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I guess I found my ADSB! UAvionix Tail Light

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Xkuzme1

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I was disappointed that I wouldn?t be able to use the UAvionix Red position light. My position light is inside my LE wingtip, so that was out. I was reading this morning on the Facebook and I saw a post from Flying Magazine showing that UAvionix has made a tail light adsb. The UAvionix website actually says that they won?t be developing a tail light, just red and green.

So here it is. It is a little more expensive for some reason, but I like the ease of installation. I also like the discrete mode.

https://www.flyingmag.com/uavionix-introduces-new-low-cost-ads-b-products
 
development

I have noticed something about uAvionix. It reminds me of Chelton Flight Systems. When I was their chief pilot, the pace of development was astounding. They were breaking ground so fast it was hard to keep up. As a CFI I taught people to fly synthetic vision from Alaska to South Africa, with a lot of stops in between. Communication to the consumers lagged behind at times. uAvionix shared a booth with me last week at the Aircraft Electronics Assoc. convention. Shane proved to be just about the smartest guy in the room. He was showing avionics techs the tail light that is under certification development. We had to shade the device lest it blind the viewers. It is evolving from an ADS-B device only, to a bright position light as well. I suspect by Oshkosh, most pilots in the U.S. will be much more familiar with their products and be able to purchase not only for experimental but also two and four seat planes under a certain weight class. This is a positive since I feel complicit in promoting Navworx in the early days. I saw red flag warnings there early on, but we did not react quickly enough.
It will be interesting to see what other unique solutions come forth from uAvionix down the road. (and feel free to call them micro avionix if you wish) Cheers
 
I like the ease of installation, but not the fact that the airplane will block most of the signal to the front... The area where you'd think you want your visibility to be the strongest?
 
I like the ease of installation, but not the fact that the airplane will block most of the signal to the front... The area where you'd think you want your visibility to be the strongest?

Question: If the aircraft are communicating with the ADS-B ground station(s) wouldn?t the visibility be OK, no matter the relative angles of the ADS-B in/out antennas on each individual aircraft?

Isn?t it the case currently that the non ADS-B out aircraft only show up on our displays because the ground stations provide that data?

Carl
..
 
It doesn't appear to be a tail strobe, but a tail light. If this is the case, you're still going to have to find a way to deal with either A) adding a tail strobe if you're using wingtip strobes, or B) adding a flashing beacon to the tail tip or roof top of your plane. Unless I'm mistaken and it actually is a strobe... Most RV's I've ever seen have wingtip strobes and Nav's, and a combination tail strobe/light.
 
Question: If the aircraft are communicating with the ADS-B ground station(s) wouldn?t the visibility be OK, no matter the relative angles of the ADS-B in/out antennas on each individual aircraft?

Isn?t it the case currently that the non ADS-B out aircraft only show up on our displays because the ground stations provide that data?

Carl
..

That?s not the way it works. Your ADSB-out signal tells the ground station what frequencies you?re listening on. The ground station will not send up traffic that it thinks you should be receiving directly.
 
That?s not the way it works. Your ADSB-out signal tells the ground station what frequencies you?re listening on. The ground station will not send up traffic that it thinks you should be receiving directly.

My ADSB-out antenna (blade shared with xponder) is on the belly. My ADSB-in antennas/receivers are a Scout and GDL39 in the cabin, windshield area.

I won?t see someone directly below me? Especially if the lower plane also has an ADSB-out belly antenna? :eek:

Carl
..
 
My ADSB-out antenna (blade shared with xponder) is on the belly. My ADSB-in antennas/receivers are a Scout and GDL39 in the cabin, windshield area.

I won?t see someone directly below me? Especially if the lower plane also has an ADSB-out belly antenna? :eek:

Carl
..

Line-of-sight radio transmission being blocked by "stuff" in the way is only applicable at fairly appreciable distances. Anything close enough to you to worry about, but directly above or below, is going to be sending a powerful enough signal to be seen on the other side of your aircraft regardless.
 
UAVIONICS wingtip and tail WAAS GPS receivers and Nav position lights are 978 UAT transmitters, right?

They only transmit via UAT on 978 MHz to ground stations, not other aircraft, right?

If you want to see or be seen air to air via transponder you either need the other guy to have a 1090ES transponder and you to have a 1090 ADSB-IN solution to see him and you to have the same to see you, air to air.

Otherwise you need full up TCAS or you are depending on FAA retransmissions from the ground.

I'll likely put this newest Uavionix offering on our 6.

Pun intended...
 
Reference?

That?s not the way it works. Your ADSB-out signal tells the ground station what frequencies you?re listening on. The ground station will not send up traffic that it thinks you should be receiving directly.

Do you have a reference for that statement?

Thanks
 
UAVIONICS wingtip and tail WAAS GPS receivers and Nav position lights are 978 UAT transmitters, right?

They only transmit via UAT on 978 MHz to ground stations, not other aircraft, right?

If you want to see or be seen air to air via transponder you either need the other guy to have a 1090ES transponder and you to have a 1090 ADSB-IN solution to see him and you to have the same to see you, air to air.

Otherwise you need full up TCAS or you are depending on FAA retransmissions from the ground.

I'll likely put this newest Uavionix offering on our 6.

Pun intended...

The 978 transmission is intended to be received by ground stations AND other aircraft who are listening on 978. The ground stations are supposed to send your position up to participating aircraft who are listening only on 1090.
 
The 978 transmission is intended to be received by ground stations AND other aircraft who are listening on 978. The ground stations are supposed to send your position up to participating aircraft who are listening only on 1090.


Thank you. I surfed around after seeing your reply and now agree and feel even better about using this 978 Out solution. Would like to see a few good PAPRs and no bad ones!
 
Line-of-sight radio transmission being blocked by "stuff" in the way is only applicable at fairly appreciable distances. Anything close enough to you to worry about, but directly above or below, is going to be sending a powerful enough signal to be seen on the other side of your aircraft regardless.
That is good to know, but still I think it supports my concern... I want other aircraft to know i'm coming as far in advance as possible. If I have a weaker signal cone pointing along my direction of travel, that reduces the range at which I should be detectable. If i'm flying towards an ADS-B tower, or straight at another airplane that I haven't seen yet, we'll be closer before we get alerts.

Still, it depends on the definition of "fairly appreciable distances". If they're above or below, I don't care because i'm not going to hit them. If they're off to one side, my signal should be good and there should be reduced probability of intersecting flight tracks. It's the head-on (or near head-on) traffic that we encounter more as we devolve to following the magenta lines that worries me.
 
That is good to know, but still I think it supports my concern... I want other aircraft to know i'm coming as far in advance as possible. If I have a weaker signal cone pointing along my direction of travel, that reduces the range at which I should be detectable. If i'm flying towards an ADS-B tower, or straight at another airplane that I haven't seen yet, we'll be closer before we get alerts.

Certainly true. I wouldn't think it would be attenuated enough to be a concern within the range of collision-avoidance distances, but only testing would tell us for sure. Each airframe will have more or less sensitivity to that.
 
misundertood?

I am not sure if I am reading the comments about being seen in front correctly or not???? In my observation over some years now.... LED position lights don't really do much in the daylight. I have pretty bright lights, but only the landing lights are focused enough to do much in daytime. Blinking helps as well as wig wag. As far as ADS-B is concerned, there is no difference where it is mounted. It is a data link. Your ship position is reported via data bursts. Most of my flights, I notice I am hitting four or five towers at varying distances. My position is being reported and all the traffic around me is able to determine on their own datalink receiver, where I am. We have an inordinate number of planes in my area that are equipped since it is home to ERAU. They have been using ADS-B for years. They report back to center and tower where they see traffic on their screens. My position is always accurate as reported by the instructors on board. So, for the poster worried about an antenna at the rear... I would not worry too much about it.
 
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Anyone know if this light is the same size as the standard tail light on the RV6? Looks bigger for some reason.

These guys and others are updating products so fast it makes me happy I DIDNT buy a ADSB solution yet each time something new comes out.
 
These guys and others are updating products so fast it makes me happy I DIDNT buy a ADSB solution yet each time something new comes out.
That's true with everything electronic in the aircraft... I still think the biggest reason I haven't upgraded my panel yet is that every time I start to get motivated to make some changes, the "next big thing" is just around the corner and I hold off instead... :) Each iteration of the technology just keeps getting better and (relatively) cheaper.
 
That's true with everything electronic in the aircraft... I still think the biggest reason I haven't upgraded my panel yet is that every time I start to get motivated to make some changes, the "next big thing" is just around the corner and I hold off instead... :) Each iteration of the technology just keeps getting better and (relatively) cheaper.

That?s why I?m stil on steam gauges myself.
 
Assuming that this ADSB tail light is based on wifi for transponder input, I wonder why so many are having to change from wifi to hard wiring the ECHO to the transponder and encoder for proper results??
 
Assuming that this ADSB tail light is based on wifi for transponder input, I wonder why so many are having to change from wifi to hard wiring the ECHO to the transponder and encoder for proper results??

I think ?wifi? is the wrong word. The ECHO can listen to the transponder broadcast after it has been ?pinged? by ATC radar. One problem happens at low altitude, or remote locations - if there?s no ATC radar to interogate it, there?s no transponder transmission. Then the Echo doesn?t know the pressure altitude. Another potential issue is getting the sensitivity set right. If the antennas are close, the signal can be large.
 
What Bob mentioned about not getting Baro unless the transponder is ping'd....

I have that same problem with the Echo, and it actually causes a Maintenance flag to pop up which after a certain amount of time can cause an alarm flag on my EFIS to pop up. So if you aren't providing regular baro info to the UAT, it isn't going to be ideal at all. I'm actually shocked that any of the systems can use the transponder sniffer mode. You'd think the FAA would want to mandate that the systems directly get proper baro alt, since they are so picky about the quality of the GPS that they are integrated with.
 
I'm actually shocked that any of the systems can use the transponder sniffer mode.

I suppose they could make the device wait a particular amount of time after receiving the last valid transponder "sniff", and then issue a very low-power ping that would be picked up by the transponder and trigger it's own return, delivering the needed baro check - but that's crossing into "spoofing" territory for the ground ATC radar system and would probably be frowned upon too.

Best just to hardwire it...
 
I'm actually shocked that any of the systems can use the transponder sniffer mode. You'd think the FAA would want to mandate that the systems directly get proper baro alt, since they are so picky about the quality of the GPS that they are integrated with.

Me too. In fact when the NavWorx box with transmon pick up came out, I sent them an email asking just that question. The reply I got (not from Bill) was that the FAA had okayed substituting gps altitude if pressure altitude wasn?t available, as long as some flag was set to indicate what was going on (??). That sounded odd to me, but since I had no intention of buying a product that didn?t actually exist at that time, I dropped the subject.
 
So I am a beta tester for the tailbeacon. It works great. I have had no issues with it not working, once I was installed. The hardware install could not have been easier. I cut two wires. Crimped on the two new wires. It mounted in the existing hole. I did have a few hiccups with the software connection with my iPhone, but an android fired right up (that?s part of the beta testing).

I use the tailbeacon for my adsb out.

I use a stratux for my adsb in. My stratux is connected via hardware to my GRT efis. My GRT efis allows me to put in my N number to squash spurious warnings.

I am very happy with this set up. The only thing I hope is that the non-beta versions have an option for the tailbeacon to also strobe/flash. There is an option in the app, but not on the hardware.

Installation was easy. Adsb in is cheap and easy. Best/easiest adsb you are gonna get.

X
 
I placed an order on Sunday for the Tail Beacon. I have received an email that my order has been processed and my card has been billed. Hope to have it sometime next week. Will let you know how is goes with install and test flight. I will probably have to contact the manufacturer for this, but I was contemplating running a separate hot wire that comes alive with the master switch since I fly 99% in the daytime and usually don't turn on my nav lights. Strobes are always on. Going to run it by my avionics guy too, but does anyone think this could cause a problem?
 
I have looked at both the wing and tail models of the uAvionix and have wondered about the potential for theft. Granted they are registered with the manufacturer and once installed the FAA so they are probably of little value to anyone but the valid owner. But but other than faith in the goodness of others, what prevents these expensive units and seemingly valuable devices from being removed in a few seconds for sale on eBay or Craig’s list to the unwitting buyer. Security screws or fixtures, lanyard to structure?

-larosta
 
I have looked at both the wing and tail models of the uAvionix and have wondered about the potential for theft. Granted they are registered with the manufacturer and once installed the FAA so they are probably of little value to anyone but the valid owner. But but other than faith in the goodness of others, what prevents these expensive units and seemingly valuable devices from being removed in a few seconds for sale on eBay or Craig?s list to the unwitting buyer. Security screws or fixtures, lanyard to structure?

-larosta

Technical and FAA procedural question, if the uAvionix is reprogrammed with a new N-number and S-code would the FAA receivers know/track/report as stolen the original unit?

I?d be interested in how often GA/Experimental equipment thefts occur these days. Since reading items about pried open - locked canopy damage (damage and downtime worry me) there is a good argument to not lock up, just cover up stuff.

Are there experimental airplane-savvy thieves and stolen merchandise customers out there??? The bad bad guys are smashing vehicles into storefronts to steal ATMs, drugs, and guns...

Maybe a separate thread....

Carl
..
 
I know a guy who owns an allen wrench. That means if he was inclined to, he could have a trunk full of avionics worth more than his house in just minutes. I don't lay awake worrying about him. Now, hail storms..... those worry me.
 
This is the reason I don't have a lockable canopy on my plane. If someone wants my avionics they will find a way to take them - either opening the canopy or breaking it. Either way my insurance company will buy me new avionics quickly - so it's my choice whether or not I want to rebuild the canopy.

You can't worry about everything in life, it will just kill you sooner. Buy insurance and fly the plane, the rest will sort itself out.
 
I am still contemplating options on ADSB in. The tailbeacon looks like an option but the panel mounted Transponders have come down in price and I am still wondering about side by side comparisons.

Pros and cons of each.

Keep the reviews coming gang.

At present I have a bendix king KT76C
 
Do you have an EFIS? If yes, does it support "IN"? Your "In" may be best displayed there, if possible.

Most any compatible ADSB in device with both 1090mhz and 978mhz reception for $200 to $1000 will work.

Having had a Dual 170 GPS with only 978 input and no ADSB out, it was only "good"for weather.

The KT-76C is now disposable. Mine died that came with my plane, vacuum cavity with a pretty digital face. A replacement still needs a check if you install another one. $200 for the "new" one, likely a KT-76A and $200 ish for the check.

No EFIS, the new adsb out transponders look better if they display the "IN" traffic and weather as well as wifi/bluetooth to any other portable display device.

My current "in" is an ebay $160 used Skyradar DX 1090/978- it feeds my GRT EFIS via USB hub and portable devices via wifi.

My "out" will likely be a Skybeacon, my transponder is also a KT76A, same tray as your C, was $400 a few years ago, cheaper now. If it died today, I would go post your same topic with the price gap closure options so changed, myself.

The big technical decision is do you want to be seen directly on other planes' 1090mhz aircraft to aircraft streams? A UAT ADSB-out on 978 mhz like the Skybeacon must hit an ADSB ground station antenna to be processed and retransmitted, then you can be seen by other aircraft's ADSB in on either 978 or 1090mhz devices, as I understand it.

Any consideration for rudder flutter from the tailbeacon addition on the small rudders? 70 grams/2.5 ounces.

The skybeacon calls out 6/32 screws, my Grimes are currently on 8/32 nutplates. The tailbeacon calls out #4 flathead screws, mine are I think #6s, so I'm doubting a 10 minute install either way.
 
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49clipper

I like the uavionis tail light, but i intend to travel to ALaska in the future and I read you must have 1090mhz in canada. True? 978mhz is only for the US market.
 
No EFIS. The KT76C was recently serviced (not cheap) but as mentioned it might be better to just go with ADSB-in/out now unless the tail light drops in price.

I have a $100 Stratux to an iPad for in but will need out within the next 15 months.
 
Doe this actually got where the small tail
Light is on my vans maybe 1 1/4 inch or so or does it replace a strobe like on the cessnas I fly. Haven?t been able to find dimensions anywhere and since all vans are a little different don?t know what you guys have for lights. Mine uses a 1156 automotive bulb.
 
You might want to hold off on the Skybeacon and Tailbeacon until the Garmin in lawsuit against uAvionix is resolved.

https://insight.rpxcorp.com/litigation_documents/12956844

I don’t think discussions of the legalities are allowed on this forum, but it is relevant to know that a lawsuit affects these devices, lest anyone end up with an ”illegal” unit, a la Navworx.
 
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Personally, I think Garmin is whistling in dark, their 82 etc, has to be hard wired
Into transponder cable, uavionix is wire less to transponder ! Tom
 
Locking down the thread

Gang,
DR locked a similar thread about this lawsuit because he can?t accommodate uninformed discussions regarding ongoing litigation on VAF, his bread-and-butter website. I don?t blame him. Let?s let this thread rest until the dust settles.
 
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