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HELP!!!

Av8torTom

Well Known Member
I'm at Superior Air Parts building my O-320. My original intention was to go with one mag and one E-mag (with built in alternator). When I arrived this morning they kinda looked at me funny. This is probably a hot debate, but I need input NOW, before tomorrow (3/20) on the following:

1. Two standard mags
2. One standard mag, one E-mag
3. Two E-mags
4. Do you use automotive spark plugs and ignition wires on the E-mag?

If you can give the reasons for your choice I would appreciate it.

Thanks all in advance!
 
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my choice

I put two PMAGs on my RV7a 11 years and 1670 hours ago and have not regretted that decision.
 
Emags have been superceded by Pmags (self-powered version of Emag). I have two Pmags (no traditional mags) and would do it again. The only potential problem would be that both fail at the same time presumably caused by the same thing. They are independent of each other so I don't know how likely double failure would be. Just like traditional mags, make sure both are working properly before each takeoff.

160+ hours now.

Bevan
 
I have 2xP-Mags, 14mm BR8-EIS(X?) plugs all round, automotive plug wire, and no regrets. With the Rotec TBI and its' primer system it usually starts on the 3rd blade, no matter how cold it is. If it's hot, it usually doesn't make it past the first blade before firing.

However, if it was a choice of standard mags, 1 x standard & 1 x PMag, or 2 x PMags, definitely go with 2 x PMags.

Were I building a new engine today, I would likely go with SDS' EFI system. The ability to trim fuel to an individual cylinder, and single-switch leaning are temptations hard to beat.
 
I recently acquired an airplane with one tractor mag and one electronic mag. I was so impressed with the electronic mags performance I called the manufacturer to inquire about replacing the tractor mag with a second electronic mag. He talked me out of it! He said just the one electronic mag provides nearly all the benefit I could expect and that I would be disappointed by the lack of improvement from a second electronic mag. He also noted the improved redundancy of having a completely separate, self contained traditional mag.

I figured if was willing to lose a sale like that he must really sincere in his beliefs and who was I to argue. But he has me as a customer for life and any subsequent airplanes I get without an electronic mag will be getting one of his systems.

George
 
Go with 2 P mags mine only have 350 hours on them but no issues at all. I just replace the NGK spark plugs at annual and don't even bother cleaning. Just pay attention to the torque and gap setting as instructed
 
If you go with Pmags now you will never have to fret about doing the change later;)

When you install on your place be sure to run all the wires to the cockpit to either run the EIcomander or the EICAD program via laptop. For first fligt it might make sense to program them to function as standard mags (set max advance at 25 degrees BTDC) and after break-in toy with advancing. (Sounds more complicated than it is.

Personally I would go either both mags (dual impulse coupled) or both Pmags. Too much headache to manage both. I did not notice much difference on my aersport O-320 when I upgraded to just one Pmag.

I have another piece of advice for you though. If you are aersport, building your own O-320, ask them to install the tapered insert in the bottom of the sump to transition the carb throat diameter to the sump hole diameter. This probably has more benefit than the Pmags!.
 
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Have Brad send you the plug harness for auto plugs without the plug ends installed so you can cut the cables to the correct length and install the ends. If you get the harness with both ends already installed then it is much harder to work out the wire routing.
 
FWIW: I installed 2 P-Mags back in 2013 with NGK car spark plugs and wiring on my Lycoming O360-A4M engine. With more than 300hrs on them I would do it all over again.

:cool:
 
Two P-mags and NGK BR8ES plugs. You are going to want to replace them every 100 - 130 hours so don't waste your money on more expensive ones.

Add an EICommander to your panettone monitor and manage them. (I'm just a little biased.)

Check your PM's and give me a call and I'll talk you through the P-mags and their setup.
 
Perhaps a slightly jaded and biased opinion... I had two brand new Slicks on my brand new Lycoming certified engine. That engine sat pickled for a number of years while the rest of the airplane was built. Before running the engine I opted to do two things; pull the left (impulse) mag and send it out for a checkup, and remove the right mag and install a P-Mag.

I purchased a P-Mag used and ensured the vendor sent it back to EMagAir for their flat-rate checkup and firmware update (V.40) as part of the purchase conditions. Great.

I paid a certified overhaul shop nearly CAD$400 to have the brand new Slick mag brought up to date with Service Bulletins etc to replace parts that were known to fail prematurely. That's a brand new mag that's never fired a spark plug even once.

Several hours into our 25 hour initial test phase it became clear the P-Mag was not firing two of the four spark plugs, first intermittently, then it turned into a hard failure. Brad at EMagAir was very patient in working with me to diagnose the problem. Ultimately we confirmed the circuit board in the P-Mag had failed. CAD$600 later I had replaced the circuit board and all was well.

My take-away? There ain't no such thing as a perfect, failure free ignition system. I enjoy the benefits of both the Slick and the P-Mag. Having seen both of these ignition systems exhibit premature modes of failure (thankfully only one of them occurring in flight) I'm happy to have two disparate ignition systems.

Now for the kicker... For the first engine run I realized the engine was running on only one ignition system, the P-Mag. Turns out I had mis-timed the Slick (still don't know how that happened as I believe I used exactly the same process to get it timed correctly). The advantage in ease of timing the P-Mag is very clear.

The combination of both electronic and magneto ignition is, so far, providing reasonable economy of operation, easy starts and a smooth low-speed idle. So far I'm happy with this choice, despite the initial teething problems.
 
1. Two standard mags- Bought a flying RV-6 with one each
2. One standard mag, one E-mag
3. Two E-mags Not sure I will do this-have had an issue
4. Do you use automotive spark plugs and ignition wires on the E-mag? Yes, just bought a complet set from Electroair to replace the ones that came with the RV. After talking with Denny at Electroair, decided to replace the Accel auto set with factory ones. Spark plugs cost me $11 for 5 of them, instead of the cost per each for aircraft style.

If you can give the reasons for your choice I would appreciate it.

Thanks all in advance!
This is my first experience with an emag. Last summer when flying from Parker, AZ to Minden, NV the sensor went bad. Fuel burn went way up, landed at Minden, tried an emag check and the engine quit.

Was glad to have a Slick mag for backup. Sensor cost $75 and the AP/IA that replaced it had never worked with one before. A quick call to Electroair and the sensor was on the way. Once it arrived it was replaced in about 15-minutes, while on the phone talking with the tech rep the whole time.

My thoughts are the emag is worth keeping, learning about it everyday, a little different for most AP/IA to deal with it. Just did an annual condition inspection. Had to replace one of the plug leads (old one had a broken plug clip). Thought I could just grab any 8mm Accel brand like the ones already on my 0320. First run-up and dropped 125 RPM, called Electroair and decided to purchase a complete new set of leads. Just got here today, will know tomorrow if they fix the 125 RPM drop and bring it back to 50 RPM like before.


Good luck with your choice! I would get one emag and a normal mag. One thing about direct fire emags-With direct firing you can't bundle the leads.

Best regards,
Mike Bauer
 
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I recently acquired an airplane with one tractor mag and one electronic mag. I was so impressed with the electronic mags performance I called the manufacturer to inquire about replacing the tractor mag with a second electronic mag. He talked me out of it! He said just the one electronic mag provides nearly all the benefit I could expect and that I would be disappointed by the lack of improvement from a second electronic mag. He also noted the improved redundancy of having a completely separate, self contained traditional mag.

I figured if was willing to lose a sale like that he must really sincere in his beliefs and who was I to argue. But he has me as a customer for life and any subsequent airplanes I get without an electronic mag will be getting one of his systems.

George

That is good logic with a good reason behind it. :D
 
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The easiest thing would be to go with two mags. Pretty close to 100% of the cert. aircraft are using them. Next, after 200 to 300 hours, by which time you will really know the airplane, swap out one mag for one of the many alternatives.
Fly for another 150 hours or so and either rebuild the mag if you are happy with how things work, or add the second electronic ignition.
If you do it this way you will know if there are improvements that are important to you and your airplane.
I fly with one electronic ignition and one mag. I like it but that does not mean that you will.
 
Two Pmags for this reason: The Pmags change the timing based on RPM/MP. If you did one standard mag it would always be firing off time from the Pmag, either doing nothing or negating the timing change of the Pmag. The purpose of two plugs per cylinder is to have a larger, even flame front across the large bore area. You loose that if you are firing from only one side.
 
Dual P-Mags

First one installed


Both in place


Me and my build instructor Darrell


Thanks everyone for all the helpful advice. This forum rocks!
 
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Two Pmags for this reason: The Pmags change the timing based on RPM/MP. If you did one standard mag it would always be firing off time from the Pmag, either doing nothing or negating the timing change of the Pmag. The purpose of two plugs per cylinder is to have a larger, even flame front across the large bore area. You loose that if you are firing from only one side.

And I though the two plugs per cylinder in traditional aircraft engines was for reliability since there are two magnetos usually involved. :)

Could two magnetos even fire a single plug easily?
 
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