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RV-9A, pilotjohns

PilotjohnS

Well Known Member
Well the fun begins. Took the $50000 free test flight this morning and have a RV9 tail kit in the car, heading back to Los Angeles.

Been dreaming of building since i was 17.

Plan is for cross country machine io320 high altitude cruiser. G3X glass. Basic and simple.

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What I built before from scratch; no plans, no nothing except a skillsaw, a makita drill and a bunch of homemade jigs. (and the wife gone for two weeks)

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Good luck. It WILL change your life if you stick with it. Just imagine, before long you won't think twice about heading across the country at 13.5k' sucking on a little O2 with the autopilot set, eating a sandwich and watching the world go by.

I'm still trying to unlock the mystery of why a subway sandwich above 12k' tastes so darn good.

Let me introduce you to your neighbor and my good buddy Rosie. You should be just in time for 2019...
 
Well the fun begins. Took the $50000 free test flight this morning and have a RV9 tailkit in the car, heading back to Los Angeles.

Been dreaming of building since i was 17.

Plan is for cross country machine io320 high altitude cruiser. G3X glass. Basic and simple.

$50,000? HA! Hope you have more than that. :D

I'd be happy to give you a motivation flight any time. I'm down in SD.
 
Thanks

Thanks everyone for the words of encouragement. Bruce I just might take you up on your offer. And Vald, you are my motivator with all your stories.
On my bucket list is a flight to Puerto Rico, so.....

Derek and Scott, Hope you don't mind a few questions in the future; it is great to have people like you in this community.
 
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Status Update

Just an update on where I have been.

After the great big learning curve on airplane tools, I think it is time to begin. The tools were not really more expensive than I anticipated, but just mind numbing with all the options. I think this is where a weekend course or the guidance of an experience builder would come in handy; before buying having tried the tools on a sample project, or helping another builder and learning the tools, would probably have saved some grief. But I do want to thank my friends who have stepped up and helped my out with tools they no longer use.


I started looking at the practice kit, and realized one of the first tools I need, is not one I had anticipated buying right away; that is a close quarters dimple die set. But the practice kit needs this for the ribs. So that is on the way. These tools are not really expensive in terms of dollars, but are in terms of time waiting to get started.


Next stop on this journey is completion of the practice kit, to see if I feel good enough to start on things that will leave this earth (and I don't mean being flung across the yard in a desperate rage)


I made the standard EAA workbench... except I used 3/4 melamine, made a 2 inch lip all around for clamping, and added inserts to hold the DRDT2. I also made a lazy susan for the drill press, grinder and belt sander (not shown) so that I can put this up against the wall and minimize wall space for these tools. Notice the tail feathers on the shelf with the earthquake safety straps around the boxes ;-) Next to the band saw is the real estate for the compressor. Hopefully I can wire it for 220V to minimize the light flicker when it turns on. Besides the compressor, the only thing left to do is add the retractable power cord and retractable air hose, both mounted on the ceiling.
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Just a word of advice, you may already know this, but..... Don't get in a hurry and buy electronics, wait until you need to install them, they will evolve, get better and sometimes cheaper. War Story Alert: I know a guy who has been building for over 20 years, he has a NIB Northstar Loran on the shelf. Don't buy an engine until you need it, keep an eye for good deals while you build and know the going rate before pulling the handle. Chrome and fancy paint doesn't make it run a bit better. And the last piece of advice that served me well on my RV-9A build, (13 build months) do something every day, and don't quit until you have set no less than 10 rivets. Good luck and build on. Dan
 
The lazy susan is a good idea, haven't seen that before. It might be desirable to include the ability to clamp it or have a rotation lock at some point. Something to allow for.

Have fun building!

Dave
RV-3B now aligning fuselage bulkheads
 
Tungsten bar?

Make sure you have a tungsten bucking bar in your tool arsenal. Makes setting rivets so much better. Your shop is coming along nicely.
 
You should be just in time for 2019...[/QUOTE]
If I may ask, is there something happening in 2019 that I need to make sure my plane is done for? That would be a good goal!!
 
2019

I think 2019 refers to the next Rosie Grand Tour.

Thanks all for the advice. This site is wonderful and I think that this is the most important tool.
 
Progress

So I am making progress on the sample wing section practice kit from Vans. This practice kit uses all the tools so is very helpful in getting to know my way around cleco pliers and such.

A word about reamers and drill bits; the holes in the parts are prepunched on a very precise CNC machine so everything lines up. If things don't line up, something is wrong. I found the clecos from Brown Tools are professional grade and line up the holes precisely. The prepunched holes are slightly undersized and need to be enlarged to final size. This can be done with a standard drill bit or a reamer bit. The reamer looks like a drill bit but the flutes are straight up and down. I use the reamer just like a drill bit and enlarge the holes to final size. The reamer produces a nice clean hole that is perfectly round and others say less prone to cracking; reamers also tend to leave smaller burrs so deburring seems to be minimal.

Deburring was a challenge. Most of the tools I tried for deburring the holes were too aggressive. I found what works best was a 120 degree counter sink on the end of a tapped rod. And for the skin edges, the old tried and true butterfly deburring tool works great (red handle on bench). For drilling out bad rivets, the drill press was invaluable. I can lock the piece down to the table and use an end mill to knock off the head. It turns out the heads of a squeezed rivet are pretty hard and it is easy to bugger the flight piece if not careful. All the more reason to make the rivets right the first time, quality is never having to say rework. I also made a holder for the clecos. This was suggested by a mechanic friend and was a great idea.

I thought I would get away without having a belt sander, then I realize the reinforcing strips of the practice kit didn't fit without heavy mods. I tried to trim with snips and files, but was not happy with the results, so I broke down and bought a belt sander and added it to my lazy Susan in the background. What a difference. I also tried to rivet with the DRDT2 in the foreground and that was hopeless; there was no way to secure the part and operate the handle while keeping everything aligned. My best rivets were with the Cleveland Main Squeeze shown in the corner of the bench; what a nice tool. I used the close edge dimpling tool attached to the bench in the corner with the rivet gun to dimple the ribs; this was noisy and brutal. The results were good, but it is still too out of control for my liking. So next time I will either use the Main Squeeze or I will make a top guide for the rivet tool to keep everything lined up. The less I rely on my holding things straight, the better the results seem to be. Jigs are our friends.

Also, having the work well secured seems to make it much easier to add a little English to the tools to keep everything lined up as the rivets are formed.

I feel confident that the skills I have tested on this kit are good enough for real parts. Next up this weekend is the riveting the skins to the spars and completing the practice kit, and then having my mechanic friends review and critique.

So I am making progress. Who needs sleep, there is plenty of time to sleep when I am not building.

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Horizontal Stab Progress

This weeks progress has been the first half of the first page of the instructions. I have decided not to count hours; I don't really want to know. So if anybody asks, the answer is 1/2 a page :) And I will be done on Tuesday. I figure counting hours would be like these credit card mileage plans; they are a scam to get one to buy more stuff one didn't know one needed.


So all ribs and spars for Horizontal stab will be done tomorrow. I am looking forward to the first flight rivet in two weeks, I figure.


I originally tried the butterfly deburring tool on the ribs, but this didn't work. I tried a scotch bright wheel, and this seemed similar to using a die grinder to trim fingernails.


What I settled on was 1/4" strips of 320 grit sandpaper with the part clamped loosely into a plastic hobby vise. It might take a little longer than the scotch-brite wheel, but I think it will feel a whole lot better when I am 3 miles up.


The spars were a challenge not so much because they were hard, but because they take careful work. Here precision seems to pay off.


I still haven't decide to prime or not, but am leaning towards primingand painting rear spar white to match the elevator hinge brackets, and then priming all faying surfaces using with rattle can primer and paint.


Steady progress is my goal.
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Primer Woes

As I complete the horizontal stab dimpling and prepping for assembly, I was hit with the infamous primer plaque.

My plan was to use rattle can primer on the horizontal stabilizer because there are holes in the rear spar and water can get in when parked. Since primer is not required, I figure simple rattle can would be adequate without the hassle of the two part stuff. Boy was I wrong. The rattle can went on fine and hardened up Ok after a week, but any hint of a chemical nearby and it curled up and was useless.

In addition, when priming the spars, a few drops of sweat got under the primer and got trapped there. Of course this will stay forever since the primer seals out, and seals in, moisture. Come to find out this leads to corrision problems. So I had to go over the spars and remove the primer where moisture got trapped. Then during touch up, the old primer reacted and a mess was made. I was able to get the front spars acceptable, but the rear spars required stripping the primer off completely.

For the priming, I think the only way to go is two part primer. The factory recommended sherwin Williams s60g2 was out of stock. I plan to reprime the rear spars with this two part primer. It is more work, but the rear spar seems to be the most exposed to the elements.
Lesson learned: learn from others, do what others have had success with. In this case two part primer

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You're doing the right thing by not counting hours. I am and it hasn't been making me happy.

Dave,
RV-3B, now on the fuselage
 
First Rivets

Let the flaming begin!

I managed to get my first part riveted together. This is the horizontal stabilizer's front spar. I felt it came out pretty good.

So I am not counting hours, but this took me 6 weeks to get here, I originally figured 2 weeks. So my concept of schedule is a little off. Maybe I WILL buy that quick build fuse.
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DRDT2 just for dimpling

I may have misread one of your earlier posts, but it sounded like you were trying to set rivets with the DRDT2? I have the DRDT2 and it's great for dimpling but as I understand, is not meant for setting rivets.

You're making great progress! And unless there's a specific date you want to be finished by, I'd recommended not thinking about schedules and such. We always tend to underestimate how long it takes to do something. Life can bring unavoidable interruptions as well and it's easy to start feeling bummed that you didn't get as far as you'd like. I started in 2012 and am only now working on the elevators. Just keep at it and you'll get there.

Cheers!
 
Nice

Always fun seeing and hearing about people getting started. It will be an amazing journey. Enjoy it all, you will learn so much.

Blue skies.
 
Thanks for the words of encouragement

Shamit
I discovered during the practice kits the DRDT2 doesn't set rivets so I use the squeezer or the compressor. I was planning to have the tail done before the wings showed up, but I realized I am taking twice as long as others. I am in no hurry and still try to balance family. But the education I am receiving is not what I expected.
 
Making real hardware, not scrap

This weekend, I was able to complete the right side of the horizontal stabilizer. And the local high school celebrated with fireworks.

This was a major riveting sessions. I wish I would have bought a tungsten bucking bar for the nose ribs; it is really hard getting in there; those rivets aren't pretty but acceptable because I had to make do with the bars I had. I tried using a big chisel and other thin steel objects, but they just didn't have the mass to buck. It can be done with the standard bucking bars, but just takes time and yoga.


This kit is very precisely made; if the holes are off by a few thousandths of an inch, then something is wrong. The skin needed some clearance filing around the front spar brackets. Otherwise the skin would have been right up against the brackets. This could produce a squeak in flight, or worse, be a start for skin cracking. A few swipes of a jeweler file relieved the skin a few hundredths of an inch.
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Buy that tungsten bucking bar now. You'll thank me every time you rivet. :D

Let me know if you want a tech counselor visit. I'm happy to fly up to LA any time.
 
HA! Hope you have more than that. :D


The panel is the expensive part but whatever you spend it will be well worth the money,
Even my wife agrees !!!
RV9's rock
 
Busy few weeks

These last few weeks have seen great progress.

The horizontal stabilizer is complete less the rear spar; waiting for the rear spar to be primed before installation. The vertical stabilizer is ready to be primed, then riveted.

I had a tech counselor visit and reviewed my work to date; all is well. We went for a quick flight in his RV9; it flies really well and seems to yearn to be in the sky.

The tech counselor showed me his tungsten bucking bar, and I now own one too. This is a must have tool in my opinion, especially for the front rivets in the horizontal stab. I would recommend buying the smaller bar, something like the 1/2" x 1/2" x 4" for less than $100. I got a slightly larger one and it seems a little over kill for the tail feathers, but will probably be good for the beefier fuselage and wing rivets.

In addition to finishing the horizontal stab and making good progress on the vertical stab, I picked up the wing kit from the factory. I also picked up Proseal for the rudder and the locking gas caps. I would like to have the wings started before the New Year.
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Looking good, John! The hardest thing about that horizontal stab was threading it through the front door and into the spare bedroom for storage. :)
 
The wings are much easier to build than the empennage. A lot of repetition but the final product of a SB wing is beautiful. I recommend doing both wings simultaneously. Enjoy!
 
Take your time and enjoy it. Most builders I know do miss it when it is completed. I just started the wings on my RV9 and it is indeed a lot more repetitive compared to the empennage. I kinda like that, but I also planned ahead based on different builder sites I follow. One of the things that you can do ahead is preparing the ribs for example. It is time consuming and you don't want to do this all at once. No rush, enjoy!
 
Priming Lessons

So....
Started using the proper primer instead of the rattle can stuff from the local auto parts store. This is the same Sherwin Williams P60G2 primer that Vans Aircraft uses, but in the US it is tinted green.

There is a fellow builder, Sam, using Dupont Veriprime615s. He seems to have had great success brushing the primer on. This sounded great and easy. So I tried that technique with the SW P60G2 on the rear spar of the horizontal stabilizer. Here are my results:
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They have a molted appearance, but all the metal is covered, and it isn't too thick... But man is it fugly (really ugly).

So I bit the bullet and decided to brush up on my painting skills using a spray gun (pun intended). I was 18 the last time I painted aircraft parts with epoxy paint; all I remember is plan and prep, plan and prep. I was going to build a spray booth, or downdraft table, but this was a lot of infrastructure, and stressing over this became no fun. So I just decided to keep it simple and spray the stuff with cardboard on an old table. The stuff dries really fast once sprayed. And the over spray is easy to control since it is going on very thin; not much worse than rattle cans.

It worked out well. The primer was hard to get mixed up, until I took it to a paint store and had them shake it. Mixing the catalyst was easy, felt just like old times. My prep is simple: Scotchbrite the dimples and very smooth areas of the skins and spars, wipe down with acetone using gloves, and then spray. I don't go for this 3 stage process others are using with etch, alodine, and whatever. (Some people don't even prime, and the plane comes out fine; do you believe that? ;-)

Below is my vertical stuff all primed. Maybe I will wait a day before assembling, to give it time to harden.
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This has been a huge learning curve but now time to move on. Not sure if I will prime the wings or not. But probably wont prime the fuse because I will be crawling in there a lot and I want the reflection of the metal to help with lighting during inspection.
 
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Rudder Fun

Well I have been working on the rudder. By far the most difficult part to date. This piece requires taking the time to plan and figure things out.

I didn't want to buck all the rivets because my bucked rivets are not as good as those when I use the squeezer. So I had to buy a 4" yoke for the squeezer to reach the rivets.

Also the screws that hold the lead counter weight are #10 with a 100 degree countersink. So had to get a #10 dimple die for this screw. Lastly, I had to relieve the lead weight to clear the forward most rivets of the rib.

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I needed what is called a longeron yoke to get the rivets on the control bracket, but didn't have one. I ended up putting a nut under the rivet set on the squeezer and this worked.
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When I riveted on the doublers and nut plates to the spar, the 3/8" heim joints would not screw in. So I drilled out the rivets, inserted the heim joints in the nut plates and then riveted the doublers and nut plates to the spar. This was the only way to get everything lined up while riveting and I had to use the 4" yoke and longeron trick. The heim joints are aircraft grade and are very fine thread, so are easy to strip out; gotta treat these as the high value aircraft parts that they are.

To make the trailing edge angle tooling that will hold it straight while assembling, I match drill all the trailing edge parts, then double sided taped the apex strip to the aluminum angle and match drilled the angle to the apex strip using the drill press.
When countersinking the trailing edge apex piece I made a simple wood jig and used a allen wrench that was just big enough to hold the trailing edge flat.

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No where in the instruction manual did it say when to rivet on the rudder bracket. This should be done just before the first skin is riveted on. I riveted the top of the skin near the balanced weight, and then had to carefully lift it up to get the rivets squeezed holding the bottom bracket; it would have been better to do the bracket before the skin.

As per the instructions, I bonded the trailing edge together with pro-seal using the aluminum angle tooling on the outside to keep everything straight, waited three days, and then riveted. The trailing edge came out straight, but I seem to have gotten some separation of the trailing edge skins from the AEX wedge, and some pillowing between the rivets. This really bothered me until I read other blogs, and I am not the first. There is pro-seal on all the surfaces, so it is not an adhesion problem. Maybe it was too thick. Next time I will use a scrap pick of angle and squeeze the trailing edge together using seaming pliers immediately after assembly. This should squeeze out the extra pro-seal leaving a very thin layer to bond, hopefully eliminating the pillowing. For the separation, I tried re-riveting the end but it didn't change anything. It is acceptable, just not preferred. Maybe in a year or two, if I haven't come up with anything better, I was thinking of adding some JB weld to the seam to fill in the gap, making for a rigid, impervious, blunt trailing edge; nothing I can do about the pillowing and it is very slight.
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Elevators

So now that the rudder is done (less the fiberglass work) I have moved on to the elevator. Not much different than the rudder. The construction seems to be not any more difficult, except for the trim tab, but no worries. The elevator tip ribs have several rivet holes in the trailing edge that are very tight. However, turns out the factory has pre dimpled these holes. Thank you,... thank you very much. In blogs of builders who have come before me, this had been a problem so this stress I dont have to deal with.
One thing the plans didn't tell is how to deal with the trim plate that holds the trim servo or the trim cable. By looking at other blogs, I figured out the rivets that hold the nut plates need to be countersunk. I chose to do this before assembly. The plate is a little thin, but these rivets are non structural since the screws will hold everything together when assembled, so I am not worried about over countersinking. This turned out not to be an issue.

I am ready to start assembly of the elevator, but wouldn't you know it, its raining in Los Angeles, go figure. So am on hold until I can spray primer. Maybe I should re-introduce myself to the kids ;-)

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Elevator priming and deburring

So got the elevator skins, ribs and all remaining parts primed today. I found it much easier to deburr and prime the skins and ribs before match drilling. What I did was to deburr the holes as they came from the factory using 300 grit paper on the inside, then wiped down the inside of the skin with lacquer thinner, let dry and then prime. When I get around to match drilling to final size, I will use a reamer instead of a drill bit and touch up the holes afterward with a counter sink. Using the reamer, it seems the major burrs are from the factory punch, not from match drilling.
In order to prime the skins, I built a jig to hold open the skins.
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Right elevator

The right elevator is coming along but I had trouble getting to the two rivets shown in the picture below that are back in the gap at the top left of the blue-covered skin. Turns out I was assembling the tip rib incorrectly; the tip skin goes underneath the main skin, I had the main skin underneath the tip skin. By doing it the right way, the main skin can be opened up, providing good access to these rivets. When I followed the directions, it was easy.

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On the bottom skin, when attaching it to the spar, the instructions said I could use either all pop rivets or a mix of pop rivets and the much stronger squeezed rivets. I chose to use a mix of pop and squeezed rivets. This made it much harder. I think if I were to build another elevator, I would just use all pulled rivets for the bottom skin to spar; much easier and less grief than having a combo of the two.

For bonding the trailing edge, I used the T88 epoxy instead of the tank sealant. The T88 is mentioned on the plans as an alternate material. I hoped it will provide less pillowing and better bond on the trailing edge than what I had on the rudder. But I have a feeling the pillowing and bonding is due to the metal being riveted so close to the edge, not the bond material. OK I give, the main reason I used the epoxy is because it is a 1 to 1 mix, whereas the tank sealant is a 4.5 to 1 mix. I didn't have a good enough scale to weigh out the sealant and I didn't want to wait three days for Amazon to bring me one. Previously on the rudder, when I mixed the tank sealant, I discovered my Target scale did not read fractions of a gram, so I guessed the mix ratios and luckily got it right.

In summary the right elevator took quite a bit longer than the rudder; mostly because there are many more rivets. The lessons learned on the rudder provided a bit of education and familiarity.

Once the epoxy dried, I riveted the trailing edge per the instructions. This went much better than the rudder, but still had the same separation of the skin very slightly from the AEX tapered strip. I eliminated puckering between the rivets by gently squeezing out the epoxy with a seaming pliers. I think the only way to keep the skin tight to the trailing edge is to use some structural adhesive, like JB weld, or to edge break the trailing edge before dimpling. I will try the edge break method on the left trailing edge. Edge breaking puts a slight crease in the skin edge so it sits tight to the AEX tapered piece. This is described in the plans.

Overall I am happy with the right elevator. I think I could do a perfect job on the left now with this experience. (Right !!! wishful thinking see next post.)
 
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Left Elevator

The left side elevator started out much smoother than the right. I was able to get the stiffeners back riveted no sweet by using the same method as the right elevator. Here is a picture of how I did both. The plans says to use rivet tape and tape all the rivets in place. I don't like that. My general rule is to have the pieces tight together before riveting. So, I used a completely different method since I know more than the guys at the factory who have built 20 more years of airplanes than me.:)

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So my method uses a cleco in the hole adjacent to the one I am riveting. The rivet plate is taped to the bench and cardboard is used to hold the assembly up off the table. The cardboard has a cut out for the clecos that hold the stiffener to the skin. I start at the trailing edge and insert a rivet one at a time, back rivet and then advance to the next hole. Since I am not using tape against the rivet, the rivet gets marred by the vibration of the rivet gun; but I am painting, so I don't care. The clecos keep the skin straight as I flex and contort it to get the gun on the rivets.

The spar went well but I learned from the right side and made all the bottom rivets the pull type (with the larger dash 4 hole size) I guess if I really want to, I could have squeezed dash 4 in the holes I could get too, but that seemed like over kill.

But again, riveting on the tip gave me trouble. More so than the previous elevator tip. The new parts will be here this week. We don't need to discuss this further, but lets just say, the new tools (1/8" double offset rivet set) will also be here this week. And another lessons learned, make sure the bucking bar is on the rivet and not sitting on a cleco holding the skins together. Last lessons learned, take pictures of riveting setups. Part of this trouble came about because I forgot the exact setup I had used successfully on the right side for the same rivets. Moving on...

I have started to work on the elevator trim tab. It is not as bad as others make it out to be... yet. But it seems many before me had trouble bending the skin tabs down. Knowing this, I will probably make up so samples and perfect my technique before doing the flight parts. Now I am off to cut the grass, paint the house, lose weight, before I start building again.... OK maybe just cut the grass... Naw, lets get building!
 
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Elevator Trim Tab

Today was a rainy day in Los Angeles; perfect day to be building. I knew it was going to rain, because the original internet (the sky) sent two bits of data yesterday from Santa Barbara saying it would be so. Here is a picture of the data; or maybe this was the dashed line you see on the weather maps.

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So the elevator trim tab went well but I did not follow the directions verbatim. They say this is the part that everyone has trouble with, and if I had followed the directions exactly as written, I would have had trouble too. But planning this out yesterday, while the internet data was being received, I decide that there was a better way.

I followed the plans as written up until the trim tab horn is dimpled. I chose to dimple and rivet the trim tab horn after the ends were bent over. But let me walk through the order I did things.

I matched drilled the holes and deburred per the plans, but did not dimple any holes yet. I bent the trailing edge to the correct angle as per the plans using a 4 foot section of 2x 4 and some el cheapo hinges from the aviation aisle of Lowe's, as per the plans.

Then I built the bending blocks for the ends as per the plans.I practiced on some scrap aluminum until I felt comfortable working on the expensive stuff. I left the blue plastic on and used double sided tape to keep the blocks from moving as I dressed the ends. This didn't work completely as planned, as the trailing edge in the forming blocks still moved a little as I bent over the ends; but still came out acceptable. I used a piece of 1" x 2" wood to start the bend. Then I used the flush rivet set in the rivet gun and really gently smashed over the edge till 90 degrees. I had previously filed in a 1/16" radius in the bending block to form a nice radius in the finished bend. I worked the gun back and forth until the bend radius was even without smashing it completely.

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The skin area for the trim tab horn was not dimpled or riveted earlier (as the plans would have had you do) because then the trim tab wouldn't sit nicely in the forming blocks. So now I went back and dimpled the trim tab holes. It is interesting to note the #40 holes in the spar and the skin seemed to already be punched to final size, but I went back and reamed them anyway to clean up the holes.

Then I riveted the trim tab horn to the skin, except for the trim tab to spar holes, per plans. There is a spare to skin hole outside of the trim tab that I didn't dimple before the trim tab horn was riveted on. So I had to dimple this after the trim tab horn was on. This presented a problem in that there was no enough room next to the horn for the dimple die to sit down properly. I ended up drilling a hole in some scrap aluminum the same thickness as the trim tab horn and dimpled these two sheets at the same time. In the picture below you can see the hole and the scrap sheet. Next time, I will dimple this hole before the horn is riveted on. I also bonded the two halves of the trim tab together, using JB Weld, to keep the moisture from wicking in between and possible causing corrosion.

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Next I deburred and dimpled the #30 holes in the ends. These get pop rivets later.

When riveting the spar to the lower trim tab skin, the tungsten bucking bar is essential. I don't feel this can be done without a tungsten bar because the normal bars are just too big.

Everything else that followed, was done per the plans; nothing special.

I should be seeing the replacement parts for the elevator tip rib in a few days, so I will be finishing that up.
 
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Finishing Left Elevator

The left elevator was finished as expected with no issues, except for some reason, the elevator skin to the rear spar had a gap once everything was assembled; probably no more than 0.002", so most likely within spec without being touched. So as I riveted the spar to skin to hinge, I would use the squeezer to re dimple the whole structure, then set the rivet, then move on to the next hole. This was more annoying than anything else.
Moving on to final elevator assembly.
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Tail Complete, less tips

Yahooooo!
Tail is complete less tips.
The elevators were assembled onto the horizontal stabilizer with no issues. Remember the horizontal stabilizer is the first thing to be built. It is sure obvious to me that building the tail feathers taught me a lot about building. I am glad I started with the tail as per Van's recommendations. There is definitely a learning curve to this. Here is a shot of the completed tail, taken from far enough away to hide my lessons learned. No seriously, the elevator was inspected by a tech counselor, so no worries, all is good. But it is going to be a painted airplane, no polished aluminum for me.

The elevator attach was easy. Everything was square and true. I only had to screw in one heim joint 1/2 turn to make both sides even within 0.010". It is quite amazing how close everything lined up. What an amazing kit.
Now to find a place to store it. And start the wings.

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Lessons Learned:
1) Use proseal on the trailing edges. I use the T88 epoxy on the elevators to try and keep the skins from separating. All this did was make a mess to clean up; the epoxy squeezed out and cured onto the outer surface of the aluminum skins, and was a bear to clean off. The proseal clean up was much easier.
2) Instead, use the wood block that was built during the practice kits to break the skin's edge to prevent the edges from separating during the trailing edge gluing/riveting.
3) For the trailing edge rivets, don't use the back rivet set for the final setting of the rivets, it is better to use the rivet set with a hole in it and a the 1/4" diameter flat rivet die used for squeezing the -3 rivets. The reason is the back rivet set is slightly concave, whereas the flush set is flat with rounded edges.
4) The use of a double offset -4 set for the tip ribs to spar is a necessity. This lesson cost me a new tip rib.
5) Without a tungsten bucking bar, the skin to elevator spar rivets would have been nearly impossible. The extra mass and small size is really needed.
6) When using the rivet gun, run the pressure as low as possible, like 30 -40 psi, to prevent tweaking the underlying structure.
 
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Wings Begun

After having mastered the tail section, now it is time to start taking bigger bites. Goal is to have the wings done by August for a late summer trip to Vans to pick up the fuselage kit. At least this is what I am telling people. The real goal is to have the garage cleaned out enough to get the fuselage kit inside by August.


The wing spars went together fine, but there are some minor things to be aware of. I had to look at a few other builders website and a few pictures of their spars to figure out the plans.(Thank you, thank you, and thank you)


First thing is the inboard spar doubler gets several countersunk holes. 3 of these are for the gap fairing that will have another thin sheet between the countersunk hole and the rivet. Therefore these 3 have to be set 0.007" deeper to allow for the skin. The other countersunk holes just see the rivet so these are set flush. Now there are regular rivets up near the top web. These are called out as standard rivets, but they are very close to the rivets that will be used for the skin attach and not sure if I can get a bucking bar on them. I am wondering if these should be flush rivets instead. I followed the plans, because I don't know what I don't know, but I did put the manufactured head on the outside so I could drill it out if I have to switch rivet styles later. Here is a pick of the root doubler and the rivets.

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The tip was fairly straight forward except the plans do not call out leaving out the rivets for the aileron bracket. So only the inboard six holes got rivets right now. Seems this is the same as the root doubler, only 6 rivets installed at this stage.
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After these steps were done, it doesn't seem like much was accomplished, but this was a full page, so it is a good start on the wings. Now to deburr and straighten the ribs. And get the wings build jigs bolted to the garage floor.
 
Wings-ribs

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These are my wing ribs all deburred.

The two yellow spools are the sandpaper I used for deburring the holes and flange edges. I also used just a loose sheet of 220 grit pinched between my fingers for the long straight flanges. The abrasive spools were a 1/16" rope and a 1/4" flat ribbon. This worked really well. I probably used 25% of a 25 foot roll. Many of the rib flanges were fairly well deburred already, so it didn't take much more for me to be satisfied. The lightening holes needed the most effort.

I also built the rib flange forming thing-a-ma-gig sitting on the table. It forms the flanges to the perfect 90 degrees to the rib web. It works very well. However, when I tried it out, I grabbed a nose rib and looked at the flange. It measured almost perfect without me having to touch it. Then I looked at the center rib, seems perfect too. Did I spend half a day and $20 on this thing for nothing? I will finish up checking the flange angles tonight. But I will probably be too embarrassed to tell anyone how useful, or useless, this tool was. It is well worth the effort to construct for the flanges on the tail ribs, wish I had it then. But I hope I never have to rebuild the tail feathers. I am very grateful Vans aligned the flanges on these ribs; saved a ton of work.

Also in the picture are the mods I plan to make to the ribs. I talked to Van's Aircraft support on Friday and they said what I had planned seemed reasonable. If you wish to follow my example, please check with Van's yourself. So here is my plan: for the nose rib, I will enlarge the internal fuel vent hole from 1/4" to 1/2". (This is not the hole the vent tube goes thru, but the one that will be at the high point when filling the tanks.) The stock hole seems really small to me, and others have complained the tanks are slow to fill. I don't plan on doing aerobatics, nor uncoordinated flight (who does?), so I am not worried if these enlarged holes cause the fuel to slosh around a little more. For the main rib, I plan to follow the supplemental instructions on the Van's Aircraft site and add a hole in the main web to the right of the first lightening hole in the picture. This will be 3/4" per the supplemental instructions. Also the RV9 plans say it is permissible to enlarge the forward tooling hole to 1/2". But the same Van's supplement says the RV7 and 8 can enlarge this to 5/8". I will follow the 9 plans and only enlarge to 1/2 ".

Lastly in the picture, behind the table, are the wings stands for the spars. I plan to build both wings at once. These stands are a God send. Thank you to the builder Billy who provided them.

So that is my plan. Onward and upward, (well not yet anyway) :-(
 
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Harvesting Clecos for Wings

So have started building the wings. Not much to write about as everything started out well and went as per plans. Of course as I was saying this to myself I did find some "knowledge" was needed, and a few bandages. But I am getting ahead of myself.

Here is the bountiful harvest of clecos. And a warning. Just go ahead and order a thousand 3/32 clecos; if ordered all at once, there is a break in the price at a thousand, and the shipping is only one time. I am on my fourth cleco order; UPS is making bucks on shipping. Here is my cleco farm, ready for harvest. I am doing both wings at the same time, so this is only one of the two wings, Yes I ran out of clecos; the rest are coming in time for the tanks. Total clecos count will be slightly more than a thousand.
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The main skins went on as per plans, no real drama, except I had a few holes in the rear spar where the holes in the rib, spar and skin didn't line up. Next time I need to make sure the rib holes line up with the rear spar during the rib to rear spar riveting. It is kind of tough to do it after the rib to spar rivets are in.

I didn't quite follow the plans when I put the J stringers in. I indeed drilled through my finger, even though the plans say "be careful don't drill through your finger". Speaking of J stringers, I had to make the short one a half inch longer to pick up the third rivet hole in the skin.

The leading edge ribs are notoriously for being hard to fit into the skin. During my first attempt, when the virgin ribs were inserted into the leading edge skin, the rib webs were actually warping from straight in order to fit the leading edge radius of the pre bent skin. This is ugly, and causes scratches and bumps on the leading edge of the skin. When compared to the fiberglass tip, I think the pre-bent skins have a different leading edge profile causing a poor fit. Here is a picture of the virgin rib fitting onto the skin. Notice how the tabs in front of the prepunched hole are holding the skin away.
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I also rounded the tabs so they won't cause a dimple on the leading edge.

Everything fits much better. I am being careful to make the left and right wings the same, since this portion of the wing contributes to the flying qualities. Here is a picture of the reworked rib installed on the left leading edge. There is still a gap between the rib and the leading edge. I don't think it hurts anything, but I might throw some extra proseal in there when I do the tanks.
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I also had an interference on one of the ribs to the spar rivets. This is the rib closest to the tank. Not hard to take care of. I am continuing on and looking forward to the Proseal Challenge.
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Tanks

I have been working on the fuel tanks. The Pro-seal is about to expire, so have been a mad man trying to get the tanks together.
Everything went per plans, but did some things that made it easier. Since I am doing both wings at the same time, the tooling and jigs get setup and taken down only once, so things go quick.
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I made a template and verified the tank leading edge shape matched the outboard leading edge. The left wing I nailed perfectly, but the right I had to disassembly the ribs and tweak slightly. I also made the end ribs of the tank fit the curve of the skin as near perfect as possible to minimize the gap the Pro-seal has to fill in.
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For the tank brackets I made a wood jig to hold the brackets and get the middle hole centered. Of course, all the brackets came from the factory exactly same length, except for two_Oh well.

The brackets are installed on the baffle and the line centered in the baffle holes. Then the remaining holes are drilled using the baffle as the drill guide. I found out that the baffle is not symmetrical; there is a top and bottom. In addition, the baffle flange orientation is mirrored on the right, but not shown explicitly on the plans, leading to additional confusion. You are warned.
After the brackets are drilled to the baffle they are installed on the tank, and the tank is installed on the wing for match drilling to the spar. There were several gotchas:
1) The baffle has a top and bottom, the prepunched holes are not symmetrical top to bottom.
2) The distance from the baffle to the spar is too close for clecos near the root. If I tried to use clecos to hold the tank skin to the baffle, the baffle and wing tank did not sit on the wing properly.
3) others have dimpled the baffle rivet holes; I don't see how this will not work on the RV9 since there is not enough clearance; I think the baffle rivet holes need to be countersunk per the plans.

After the brackets are match drilled to the spar, the riv-nuts are installed. I used a bolt and nut to drill the brackets for the rivets as in the pic. (The hole in the wood is for the nut to rest in.)
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The rest went as per plans, nothing special. Prior to priming, I edge rolled the seams very slightly using my thumb technique. Not sure if this is needed, but I do not want any of the skins lifting off the spar and I could not find anyone on line who regretted doing this.
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Lastly, I primed in prep for final assembly. The plans say only the bracket needs to be primed, but my minimum amount to mix easily is 50 ml. Not wanting to waste any, I primed the outside of the skins where they will rest on the spar and splice plate, the outside of the two end ribs, and the backside of the baffle. I am thinking the tanks may sweat when full of fuel, so I figure it wouldn't hurt to prime the outside that is exposed.
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With all this work, I think I am ready for final assembly of the tanks. hope I have enough clecos ;-)
 
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Fuel Tanks - Part Duex, Is it a comedy or tragedy?

Tank assembly begins!
The bottom stiffeners were installed per the plans. I mixed up 1 gram of Proseal per linear inch, and this was just about right, taking into account losses from leaving stuff on the mixing plate, smeared on the ceiling, etc. Did I mention this stuff gets everywhere?

The next day, I mixed up another batch of Proseal per the instructions, and using the baggy technique, applied it to the ribs. I then cleco'd the ribs to the bottom skin using a cleco in every hole.

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In the same session, I mixed a second batch and applied Proseal to the top of the ribs, inserted the tank into the frame and cleco'd the top of the skin to the ribs, again using a cleco in every hole. Then I smoothed the excess bleed out with the tip of the plastic knife, and let it set overnight. I added tape to keep the skins from spreading due to the Proseal's viscosity.

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The next day, I came back and removed every cleco four at a time and used the #40 (-3) countersink to clean up the dimples. This removed the excess squeeze out and removed a sliver of aluminum to provide virgin material for the rivet to seal against.

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I did not use "tank dies" but just the normal dimple dies. During riveting, the Proseal squeezed out and all that remained was what was needed to fill in the voids; Just my opinion.

The riveting went fine. I had to drill out a few clinchers, because the Proseal makes everything slippery. Also, if I didn't press the rivet down in the hole and squeeze out the excess, I would invariably get a rivet sitting proud. I used a hemostat to place the rivet in the hole filled with Proseal, pushing lightly to squeeze out the excess goop. Then I cleaned off the outside with a acetone-damped rag, cleaned the mushroom set, and riveted. I found using lower air pressure and feathering the trigger helped set the rivets without clinching. With 30 grams mixed, I was able to set 3 rows on the bottom, coat the shop heads and fillet the three ribs before the stuff started getting hard. It took me three nights over a week to get each skin on. With this fay sealing method, there was not a rush to set all the rivets in one session; I felt this made for much better results because I wasn't stressed trying to rivet everything before the Proseal set up.

The tanks skins and ribs are all riveted now. Looking back, I don't know why I was so apprehensive, but it was a learning experience. As a side note, I used MEK to clean the faying surfaces, but switched to acetone to remove the excess Proseal, to try and preserve my MEK for more important tasks; I can no longer buy MEK locally. (Time for a Vegas run, anybody up for Craps?)
 
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A different perspective........

I also have some concerns about the use of tank dimple dies, but in my opinion, by installing the ribs and then waiting to rivet, you just moved the thick build-up of sealant from between the rivet and skin, to between the skin and the rib.

The squeeze force of a cleco is much lower than what is exerted when setting a rivet.
The sealant is very viscous and doesn't easily squeeze out from between the rib and skin.

I am pretty sure that just installing clecos and then letting the sealant cure before riveting leaves a much thicker layer of sealant between the rib and the skin. Far less desirable than the result attained if riveted wet, in my opinion.
 
Fuel Tanks: Stop the Madness, I am Tired of Learning

Fuel tanks are done, Yippee Ki Ya!


This last week has been fun learning how to play with ProSeal. The baffles and support brackets went on without much trouble.


For those of you building a RV9, it is important to note that the baffle doesn't naturally want to sit properly. The top and bottom skins are designed to not sit perpendicular to the back of the baffle. So when the baffle is dropped in, it has to be forced to align with the internal ribs. Once the baffle was set down on the ribs, I pushed the baffle into alignment and pressed in a -4 rivet thru the baffle into the ribs. This kept the baffle lined up while I inserted the gazillion silver clecos for the top and bottom row of -3 rivets, and clecos for the rest of -4 rivets for the baffle to ribs, without the brackets.


For the -3 clecos. I pushed in a -3 rivet every 10th hole to line up the skin and baffle before clecoing. Once all the clecos were inserted, I gently squeezed between each -3 rivet location with a Vise Grip welding pliers to squeeze out any excess Proseal.


I started riveting the -3's at the middle of the tank. I found I had to take the countersink (with a countersink stop) and touch up each hole before inserting the rivet; otherwise the heads were not always flush to the skin.


For the baffle to rib to bracket rivets, the pop rivets went in smoothly. I made sure I set the -3 and -4 rivets in one seating so the Proseal didn't have a chance to harden.


The sender, pickup and drain went in as per plans.


I am now in the waiting period when I am ignorant and happy, thinking the tanks are done and won't leak. Here is my leak check setup using the manometer method. I am expecting I can blow in the tubes enough to pressurize them to 27" of water. I am holding my breath hoping they won't leak.
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Fuel Tanks- Didnt Hold My Breath Long Enough

Last report, I was holding my breath the fuel tanks would not leak.

Like all good learning experiences, my tanks leaked; both of them, mainly from the rear seam.

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The one tank leaked from the seam near the fuel sender and access hole. This was easy enough to fix by removing the access panel and adding more goop.

The tank in the picture leaked from the top seam near the middle, in 2 places. Ugh.

There were many options I found on-line to fix this:
1) use Loctite adhesive designed for just such a repair.
2) ignore it and hope it goes away.
3) cut a hole in the baffle, add more sealant and then use a new access plate to cover over hole.
4) use the really thin Proseal that is brushable, pour it in the tank and slosh it along the seam.
5) make a funky applicator with a syringe and tubing; using a USB camera, and add some more Proseal to the seam thru the filler neck or the sender access panel.

Of course, being the expert builder that I am, I did none of the above.

I decided to use option 6), which is not listed above. If that didnt work, use option 3.

Option 6) was to drill out the baffle rivets in the offending area, wrap a towel around the vacuum cleaner nozzle and tape it to the fuel filler spout. With the manometer hooked up, turn on the suction and leave the fuel sender screws out to avoid over pressurizing the tank (wouldn't this be under pressurizing?). Add some Proseal to the seam, and gently open the seam up by gently flexing the tank skin. To my surprise, the sealant sucked itself into the gap. I used a heat gun to gently heat the tank skin to help the Proseal flow into the cracks. The whole time the tank was under 27" of vacuum.

After resetting the rivets, I let the tank sit for a day. I started the pressure test tonight, and the leak check using soap bubbles showed no leakage. Normally I would say done, but I plan to let it sit over night just to make sure.
 
Nice work. If you really want a good test, fill it with 100LL. Fuel will find leaks that air and bubbles wont.
 
One line, one month

I was trying to get at least one page of instructions done per month.
Got the fuel tanks done in two months and that was about two pages of instructions.
Than I ran into the next step:" Deburr, Dimple (prime) main skins"
Really simple sentence, but took me a month.:)

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But this is summer and I am distracted. Here is my typical view during my Saturday morning runs.
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Hard to get into build during the beautiful summer days. But I am making progress, skins are done and am working on countersinking the spar to accept the skins.

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I never installed the flush rivets for the ribs that go under the tank skins, so am doing that now. I wish I would have done this when the ribs were riveted to the spars, and before the skins were matched drilled. So now I have to c-sink the ribs holes under the tank to flush, and the ones for the skin to 0.007" deeper per the plans. I will probably squeeze these rivets right after I dab primer on all the spar c-sink holes; this primer may not be required, but I am going to do it anyway, at least for the main spar.
Working on stall warning now. And hope to get the top main skins on before the end of August; although the beach looks mighty inviting.......
 
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