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  #1  
Old 11-10-2018, 04:34 PM
Mark33 Mark33 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 429
Default Wingtips/ailerons/flap alignment

I know this has been discussed about a million times before but I guess we can make it a million and one. I'm working on getting my ailerons lined up in preparation to fit the wingtips up on my -7. If I use the outer wing-rib tooling holes as my guide to get the aileron trailing edge lined up, than the flaps don't line up with the aileron when they're fully retracted. I've read conflicting things regarding this issue. Some folks say to line up the ailerons with the flaps...others say to focus on the tooling holes. I certainly want the airplane to fly straight and level without a heavy wing, but I also want it to look right...everything should be lined up...(wingtips, ailerons, flaps). I'm not worried about the wingtips; I can get those dialed in after everything else is lined up. However, speaking of wingtips though, what's the consensus on attaching those. I know it may be nice to be able to remove them, but is there any real reason to do so? I'm installing the Aveo "zip-tips" on my project and there's a large access plate on the bottom of the wingtip near the front which will allow me full access to the lights and wiring, so I'm wondering what the real benefit would be to designing them to be removable. I know some people do the piano- hinge technique and others use 1/4 turn or nut-plates, but if there's no real benefit to having them removable than I'm thinking about just riveting them on. I know there's also discussions regarding the "heavy wing" and how to deal with it by slotting the outer hinge bracket attach points on the ailerons, but for this discussion I'm mostly wanting to talk about initial proper alignment. I'm almost thinking that the best way to get everything lined up "and" to address a possible heavy wing will be to:
1. Align the ailerons up with the flaps first,
2. Go fly,
3. Adjust the outer aileron hinge accordingly to address a "heavy wing",
4. Adjusted the wingtips to line them up with the ailerons.

Thanks for any advice,
Mark

Last edited by Mark33 : 11-10-2018 at 05:09 PM.
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  #2  
Old 11-10-2018, 05:07 PM
jdiehl jdiehl is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Williamsport, Pa
Posts: 159
Default Aileron setting

Mary,
My 7A has flown wings level since construction. Yes, I tinkered with the ailerons and flaps, spending a lot of time assuring that the rod ends had adequate thread contact. This was quite time consuming working outward from the stick, through the bell rank, and to the ailerons. But to your question, I followed vans guidance and set the ailerons to the tooling holes, THEN aligned the flaps to the ailerons. That simple! In my case,the trailing ends of the wingtips are not perfectly aligned with the ailerons but that hasn’t been an issue. Later you can go back and tweak the flap and/or ailerons if necessary. Hope this helps.

Jim Diehl 7A
Lock Haven, Pa
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  #3  
Old 11-10-2018, 05:19 PM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
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ailerons should be aligned with the tooling holes and the flaps with the ailerons. The mechanical end of the flaps upward travel does not place the flap in the properly rigged location for that wing. Don't be confused by what you may have read about the 10/14, where that is the case.

Install screws from the inside of the tooling holes and tighten with nuts on the outside. This gives you something to hold a straight edge on. Be sure to account for the fact that the straight edge will not be on the tooling holes center.

Larry
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RV-6A / IO-320, Flying as of 8/2015
RV-10 in progress

Last edited by lr172 : 11-10-2018 at 05:22 PM.
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  #4  
Old 11-10-2018, 05:33 PM
Mark33 Mark33 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 429
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Thanks Larry Jim for the reply,
Yeah, like I said, I'm really not all that concerned with the wingtips...I can adjust them accordingly once the ailerons and flaps are lined up and the airplane is flying straight and level. The main issue that I'm having right now is that when the ailerons are lined up with the tooling holes and with the flaps fully retracted, the ailerons are a little proud by about 1/8" in reference to the flaps and I don't see how I can get the flaps to come up any further. If I drop the ailerons down to line up with the flaps then they will be out of line with the tooling holes. Larry, you mentioned that the straight edge won’t be center of the tooling holes. If this is the case, what reference point are you actually using?

Thanks again,
Mark
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  #5  
Old 11-11-2018, 10:19 PM
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longranger longranger is offline
 
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Location: 45G, Brighton, MI
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Mark, you may have to joggle the inboard end of the lower flap skin to allow the flap’s trailing edge to come up to meet that of the aileron. If you droop the aileron to meet the flap, you’re going to end up with that wing having a little more camber than what it should, and the airplane will tend to turn away from that wing.
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RV-7 TU 904KM (reserved)
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1955 Cessna 170B flying since 1982

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  #6  
Old 11-11-2018, 10:58 PM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
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Location: Schaumburg, IL
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As Miles said, if the flaps aren't coming up high enough to be in alignment with the ailerons, something is catching or hanging up. I had to trim a bit of the curved portion of the flap an the extreme inboard edge, as it was hitting a rivet or something. Mine was a 6 and didn't think that would happen on a pre-punched kit. Either way, everything should line up with the tooling holes. If it doesn't, start snipping or adjusting until it does.

What I meant was that if you lay a straight edge on top of the two screws, your straight edge will be 1/2D above the tooling holes center and you need to account for that. If the screws were 1/8", the straight edge should be 1/16" above the center of the aileron trailing edge when properly aligned. I used the tooling holes in the aileron instead of the tip. In this case, the straight edge should align with the tops of the aileron tooling holes, not the centers. I am not sure if the aileron tooling holes should be in a direct line. Mine were not, but the were in plane, just offset when in proper aligment. That was on a 6, not a 7.

Larry
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Last edited by lr172 : 11-11-2018 at 11:05 PM.
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  #7  
Old 11-11-2018, 11:38 PM
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longranger longranger is offline
 
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Location: 45G, Brighton, MI
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The I set the aileron position using a taut string with a loop tied in one end clecoed into the forward tooling hole in the leading edge rib, and the other end taped securely to the trailing edge aileron. I adjusted the angle of the aileron until the string ran past the center of the rest of the tooling holes, then clamped it in place.

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Miles (VAF# 1238, Paid up as of 2018)
RV-7 TU 904KM (reserved)
Wings Fitted and Finish Kit on site

Construction Log
Picasa: Empennage Album, Wings Album, Fuselage Album

1955 Cessna 170B flying since 1982

'To get something you never had, you have to do something you never did.' -Unk.
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  #8  
Old 11-12-2018, 06:21 AM
Mark33 Mark33 is offline
 
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Location: Baton Rouge, La.
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Thanks Larry and Miles for the good information! I’ll double check the flaps and see if a little trimming or joggling will give me a little extra room to come up a little bit so that they’ll line up with the ailerons. Regarding the tooling holes/aileron alignment, I actually put a laser on them to line everything up. One thing I did noticed was that when the tooling holes are “perfectly” aligned, the actual trailing edge tip of the ailerons aren’t “perfectly” lined up. I’m having to “cheat” by about a half a tooling hole to truly get that trailing aileron edge to line up.

Mark
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  #9  
Old 11-12-2018, 09:40 AM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
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Location: Schaumburg, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark33 View Post
Thanks Larry and Miles for the good information! I’ll double check the flaps and see if a little trimming or joggling will give me a little extra room to come up a little bit so that they’ll line up with the ailerons. Regarding the tooling holes/aileron alignment, I actually put a laser on them to line everything up. One thing I did noticed was that when the tooling holes are “perfectly” aligned, the actual trailing edge tip of the ailerons aren’t “perfectly” lined up. I’m having to “cheat” by about a half a tooling hole to truly get that trailing aileron edge to line up.

Mark
Food for thought, but from an aerodynamic standpoint, you are not aligning the tip, but aligning the desired air flow geometry over the two airfoils (wing & alileron). I would be aligning to the tooling holes and not the tip, as these were engineered to be the reference lines.

Larry
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RV-10 in progress

Last edited by lr172 : 11-12-2018 at 09:43 AM.
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  #10  
Old 11-12-2018, 09:44 AM
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Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is offline
 
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Location: Dogwood Airpark (VA42)
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Mark,

I’ve posted on this before so recommend you read those.

In short, the flaps must be in the full up position before anything else. I’ve fixed a couple of heavy wings by showing the owner this problem. After you do this, verify the flaps are at the same “in trail” position.

I know it goes against Van’s instructions and the wisdom of the crowd, but consider the tooling holes just a place to start. Get the flaps right, then ailerons, then wingtips. Now measure the aileron hang (as in too low/high, too far in at one end, etc.). The aileron hang is the leading cause of a heavy wing (assuming no construction issue). Once done go back to find the tooling holes lined up. After all that, rig the wingtips in line with the ailerons. Three RVs done this way and never had to cut the wingtip trailing edge.

I recommend #6 screws and nutplates to attached the wingtips. At some point you will want to take them off for new lights or for paint.

Carl

Last edited by Carl Froehlich : 11-12-2018 at 09:48 AM.
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