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Reversing rivet directions for inspection

Polar

Polar

Active Member
While assembling the HS on my 14 today I realized that in order for an inspector to see every shop head, I would need to willfully ignore the practice of putting the manufactured head on the thinner material. More specifically, where the ribs are riveted to the forward spar. To see the shop head once the skin is applied, the rivets will need to be reversed.

As I'm writing this, I'm realizing that an inspector will not be able to see the rivets that attach the skin to the nose ribs once the forward spar is installed. Are two inspections required, one before and one after installing the spar/rib assembly?

Thanks
 
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Polar said:
While assembling the HS on my 14 today I realized that in order for an inspector to see every shop head, I would need to willfully ignore the practice of putting the manufactured head on the thinner material. More specifically, where the ribs are riveted to the forward spar. To see the shop head once the skin is applied, the rivets will need to be reversed.

As I'm writing this, I'm realizing that an inspector will not be able to see the rivets that attach the skin to the nose ribs once the forward spar is installed. Are two inspections required, one before and one after installing the spar/rib assembly?

Thanks
Click to expand...

In my experience, the inspector is looking for the quality of workmanship. If he sees rows and rows of perfect riveting and can't see some rivets, you'll pass. Nevertheless, I always oriented the rivets in the direction that allowed me to drill them out easily if (ahem) necessary. Sometimes it was necessary to reverse a rivet to get the squeezer in place.

My final inspection on my HROC consisted of asking me if I had built the RV-9A sitting beside it..I said yes and we proceeded to paperwork.

Don't lose any sleep over it. Do your best and have your paperwork in order.

V
 
It has been my experience with MDRA that inspections need to be done before the spar is installed. It usually is determined by where most of your rivets will be visible. Part before spar or part after spar is riveted in. As far a two inspections go it will probably depend. If your visual rivets are average and better then probably your inspector will sign off without seeing all rivets. If many of your visible rivets are questionable then they may have a concern with the not visible rivets. I tend to be on the cautious side if I have a new inspector, but if it's an inspector I've had before and he knows my riveting skills (not saying they are good , but must be average) , I will progress farther and stop at the point where the most visible rivets can be seen for close up inspection.
 
Not in Canada so not sure if this would work but can you take pictures of the shop heads you are concerned with and show the inspector that if he asks?
 
As a DAR I would tell you that it is more important to follow best practices. Don't be concerned with fretting about what the inspector can see. A great BEST practice to use during the contruction is to have multiple Tech Counselor visits, document them (Tech Counselor responsibility), and show them to the Inspector.
Build the airplane according to the plans.

Vic
 
Thanks for all the advice, I'll focus on best practices and perhaps snap a few pics of the spots that might be impossible to see during the inspection.
 
Polar said:
Thanks for all the advice, I'll focus on best practices and perhaps snap a few pics of the spots that might be impossible to see during the inspection.
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There shouldn't be any rivets that can't be seen during the pre-cover inspection. If you have any, you've done too much. The idea is you stop before you close something up, so that may mean not riveting in both sides of a skin, or a spar. I know I was told to not close up my trim tab.
 
vic syracuse said:
A great BEST practice to use during the contruction is to have multiple Tech Counselor visits, document them (Tech Counselor responsibility), and show them to the Inspector.

Vic
Click to expand...

Vic, if you don't mind, can you elaborate on this? I've had a couple of Tech Counselor visits. The only documentation I have of them is a note in my build log, written by me. Should I be asking for some sort of sign off or document from the Counselor?

Thanks,
Logan
 
Logan said:
Vic, if you don't mind, can you elaborate on this? I've had a couple of Tech Counselor visits. The only documentation I have of them is a note in my build log, written by me. Should I be asking for some sort of sign off or document from the Counselor?

Thanks,
Logan
Click to expand...

As a Tech Counselor, you have to fill out a form and send to EAA to document the visit.

The original method was a form that the builder signed and got a copy. There is also an online process that only the Tech Counselor and EAA see. I only used that process once. I manually made a copy and sent it to the builder because I felt strongly that the builder needed to have a copy of my comments (Pro or Con).

I may be a little old fashion, but I prefer the hard copy route in this case. It clearly documents what the Tech Counselor and the builder talked about. If there are any discrepancies, then one of the parties won't sign the form.
 
Looking at the 14 plans on CD, I see two options:
1- Call your MDRA inspector & ask if inspection thru a lightening hole is sufficient, he could see the third outboard front rib shop heads this way & from this example imply what the quality of the second inboard rib would be.
2- leave the outboard front rib off till after inspection, similar inspection opportunity if inspector balks at looking thru outboard rib lightening hole.
You should strive to follow plans & best practices as much as possible & not compromise to appease inspectors, & push that point to them.

EAA Tech Counselors are volunteers who make themselves available to mentor or oversee homebuilt aircraft construction. You can check EAA.ORG for any near you. In Canada, EAA Tech Counselor visits only add to builder benefit by providing a 'second set of eyes' overview of builder progress & provide some build guidance where needed. These visits do not apply 'credit' towards the Canadian mandatory MD-RA inspections.
 
Logan said:
Vic, if you don't mind, can you elaborate on this? I've had a couple of Tech Counselor visits. The only documentation I have of them is a note in my build log, written by me. Should I be asking for some sort of sign off or document from the Counselor?

Thanks,
Logan
Click to expand...

Looks like Bob already answered the question. Yes, there is now an online form we can use, but you can get an emailed copy of it. A note in your builder log detailing the visit is great in lieu of that.

Vic
 
Logan said:
Thanks, Bob, Vic.

And sorry for thread drift...
Click to expand...

It's worth noting that the requirements are completely different in the US and Canada. I'm speaking specifically about the MDRA pre-cover inspection required in Canada - I don't know what the equivalent is in the States, or if there is one.
 
Ralph Inkster said:
Looking at the 14 plans on CD, I see two options:
1- Call your MDRA inspector & ask if inspection thru a lightening hole is sufficient, he could see the third outboard front rib shop heads this way & from this example imply what the quality of the second inboard rib would be.
2- leave the outboard front rib off till after inspection, similar inspection opportunity if inspector balks at looking thru outboard rib lightening hole.
You should strive to follow plans & best practices as much as possible & not compromise to appease inspectors, & push that point to them.

EAA Tech Counselors are volunteers who make themselves available to mentor or oversee homebuilt aircraft construction. You can check EAA.ORG for any near you. In Canada, EAA Tech Counselor visits only add to builder benefit by providing a 'second set of eyes' overview of builder progress & provide some build guidance where needed. These visits do not apply 'credit' towards the Canadian mandatory MD-RA inspections.
Click to expand...

This is a good point, I'm going to call the MDRA and ask what they want. I knew there had to be a reason I paid them all that money ;)

I've looked for a nearby EAA tech counselor. Few and far between up here in the Boreal, I'm afraid.
 
Flying Canuck said:
There shouldn't be any rivets that can't be seen during the pre-cover inspection.
Click to expand...

If this were objectively true the HS (specifically on the 14) would need a minimum of two, but probably three, separate inspections. Either that or the inspector would have to inspect the nose ribs, and then stand there and watch me drop in the forward spar and rivet it together. Or, as was my original query, I install some rivets backwards.
 
Polar said:
If this were objectively true the HS (specifically on the 14) would need a minimum of two, but probably three, separate inspections. Either that or the inspector would have to inspect the nose ribs, and then stand there and watch me drop in the forward spar and rivet it together. Or, as was my original query, I install some rivets backwards.
Click to expand...

My experience was to go as far as I could so he could see all the rivets, them have the pre-cover inspection, and he would allow the part to be completed even though some rivets installed after the inspection could not be seen on the final inspection. Call your inspector as you plan to and ask what he would like.
 
I happen to be a Tech Councelor... Sportair instructor... Builder assist provider... & folks have other names for me as well...

Drop in if you are ever near Springbank!
403-614-6142
344 Noorduyn Pk
Springbank Airport
Calgary
 
Ralph Inkster said:
I happen to be a Tech Councelor... Sportair instructor... Builder assist provider... & folks have other names for me as well...

Drop in if you are ever near Springbank!
403-614-6142
344 Noorduyn Pk
Springbank Airport
Calgary
Click to expand...

Your reputation precedes you Ralph, I've actually flown in a plane you built - Shane's Getson's Subaru-powered RV7 :)
 
I spoke to the MDRA inspector, and sent him page 08-11 from the plans. He said that the rivets below the forward spar should be visible with a mirror and flashlight through one of the lightening holes, and that I should proceed with assembly.
 
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