Van's Air Force
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RV7A pattern speed
- Thread starter vgb
- Start date
Not sure if it carries over, but in my 6A I drop the first 10 degrees of flaps abeam the numbers at 99. Turn base and drop to 20% at 90, make my turn to final at 80 and drop full flaps. Over the fence at 80 and the numbers at 75.
From what I have read, that is fast, but it?s what works for me.
From what I have read, that is fast, but it?s what works for me.
PaulvS
Well Known Member
A bit hot for final
I would think more like 65 Kts on final, in normal wind conditions.
Pattern could be faster though, I was taught 120 Kts down wind, slowing to 80 Kts for the turn to base.
That is with FP prop, since there is not the braking effect that you would get with a CSU prop.
I would think more like 65 Kts on final, in normal wind conditions.
Pattern could be faster though, I was taught 120 Kts down wind, slowing to 80 Kts for the turn to base.
That is with FP prop, since there is not the braking effect that you would get with a CSU prop.
Ed_Wischmeyer
Well Known Member
There is no one speed for landing an airplane.
If you really want to be in command of your plane, you should be able to land it with no flaps, half and full flaps, and you should know preferred speeds for each. If your approach speed is too slow, the risks are minimal time to flare and high sink rate. If your approach speed is too high, you can float forever, possibly overcontrol in the flare and maybe increase your brake wear. And we've not even talked crosswinds...
You should be able to fly a variety of speeds to fit in with slower and faster traffic, for starters. Also, dodging a buzzard in the pattern can upset your speed profile, so be able to handle the variations.
There's lots of different styles of traffic patterns, and some people will even tell you that their's is right and everybody else's is wrong. Learn to fly all the different styles, and then choose the one that you like and that fits in with each particular airport at the conditions present at that time.
If you really want to be in command of your plane, you should be able to land it with no flaps, half and full flaps, and you should know preferred speeds for each. If your approach speed is too slow, the risks are minimal time to flare and high sink rate. If your approach speed is too high, you can float forever, possibly overcontrol in the flare and maybe increase your brake wear. And we've not even talked crosswinds...
You should be able to fly a variety of speeds to fit in with slower and faster traffic, for starters. Also, dodging a buzzard in the pattern can upset your speed profile, so be able to handle the variations.
There's lots of different styles of traffic patterns, and some people will even tell you that their's is right and everybody else's is wrong. Learn to fly all the different styles, and then choose the one that you like and that fits in with each particular airport at the conditions present at that time.
I couldn't agree more. I think this is the perfect approach.
Never really thought about it this way, but it's pretty much what I do.
rzbill
Well Known Member
Well..... I posted about going to KGMU for lunch with my bride a few weeks ago. I omitted the return to KAVL which included a full power decending final approach that was tickling red line in order to create spacing for jet traffic rather than be resequenced on a very busy day. This included last minute killing the speed to allow a departure and then intentionally flying down the runway a few feet off the ground because all but 2 taxiways are shut for construction and it helped the tower for me to get clear of the runway quickly.
The point is to be able to use the speed necessary to do the job.
The wide speed regime of the RV is fantastic.
The point is to be able to use the speed necessary to do the job.
The wide speed regime of the RV is fantastic.
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I agree that you need to be able to fly all types of scenarios, but 90+% of the time I fly a 100 knot pattern, pull power back abeam the numbers, drop 15 degrees of flaps, let speed drop to 80 for the turn to base and base leg, fly 70 knot final, then pull all power over the threshold, touching down around 65 or below.
NewbRVator
Well Known Member
Exactly same for me in a FP 6A. 75 knots is too slow for the pattern except short final imho.
Additionally I also fly a different plane as well that has a vastly different pattern profile so I pay attention to the numbers and I would rather be fast and high then low and slow.
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Ed_Wischmeyer
Well Known Member
When I had my RV-8, I typically flew the pattern at 80 MPH, 70 KT.
If winds were reasonable, I would challenge myself to do a wheel landing without bouncing (RV-8 gear is much bouncier than other RVs), full flaps, power off. The -8 would drop like a brick, and when I flared just right and did a wheel landing without bouncing, I knew I was on top of my game.
If winds weren't conducive, I'd fly 80 MPH with power and full flaps.
In the -9A, even with the big, low wing, if you get down to 55 KT with full flaps, power off, you'll get into a high sink rate.
Always more to learn, always more to practice...
If winds were reasonable, I would challenge myself to do a wheel landing without bouncing (RV-8 gear is much bouncier than other RVs), full flaps, power off. The -8 would drop like a brick, and when I flared just right and did a wheel landing without bouncing, I knew I was on top of my game.
If winds weren't conducive, I'd fly 80 MPH with power and full flaps.
In the -9A, even with the big, low wing, if you get down to 55 KT with full flaps, power off, you'll get into a high sink rate.
Always more to learn, always more to practice...
I have a RV-7A with a 3-bladed Catto prop. I slow on downwind to 80 knots with 20 degrees of flaps. It takes about 1700 rpm on speed and level at pattern altitude. I go to full flaps off the 180 and slow to 70 knots on final. It takes about 1420 to 1450 rpm on final when on speed and on the visual glide slope. Any faster over the numbers and you are going to float down the runway with the fixed pitched prop.
This is how the military and the airlines fly the pattern. You slow on the downwind with flaps and a known power setting for the configuration and speed. Getting the same start off the 180 helps to fly a more consistent approach.
So as you fly from the 180 to final, you slow to your final approach speed, trim for that speed so you are set up for a stabilized final approach. Knowing what power usually works for a given configuration allows you to make small power adjustments as necessary, whether you are high or low. Once back on the visual glide slope, you reset the power setting to the one you already know will work. A stabilized approach will lead to those smooth landings we all are shooting for. Frank
This is how the military and the airlines fly the pattern. You slow on the downwind with flaps and a known power setting for the configuration and speed. Getting the same start off the 180 helps to fly a more consistent approach.
So as you fly from the 180 to final, you slow to your final approach speed, trim for that speed so you are set up for a stabilized final approach. Knowing what power usually works for a given configuration allows you to make small power adjustments as necessary, whether you are high or low. Once back on the visual glide slope, you reset the power setting to the one you already know will work. A stabilized approach will lead to those smooth landings we all are shooting for. Frank
What?s your stall speed clean? With one notch flaps? Full flaps?
If you don?t know the exact stall speeds, find out through flight testing. Then multiply them by 1.3 for approach speed. This is 1.3VSO or VREF. For short field I sometimes lower the margin to 1.23VSO which is something I did in the USAF landing turboprops on short dirt strips.
If you don?t know the exact stall speeds, find out through flight testing. Then multiply them by 1.3 for approach speed. This is 1.3VSO or VREF. For short field I sometimes lower the margin to 1.23VSO which is something I did in the USAF landing turboprops on short dirt strips.
190kts descending crosswind at 23/23, reduce to 11" at pattern altitude, maintain on downwind, you will reduce to around flap speed for a medium base leg, flap out, aim for 75kt to 1/2 mile, back to 70kts, 60kts over the hedge......squeek....
I think when one flies a new airplane, good speed recommendations (fly the numbers) are very useful. after a while and many landings, this becomes second nature, and then it no longer matters. one intuitively understands the effects of control surfaces and power by just looking outside and correcting as desired.
NewbRVator
Well Known Member
Agreed and granted I am referring to a 6A which is different than a 7A but if I am flying a published approach IFR I use 100 to 110 kts as that is the speed the plane is settled and stable on glideslope or level flight. No need to be slower until final. YMMV.
6A with O360 and fixed pitch.
From cruise I enter the zone reducing to 1700rpm, slow to 100kts in the cross or downwind entry, 10 degrees abeam the numbers, 20 degrees at 80 in crosswind, full flap on final for an approach of 70kts.
As practice for the real thing, I try to make every approach a short field approach (even though we have 8500 of pavement), so crossing the fence, I try to be at 65kts and chop the throttle at the threshold. This usually results in a squeeker of a landing and ready to turn off well below 1000' of runway without having to brake too hard.
From cruise I enter the zone reducing to 1700rpm, slow to 100kts in the cross or downwind entry, 10 degrees abeam the numbers, 20 degrees at 80 in crosswind, full flap on final for an approach of 70kts.
As practice for the real thing, I try to make every approach a short field approach (even though we have 8500 of pavement), so crossing the fence, I try to be at 65kts and chop the throttle at the threshold. This usually results in a squeeker of a landing and ready to turn off well below 1000' of runway without having to brake too hard.
