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Countersunk too deep...

Hey Brian

I don't know how thick the material is, but it may have a bearing on if it's too deep or not. I would certainly run it by Vans & see what they have to say.

Also, be sure to make a couple of test runs on some scrap with the countersink cage before you do the part. It may save you some grief.

Good luck

Sam
 
yes, I was using a cage but obviously screwed something up.... I have an email into VANS. I cant quite tell from reading ahead why the instructions call for countersinking here (page 8-2, step 5), but hopefully it wasn't a $75 mistake! Thanks for the replies.
 
Countersink

Definately too deep for a rivet but often deep is relative to the part nesting in the countersink and location. Refer to Vans Mil-spec document for countersink dimensions and hopefully they will have good news for you tomorrow.
 
Buy a new part and get a fresh start. Use the spar for test holes from now on before you start countersinking other critical areas. I always did a test on a spare piece to make sure the size and depth was correct before proceeding. Countersinking and dimpling are a fundamental skill in assembling an aluminum airframe and you'll have piece of mind when done correctly.

Cheers, Hans
 
Thanks for all of the feedback. I checked the mil-spec and it is definately too big.

Tom,

Thankfully its a 20 minute drive to Vans. Will wait to hear fron Vans, but expecting an early afternoon trip tomorrow.
 
Definitely too deep

I made the same mistake on my flap spars. After I made the mistake I found Section 5.5 where Van's recommends 7 'clicks' past flush when countersinking to accept a skin dimple. That corresponds to .007 past flush which is barely perceptible and a lot less than you think you need but it works.

I used my caliper to measure a test piece to set my csink cage then csunk the flap spars. Until I got comfortable I think I measured everyone. Then I measured every 5th one or so. :)

Proper depth
jjPOhu0wwHztJmqPw3WyzQbIkiVZBiaTcb9naT0hQ0twVxA2LaOO9SrVe7FSA3CGXgHh7Zg7-QaHH95taDAf60xCF-kyDY9A7kVCU0sn9qkAKsPx-TnsGsNGRDX0zIS-U425J_FJ_8Sb4i4BgSSJwyIyYhaGpeSPApis_ySmY5ly4_6QP96_kHp9SEYNeFdSQF0ksi4FFQaCv6sBihX3jV6SpeYSnnNQsCBiri-4-XaeBmWi8oxFzmMsMHkW8IKJgkj-dmxlZckQBVruD5f10bJxON8SxPV1AMEsXzGPLeZ0lJCIXxXvTVNlLisYownfAe5KbkZeKtwalx1Q-UwhGERRNoybjcQKK4dzXaLZqawphQAW9ITAIzsSk5xKeTJVcMN9VWUI-rbDhZGmDPwZQdSSn3nVUKzkq-cUVn-0MOjSLTPBFDrO1WRaMXz1xVIodIhhzZpniWzmWO_ATvVZxm0Fmq-08zPcHHXJV-o01UFVJLUc8aDW7oX32W4iXxXvy_-pldBUYCg8PQ9Qq3Lph6WxcdCW2leZanrTFCJUkIta9Yzymcr4ng33bauqGxrz3MitUEj2-pmuqhiypk0rFV8msG61TX4JSjGMZ-Au2tSv-s3F9oq9R_ePb9d-Q_tdXau3eWwQdXYQX5q3ApJmcIsFfckrasMyIg=w600-no



Picture of one too deep
r8Mteo6OIcJdsGaGJejcNrmznudH9ODNMDigHHI4reEg4zP0D6Scrr-tl-I_Z_eRfGWETvbtAJDQbBmSs-mxlA1HFAdCxww4QKyA2eLILAXifgFP1HkYG5oOPpBWC5yvZJ0Tug-XWj30lyoMGWiSMYMzkDhLxEJUyixasK5oK1dpsZ7MLeoJpr6MyWS2Fa36f-IfxxYIbBgESGjSLeChmhfqNe8WaX-VY9qayqPkBHqbCVdWwQ1QV1XO7QXhh5oR4oUDtN67spnu2nXfGrL2Bi108p43fE6rDH1g4STT0BnVrzj6tGmbrT5mbh0fnmdmkct8Xbf3CaMQLucZ_WF2rBk6V3Y6zzZunGjkBml1_E7lyvUTmc_OLHVcARIiQ6axYGpDhCxPzPXAbZrbi3rA_59tOZov622yrSeO0YS503gKeTUY3kLHcbiLEVViFR9w0rrRqcYglngUuL0jON6nkAGYFaqEpzSOCShCh-heScli7vEls7GP7WwWTASh4DMM--wlQXz-TOxa_Dmj_wc5WTBB74iVMLg0OE3-yeBUBtbejkJGFeYcW5XuWNkNrBr19LElC7pzX-r4QvEupKFRRzNnPi-ibeWikHXZkyq3i4Z3TPX4D93tK5QZJcOHxJDt4W3Giu47huW7kh34NpC_u2A37nXcn1T47A=w600-no
 
Last edited:
yes, I was using a cage but obviously screwed something up.... I have an email into VANS. I cant quite tell from reading ahead why the instructions call for countersinking here (page 8-2, step 5), but hopefully it wasn't a $75 mistake! Thanks for the replies.

One thing I found with the cage that I have is that if the retaining ring comes loose, even though it's not jumping teeth, it will cut considerably deeper. Now I make sure every few times to check that ring and make sure it hasn't come loose.
 
One thing I found with the cage that I have is that if the retaining ring comes loose, even though it's not jumping teeth, it will cut considerably deeper. Now I make sure every few times to check that ring and make sure it hasn't come loose.

I put gaffer's tape on the ring.....
 
I'd replace it.

1. It's just too deep.
2. Every time I buy a new part (and I have bought several) the resulting pain I experience makes me that much more careful the next time around and on future parts. So I consider it an investment of sorts, hah.
3. Souvenir and a good tool to use in the future to show people what not to do!
4. Scrap for other purposes like testing your countersink cage, drilling holes, etc. etc.
5. We don't have to pay shipping. :)

greg
 
We don't have to pay shipping.

Nice!

Won't be the last part you replace, that's for sure, just part of it. And the re-orders get less frequent as your skills improve.
 
I've ordered a "few" replacement parts. I was like you in the beginning but now I don't think twice. It's part of the process. You make mistakes you fix them and move on. Hopefully you become more careful and read the plan details more and you will make less mistakes. Most of the parts are actually pretty cheap to replace.
 
You may be able to salvage this by putting new rivets/holes on either side of the enlarged hole. Van's might be the best authority here to determine the feasibility of this approach.
 
countersink cages

Spend $30 on an extra one. Set one for #30 and one for #40 and no more testing.

Eddy
 
Ditto, and one further....

Spend $30 on an extra one. Set one for #30 and one for #40 and no more testing.

I did that very thing as well, but now I want to go even further and get yet another one or two more, because I repeatedly need a #40 stop that is set to "flush" and another one that is set to Vans recommended .007 deeper for dimple-to-counter-sink situations for skins and such. Call me lazy, but that would keep me from mis-adjusting the tool to .006 or .008 or worse, if I had two #40 countersinks, with each one set to the proper depths for either condition.

But then I would probably need to remember which stop contains which depth, and then which gun has which stop in it, and so on. :) As long as you label the stops properly, it might not be confusing, but I am old, so there are no guarantees!
 
Countersink cage

I did that very thing as well, but now I want to go even further and get yet another one or two more, because I repeatedly need a #40 stop that is set to "flush" and another one that is set to Vans recommended .007 deeper for dimple-to-counter-sink situations for skins and such. Call me lazy, but that would keep me from mis-adjusting the tool to .006 or .008 or worse, if I had two #40 countersinks, with each one set to the proper depths for either condition.

But then I would probably need to remember which stop contains which depth, and then which gun has which stop in it, and so on. :) As long as you label the stops properly, it might not be confusing, but I am old, so there are no guarantees!

Buy as many as you like but never trust the setting. Always test before use.
 
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