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  #31  
Old 09-10-2018, 05:53 PM
BoilermakerRV's Avatar
BoilermakerRV BoilermakerRV is online now
 
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Location: Danville, IN (West of Indy)
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Default On the Panel

Quote:
Originally Posted by TShort View Post
Anyone have the TO/GA button on the stick?

I'm considering this idea as I finalize the upgraded panel.
I'm planning to put mine on the panel just above the throttle, for two reasons:
1) It seems natural to just hit the button as you advance the throttle.
2) I need a double pull switch for my GTN and G3X discrete inputs.
If you don't need the GTN input, you could use the single pull switch on the stick. Otherwise, you may have to add in a relay or something to separate the two discrete signals.
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  #32  
Old 09-10-2018, 06:29 PM
raabs raabs is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Central Florida
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Default

Currently working on a panel w SteinAir. The TO/GA on the stick goes directly to the GMC 507 AP now and doesn't use a discrete. I need to check/ensure it also triggers G3X and GTN, but I think it may. Aparrently w the GMC 307, it had to use discretes.
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  #33  
Old 09-10-2018, 06:33 PM
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BoilermakerRV BoilermakerRV is online now
 
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Default GMC/G3X

Quote:
Originally Posted by raabs View Post
Currently working on a panel w SteinAir. The TO/GA goes directly to the GMC 507 AP now and doesn't use a discrete. I need to check/ensure it also triggers G3X and GTN, but I think it may.
You are correct in that it goes to the GMC 507. And that is what I intended by G3X. I think of the whole system as a the "G3X". I still think the GTN needs it's own TO/GA input. Happy to be corrected.
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  #34  
Old 09-11-2018, 12:26 AM
StressedOut StressedOut is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Fullerton, CA
Posts: 122
Default All things are inteconnected, grasshopper

I'm so glad this thread popped up. I'm very early in the build process, but I started to think about my avionics, switchology and stick buttons. These things are all intertwined and need to be considered in relation to each other. I've got a couple of posts on my construction log dealing with these things. These are just the beginning of my thoughts and there is more to come. I use MyKitLog for a construction log and it doesn't give you a lot of space to capture your thoughts. That's not necessarily a bad thing because it forces you to be brief and to the point.

Basically, I wanted to write down the criteria for joystick buttons and the logic for choosing to include or exclude them. Having things in writing forces one to think through the reasons why you should or should not put a function in a particular place. This gives you time to realize that what seems to be a good idea initially really isn't when you think about it for a bit. For the record, I feel that a starter button on the joystick is a really, really bad idea.

Panel design
Joystick switch philosophy

There's a saying at work. "Make functions earn their place on the panel or control." I'm a detail oriented person, so an exercise like this just makes sense.

This same procedure is necessary for switches as well. For example, is it really a good idea to put the avionics master switch right next to the fuel pump switch? (hint: no!) That'll be my next avionics post when I get time.

Once I'm reasonably satisfied with the logic for the entire system, I'll go to Kinko's and get a full scale print of the panel, paste it to some cardboard and go through operational flows to help build checklists and to see if there's any further room for improvement.

I wanted to get an early start on this process so I can lay the initial groundwork and let it marinate in the back on my brain for a while. I'll revisit it from time to time throughout the build and tweak it as required. When it comes time to commit to the avionics I'll have a solid plan in place when I discuss with whoever I choose to build my panel (probably Steinair).

Unnecessary P.S.: My 100th post!
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Last edited by StressedOut : 09-11-2018 at 12:41 AM.
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  #35  
Old 09-11-2018, 05:33 AM
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http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...&highlight=ptt
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  #36  
Old 09-11-2018, 07:37 AM
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Ed_Wischmeyer Ed_Wischmeyer is offline
 
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Another point about what to (not) put on the switch is don't put anything "dangerous" on the stick where inadvertent activation or de-activation would be an issue.

Flaps on the stick? Only if you need to activate them promptly, like dumping flaps after landing. If I had that on my RV-8, I'd use it. I would not have it on the RV-9A.

Boost pump on the stick? Nope. Not needed in a hurry nor frequently, the two major criteria for what goes on the stick. And you'd need a light somewhere to tell if it was on, most likely. Quiet dark cockpit philosophy says normal operation is lights off. I would not put boost pump on the stick.

Human factors is, in a way, like edge distance specifications on rivets. Things aren't guaranteed to cause trouble immediately if you make up your own rules...

Ed

Ed
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  #37  
Old 09-11-2018, 09:11 AM
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airguy airguy is offline
 
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Location: Garden City, Tx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed_Wischmeyer View Post
Flaps on the stick? Only if you need to activate them promptly, like dumping flaps after landing. If I had that on my RV-8, I'd use it. I would not have it on the RV-9A.
Ed
That's the only one I might argue about, and even then it's dealers choice. I have trim, PTT, AP disconnect, and flaps up/down on my stick in the 9A. I have the flap positioner on my plane so I can bump the momentary flaps switch down and it will go to the next position, or snap it up and they will suck all the way up and stay. I use this on landing to dump flaps after touchdown, and also to dump them on climbout from an IFR missed approach, which I typically do at 90 knots and 10 degrees to stabilize. I really like having the flight functions available without moving my hands from the stick/throttle or eyes from the runway during the final approach.

To each their own, that's why we do these things.
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  #38  
Old 09-11-2018, 02:41 PM
StressedOut StressedOut is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed_Wischmeyer View Post
Another point about what to (not) put on the switch is don't put anything "dangerous" on the stick where inadvertent activation or de-activation would be an issue.

Flaps on the stick? Only if you need to activate them promptly, like dumping flaps after landing. If I had that on my RV-8, I'd use it. I would not have it on the RV-9A.

Boost pump on the stick? Nope. Not needed in a hurry nor frequently, the two major criteria for what goes on the stick. And you'd need a light somewhere to tell if it was on, most likely. Quiet dark cockpit philosophy says normal operation is lights off. I would not put boost pump on the stick.

Human factors is, in a way, like edge distance specifications on rivets. Things aren't guaranteed to cause trouble immediately if you make up your own rules...

Ed

Ed
Ed I just read your post in the thread from post 35 above and it perfectly captures and expands on my meager attempt to lay down a selection criteria for functions on the joystick. I'm going to steal it for my own purposes!

Not to hijack this thread (ok maybe for a couple of posts) what did you do at Boeing? I'm in Fleet Support doing structural repairs on the 777X.
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Art Jackson
RV-14A Kit#140433, N393AJ Reserved
Completed: Vertical Stab/Horizontal Stab
Scrapped: Rudder
Working on: Empennage (Elevator)
Construction log - mykitlog.com/ajackson
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Pet peeve: "Lose" is the opposite of "find". "Loose" means "not tight".
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  #39  
Old 09-18-2018, 09:43 PM
Tom @ N269CP Tom @ N269CP is offline
 
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Location: Green Cove Springs, FL
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed_Wischmeyer View Post
Another point about what to (not) put on the switch is don't put anything "dangerous" on the stick where inadvertent activation or de-activation would be an issue.

Flaps on the stick? Only if you need to activate them promptly, like dumping flaps after landing. If I had that on my RV-8, I'd use it. I would not have it on the RV-9A.

Boost pump on the stick? Nope. Not needed in a hurry nor frequently, the two major criteria for what goes on the stick. And you'd need a light somewhere to tell if it was on, most likely. Quiet dark cockpit philosophy says normal operation is lights off. I would not put boost pump on the stick.

Human factors is, in a way, like edge distance specifications on rivets. Things aren't guaranteed to cause trouble immediately if you make up your own rules...

Ed

Ed
My rationale for putting the boost pump on the stick is that I use it during every takeoff and landing. This allows me to execute every take off, approach and landing with HOTAS the entire time I'm in the pattern.

The original cockpit layout (by the original builder) had the boost pump switch on the right-hand side switch panel, so I had to switch hands on the stick to turn it on and off....not the best layout by any means. It needed to be moved and putting it on the stick supports my HOTAS philosophy.
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  #40  
Old 09-19-2018, 12:54 AM
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RV7A Flyer RV7A Flyer is offline
 
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Default

OK, I'll weigh in here...

PTT
Trim (pitch and roll)
AP disconnect/CWS (Dynon uses the same button for both...hold 2s to engage CWS, momentary for AP D/D)
Smoke

NOT on the stick:
Starter - much too dangerous IMO
Boost pump - turned on or off so far before or after landing or take-off that it's not necessary on the stick
COMM functions - used infrequently and better to tune and swap at the same time; switching between Com1 and Com2 is even more infrequent
Flaps - avoid inadvertent triggering; flaps toggle is conveniently located by the throttle quadrant

This has worked very well for me...KISS.

Panel switchology is a separate discussion
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