a student

I was the second flight of the day in a schweizer 233, a strut braced high wing glider, and as the instructor was talking with the first ride, I preflighted and found that the nut holding the outboard strut bolt was gone, and the bolt could be rotated by hand. After smirking over to the instructor to show him I'd found his "test" item, he went to double check that I was not lying. No one had noticed and the airplane was airborn for an hour or more.

KB
 
...and notice how many of the incidents mentioned were the first flight after a mechanic had done work on the plane...:rolleyes:

Here's another one of those tales:eek:.

One of our company pilots picked up an AT802 from the shop after it had had major maintenance. He completed the usual "modified" preflight which consisted of a quick look around,check the fuel and oil and jump in.
Shortly after lift off he reduced power abruptly and was seen to complete a very low level circuit and landing. He got out shaking at the nee's and in need of a caffeine hit or something much stronger.
The mechanics had changed the elevator trim cable and wound the new one around the actuator drum the wrong way making the trim tab work in the wrong sense.
The application of trim after lift off made flight loads on the stick increase alarmingly rather than decrease to which he had no answer for other than to reduce power and land as soon as he could. He had no idea that the trim cable had just been changed.
He and all of us learnt a very valuable lesson that day...
 
Aaaah...the "Waddington effect!"

Guys, just Google Waddington. Many issues arise after maintenance, that weren't issues BEFORE maintenance!

I've had a Cessna 310 lose the right engine as the gear came up on the "post annual" acceptance flight. The fuel supply line came off the spider and sprayed avgas all over the engine...never was torqued! It was just fine before annual!

My -10 sputtered and backfired during the runup/mag check, after condition inspection...yep, spark plug wires crossed...it was fine before that!

That's why you should never have a passenger aboard on the first flight after maintenance!

Best,
 
Loose Exhaust

I found loose tail pipes on my RV-6 once. Traced it to missing vertical hanger to oil pan flange attach bolts. Replaced with new bolts and star washers. Now I always the check security of tail pipes on walk around.

Once during an annual on a club aircraf the A/P found a bucking bar and coffee can in the tail cone. Goodness knows how long they had been there. He was also a CFI and suggested that during preflight we grab a wing tip, gently shake the plane and listen for unusual rattles in unexpected places.
 
I was the second flight of the day in a schweizer 233, a strut braced high wing glider, and as the instructor was talking with the first ride, I preflighted and found that the nut holding the outboard strut bolt was gone, and the bolt could be rotated by hand. After smirking over to the instructor to show him I'd found his "test" item, he went to double check that I was not lying. No one had noticed and the airplane was airborn for an hour or more.

I preflighted a Pik-20D glider and found that the mainpin was only inserted about half way. Wouldn't go any further into its bushing. The mainpin is supposed to go all the way through the spar extensions of both wings to prevent them from coming apart, but because it'd only engaged with one wing the result was functionally equivalent to having no mainpin at all.

I disassembled the glider and found that a 1 inch long piece of garden hose used to protect the brass bushing in the starboard wing from scoring from steel pins in the trailer hadn't been removed last time it was rigged.

On the previous day the aircraft had flown a 200km cross country. When I revealed my discovery to the previous pilot he went white as a sheet, considering the implications of the fact that nothing was preventing the wings from coming off. To this day I have no idea why it didn't kill him in a launch accident. I can only guess that flight loads caused the wings to bind up on their mountings on the fuselage. Might have been amusing if they'd fallen off as soon as he stopped rolling after landing :D

- mark
 
One of the elements on my cat-whisker VOR antenna, mounted on the top of the vertical fin was loose. RV-6A. Took about 30 min to get stuff disassembled so that it could be tightened and all put back together.
 
My other form of flying (besides my RV) is flying paragliders (unpowered - other than thermals). They typically look kinda like this:

%25255BUNSET%25255D.jpg


I few months ago I was talking with a fellow pilot that had just landed and I noticed his left carabiner had cracked and was bent nearly completely open. This carabiner is required to hold the pilot to the wing and he had been flying for an hour without noticing this problem.

I pointed at this carabiner. He looked down at it. Silence for a long time. Then he bends over and vomits.

He was very lucky.
 
Went to the aeroplane and removed the covers, thought I spotted a stone chip on the prop........

DSC02182.JPG


A week previously, the communal hangar was full to the brim with visiting aerobatic aeroplanes for a contest.........:mad:

Prop is back at MT for a $2000 repair and of course, no one did it :rolleyes:

Oh, by the way, the marks from abrasives were done by the perpetrator, not us - the other blades are pristine and the prop has done 50 hours from new.

My partner had flown the aeroplane the day before and it had gone unnoticed when he flew, probably because blade was down etc etc, we all miss things sometimes. I think that is where the leading edge crack came from. We will find out more when MT report next week hopefully.
 
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Another post maintenance issue.

I found an 8 to 10 inch gash/hole in the bottom wing skin of my Bonanza (pre-RV aircraft). The FBO had been doing work on the plane and someone pulled the plane across one of their stands used to hole ropes for aircraft work areas. No one owned up to it! The yellow paint stains were enough evidence for the FBO. They replaced the skin at NC and never found the culprit.:( I'm not sure what the plane would have done during flight. Glad the preflight caught it. Maybe the guy who did the deed should have to fly it.

As that guy from Nebraska states: "Let's be careful out there."

David
 
birds seem to be a common theme....

The vertical fin of my -9a seems to be a favourite perch for something; the cr@p runs down the fin, and often large 'plops' are right on the elevator to stabilizer junction.
My normal walkaround includes wiping up the poop, and full movement of all the surfaces by hand.
THis time, the elevator stayed FULL UP! ....there was enough hardened junk in the out-of-sight space between the elevator LE and the stab....to jam it. Lots of water softened it enough to work a rag in and 10 minutes of flushing cleaned it out...mostly.
New builders out there would be wise to ensure there is a good 1/8" clearance to allow dirt 'n 'stuff' to work it's way thru the gap.
 
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