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  #1  
Old 10-01-2015, 08:57 PM
pilot28906 pilot28906 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Murphy, NC
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Default Tip Up Flip Over?

After reading the post about "sweet escape's" flip over (good to hear you two are OK) I would like to know if there is anyone who has been in a flip over with a tipper that would share the outcome? I am building a tail dragger with tipper and am a little concerned about the roll bar in the back. Will it keep the canopy from colapsing?
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  #2  
Old 10-01-2015, 09:08 PM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
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You can figure the canopy will shatter but the roll bar will hold up, based on the pictures I have seen of such things.

It is kind of an question if it is better have the roll bar right behind your head or in front of you. Some time back, someone posted a picture on this forum with a line drawn between the slider's roll bar and the top of the VS and a tip up with the line drawn from its roll bar to the top of the VS. In that diagram, the slider had more head room; however, I'm not sure that is a true representation of what will happen if you go over.

I'm sure someone else will comment on this.
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  #3  
Old 10-01-2015, 10:13 PM
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Mel Mel is online now
 
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Had a close friend flip his RV-6 tip-up. The roll bar, being almost exactly over his head gave great protection. He was able to break the canopy and slide out within seconds.
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  #4  
Old 10-01-2015, 10:20 PM
rv7charlie rv7charlie is online now
 
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Don't know if it will help your concerns, but given the track record of the trike 2 seaters off airport, you're probably less at risk in your taildragger (assuming reasonable taildragger skills).

Charlie
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  #5  
Old 10-02-2015, 05:44 AM
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curtis curtis is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rv7charlie View Post
Don't know if it will help your concerns, but given the track record of the trike 2 seaters off airport, you're probably less at risk in your taildragger (assuming reasonable taildragger skills).

Charlie
Most all of the reports I have ever read ALL RVs (tailwheel or nose wheel) that land off airport will end up on their back.
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  #6  
Old 10-02-2015, 06:54 AM
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sprucemoose sprucemoose is offline
 
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In 2013 a local RV-6 tip-up guy made an off airport landing near here, and ended up on his back. The roll bar held up just fine and protected the pilot until help arrived and lifted the plane up to assist him with egress (he was about 80 and not terribly nimble.) Last I heard the airplane was bought by a well-known RV build outfit our west and was repaired.

As a tip-up builder/ flyer myself, I've studied this and thought long and hard about it. Bottom line is that I'm perfectly comfortable with the security provided by the tip-up roll bar. I think those who believe that the slider to be superior is this regard are deluding themselves, particularly when they think they can simply slide the canopy back in a rollover situation.

I also carry a small backpacking axe for emergency egress, and if push comes to shove, aluminum (tip-up) chops easier than 4130 (slider.)
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  #7  
Old 10-02-2015, 09:22 AM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curtis View Post
Most all of the reports I have ever read ALL RVs (tailwheel or nose wheel) that land off airport will end up on their back.
I agree.

The main wheels on a tail dragger are even further back than the nose wheel on a trigear (closer to the C.G.)

If the ground is soft or there is vegetation tall enough to grab the gear, going over is highly likely.
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  #8  
Old 10-02-2015, 10:31 AM
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Snowflake Snowflake is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
The main wheels on a tail dragger are even further back than the nose wheel on a trigear (closer to the C.G.)
While this is true, the main gear on a TD also deflects up and back when compressed, offering compliance and energy absorbtion while not tending to "dig in". The nosegear on a NW deflects back and down, digging further into the ground.

So as soon as a nosewheel comes down on rough/soft/uneven ground, it's going to be digging in, while on a tailwheel aircraft you will likely bleed off some speed decelerating before anything really grabs.

Of course, everything will depend on the stackup of a lot of factors in any off-airport situation... The third wheel placement will only be one of those factors, and I believe the TW has a slight edge in that regard.
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  #9  
Old 10-02-2015, 11:16 PM
F1R F1R is offline
 
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Default Off airport is not the problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by curtis View Post
Most all of the reports I have ever read ALL RVs (tailwheel or nose wheel) that land off airport will end up on their back.
Vlad would respectfully disagree with you. Likely a few hundred off airport landings in his 9A and it's still a very useable 9A.

RV's and other trike and TW AC can be landed off airport, however, any landing surface that is too soft will very often result in a flip over.

The small 5.00 x5" main wheels require a firm enough surface to roll. A dry pasture, a dirt or gravel road would provide a firm enough surface for a landing roll.

Vlad has even been known to use wet sand to land on and take off from.

On the flip side my neighbour landed his cub in my field one night, and almost flipped. The field was just seeded and very soft, even 6.00 tires sunk in and produced more drag than he was expecting.

Last edited by F1R : 10-02-2015 at 11:49 PM.
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  #10  
Old 10-02-2015, 11:38 PM
F1R F1R is offline
 
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Default AIR BAG on Top

A large enough air bag mounted on the top of the firewall and or on top of the vertical stab. that fired when the top of the V STAB impacted might provide better impact protection and/or better egress after the event. You sure would not want any deployment in flight. Perhaps a manual fired air bag or bags might be a better option.
Possibly a nose gear failure could fire the bags on top.

Last edited by F1R : 10-02-2015 at 11:47 PM.
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