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  #41  
Old 11-09-2017, 12:16 AM
Captain Avgas Captain Avgas is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanB View Post
Bob, I agree completely, but what I think the worry for most Current 4 builders is that if you donít have all 4 subkits, you have now been given just over a month to come up with the cash to get whatever is outstanding, and if you canít weíll then your 4 is going to become a very expensive toy.
The RV4 was effectively rendered obsolete when the RV8 was introduced in 1995. In other words virtually all ongoing RV4 builders have had at least 22 years to buy all their kits.
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  #42  
Old 11-09-2017, 01:57 AM
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n82rb n82rb is offline
 
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I think one of the things that worries me the most is the wording of the release. Like prices significantly increase, spares MAY be available, and delivery times of two years. If I hit a bird and need a couple of wing ribs that are now 20 bucks and they go to 200 bucks and it takes two years to get them, it renders my plane un-repairable. Or someone that just started the wings, buys the other kits now but messes up a former in the fuse two years down the road, and can't get a new one. If find the release lacking in details as to what over 4000 owners might be facing. I don't have a problem with long lead times for a new kit, or even discontinuing a kit, but not being able to get parts that are hard to make, such as hydro formed parts and heat treated parts, is a bit scary.

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  #43  
Old 11-09-2017, 04:25 AM
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snopercod snopercod is offline
 
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Being a Lancair builder, I'd like to add a different perspective. When Lance started selling the model 235 kits in the late eighties, they were really inexpensive. My kit cost only $15,975 (not including engine, panel, interior, and paint). In retrospect, it's clear that Lance grossly underestimated the costs of "after-care": engineering updates, customer service and spare parts (and probably liability insurance). Lance designed some great airplanes but (IMHO), was a poor businessman. The company continued to support the original customers for almost 30 years, but they were hemorrhaging money at the end and finally had to give it up.

All I am saying is that it's important to all RVers that the company stay in business. If Vans has to raise prices on certain older designs in order to cover their costs, then I see that as reasonable and necessary.

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  #44  
Old 11-09-2017, 06:07 AM
-goose -goose is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n82rb View Post
I think one of the things that worries me the most is the wording of the release. Like prices significantly increase, spares MAY be available, and delivery times of two years. If I hit a bird and need a couple of wing ribs that are now 20 bucks and they go to 200 bucks and it takes two years to get them, it renders my plane un-repairable. Or someone that just started the wings, buys the other kits now but messes up a former in the fuse two years down the road, and can't get a new one. If find the release lacking in details as to what over 4000 owners might be facing. I don't have a problem with long lead times for a new kit, or even discontinuing a kit, but not being able to get parts that are hard to make, such as hydro formed parts and heat treated parts, is a bit scary.

Bob burns
t

Bob I don't think it's too much of a concern - the skills to hand make these parts are easily acquired should it ever come to that, or it would be easy enough to find someone else who could do them. You won't be tied to the factory if repairs are ever needed.
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  #45  
Old 11-09-2017, 06:58 AM
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This is one of those topics that immediately fell victim to "Forum Fever".

Nowhere does it say anything was being discontinued, if anything, it was a letter of ongoing commitment but just putting those models on notice that after many decades it's time to wind them down.

How long should Vans support a kit? What is reasonable? I think I'll start a separate vote thread on that.
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  #46  
Old 11-09-2017, 07:10 AM
WingsOnWheels WingsOnWheels is offline
 
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I can't speak to the 3, but for the -4 and 6, there is not a single part that you cannot fab yourself. All the info is in the plans, materials, heat-treat, dimensions. Parts like gear legs would be expensive, but a bird strike? You can make a couple ribs faster than the current shipping time from Vans. A piece of MDF, a jigsaw, ruler, mallet, and you are in business. Yes, it would be more work, but if the lead time turned into months, then you have time. Except for the ribs and bulkheads, most everything is flat or a couple straight bends. I'm not too concerned. The only part that sucks is the end of -3 kits for the most part.
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  #47  
Old 11-09-2017, 07:24 AM
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Mark Dickens Mark Dickens is offline
 
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It seems that some want to conflate "support" with "timing". My only issue is timing. Of course, you can't support a product forever, but to put builders in a corner with less than two months notice? If they had said that the price increases (undefined, but "significant") were effective a year from now or even July 1, 2018, I'd completely support that. That gives a reasonable amount of time to plan the remaining build, cash flow, etc.
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  #48  
Old 11-09-2017, 07:36 AM
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bkervaski bkervaski is offline
 
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Quote:
to put builders in a corner with less than two months notice
If they had done that with the modern kits (7-14) then I would agree, but the kits they put on notice were 30+ years old:

1971 RV-3 (46 years)
1980 RV-4 (37 years)
1986 RV-6 (31 years)

It's a gift of reassurance that they issued a statement of continuing commitment to these kits.
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Last edited by bkervaski : 11-09-2017 at 07:41 AM.
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  #49  
Old 11-09-2017, 07:37 AM
Canadian_JOY Canadian_JOY is offline
 
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Last year I was essentially told by insurers to "look elsewhere" for insurance for my plans-built homebuilt airplane. Their rationale was that lack of "factory" support for parts would make ANY incident that bent the airplane a write-off event.

From reading all the posts in this thread I get the feeling the -3 and -4 builders/owners are a far cry from being in this predicament. Having some or all parts available, albeit perhaps at increased price and lead times, keeps the designs alive and viable.
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  #50  
Old 11-09-2017, 07:47 AM
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bkervaski bkervaski is offline
 
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Quote:
Their rationale was that lack of "factory" support for parts would make ANY incident that bent the airplane a write-off event.
Yea, I can see that rationale for plans-built.

There are a lot of RV-6's out there that need insurance, somebody would step up.

Anybody in the insurance industry have an opinion?
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