Too soon to start building?

I suppose I'll make this my first thread and write a brief introduction about myself. I'm a 24-year-old pilot-turned-ATCer, finishing up my first year with the FAA on the dark side . Another year and I hope to be facility rated and able to do damage on all positions, in all kinds of airspace, before transferring somewhere bigger and busier where I can REALLY cause a ruckus.

Anyways, I've always wanted to fly, and in fact one of my first memories is trying to open the door to my dad's Archer to go to the bathroom. Then came OSH, the first solo, and finally blowing tens of thousands of dollars on flight school, before finding out I had a knack for directing little blips around

I'm sure most of you can appreciate the urge to own, maintain, and fly your OWN airplane, instead of incurring monthly club dues, exorbitant wet rates for an anemic Skyhawk just to get your head above the clouds. Then there are the headaches of owning a certified airplane: annuals, ADs, storage, and worst of all: maintenance.

The kit-plane seems to be the solution to all of life's problems. You can build it yourself, have complete knowledge of the airplane's history, quality of manufacture, capabilities, and limitations. It's certainly possible to store the aircraft on one's own property (provided a nice 1500' or so of grass are available ), maintain it, inspect it, and care for it completely without the fuss of having to involve a third party. So why an RV and not something else? I don't think I even have to answer that question. Because they're fun! (They're also built very traditionally, have excellent resale, and you can actually find someone to sign off on it instead of looking at a mess of fiberglass, wood, and steel tubing scratching their head, let alone insure it)

So my question to all of you is: when is too early to build? Should one wait until they have a house, a yard, a nagging wife, and ankle-biting money-pit-bundles of joy? Or is it best to jump right in and pound rivets in one's spare time while they HAVE spare time? I can certainly afford to buy a tailkit, and by the time THAT's done, I'm sure I'll have made enough progress through the paybands to move on to the wing, and so on, and soforth.

Build on...

As one who is struggling with balancing "wants" with "responsibilities", I say you are at the perfect time to start building. Just pay as you go. Anyone whom you meet down the road will know this is who you are. You can always sell your finished plane should you need that down payment for a home and then you'll be a hero for it.

Come on in, the waters fine!

Welcome aboard Frank.

From my experience, You can never start too early. I have been thinking about building an experimental airplane since the early 70's when I first joined EAA.

I finally acted in 1993 when I purchased an RV-6 tail kit. Life happens and I didn't start building again until 1998 when I purchased a complete RV-6QB kit with a pickled 0-360 engine.

Leap ahead to 2009 and I am still not finished. Again "LIFE HAPPENS". Projects get put on hold for many reasons (cash flow, care for aging parents, etc.)

I did buy a 1946 Taylorcraft 15 years ago so my project has been put on the back burner for that and many other reasons.

I am now in a full court press to finish before I really have to start checking off my "Bucket List".

Hopefully, I will finish my project before you do yours....LOL

Frank, I wish I'd started building at 24. That's all I gotta say about that....as Forrest says.

I started at 23 my advice is start now just pay as you go... I am 30 and have had my 8 flying for over 3yrs now and guess what???? It is Paid for and all mine

I'm 21 and purchased the RV-8 tailkit not long ago. You're in the same position I was.

I think of it as an investment. I may have a tight budget, but I am not stupid with my money either. For my particular situation, I feel that instead of buying an aircraft outright on credit, I can pay as I go and build as I go. Portions of money getting sucked up bits and bits at a time, but all going towards my invested goal. A flying RV-8.

Sure, I don't have the money for the wings right now, but down the road I will. There are major investments that I have towards the next kit. Then there are extremely minor things that I even do. I have weekly automatic transfers of $10. This goes into the airplane account. By the end of the year I nearly have 10% of the wing kit paid for with play money that would have went elsewhere. I don't even notice its gone.

Besides, when the time (money) comes, the tail is already done and out of the way

Dive in.

Frank,

I'm with DR on this one. I wish I had started building before 24, but I didn't have the income to support it. Now I'm looking at 35 and hoping I can finish my plane before I'm 40. Then I'm hoping I can enjoy it for 20ish years (or at least fly it while building another) before losing my medical.

If you have the income to support building an airplane, then get started.

Also, if you're looking for cheap space, consider building in a storage facility for RV's (ha!) or boats. I keep my boat in a 12x60 facility for $150/mo. I could get a 12x30 for $105/mo and that would be plenty of room to build. I just opted for the larger space because the cost wasn't much for the space, so we split it with my parents.

But if you can afford it. GO! Now's the time. Don't let life pass you by and don't wait until you have other commitments who will NEED your time (Wife, Kids).

go! Go! GO!

I'll throw my hat into the "build now" ring also. A couple things that will be advantages: I gather you aren't married. Search around this site and you'll find a bunch of guys who either came down with AIDS (aviation induced divorce syndrome) or had other big problems. Your future wife will go in knowing what drives you. Also you won't have to hurry to finish before you get too old. You'll push anyway, but you won't have that excuse. I would think, in your position, you might be able to find places to work and all kinds of assistance.

In short, place an order for a tail kit and start buying tools.

Bob Kelly

<BUILD NOW!>

I started building in 2003 at age 42 - single, never married, no kids, great job...

Jump forward to 2009: Married, my first baby, a girl "Jacie" newborn 10-26-2009, three great other girls ages 8, 10, 16, down market. "Life comes at you fast!" I'm about "85%" done. Glad I got started when I did.

</BUILD NOW!>

I agree, build now, but ONLY at the pace of CASH flow. We had no idea where we were going to find the funds to finish a whole airplane when we started but circumstances were in our favor along the way.

My 2 cents

Just to feel like one of the crowd let me throw my support in for you getting started. I was 31 when I started and hope to be flying before my 35th birthday this October. I am not married, and just have a small house for me and the dog. I am building the -10 in my garage with plans to grow into the 4 seats. Since beginning I have acquired a girlfiend who has been part of the process from the beginning (we started dating after I paid for the emennage but before getting started. She actually went with me to Alexander technical center to start the tail feathers). Having the project before her arrival makes it a part of the total package from the beginning, and I truly believe it is easier for her to accept since it has been a continual presence and there is no "before the plane we used to..." type of stuff. She has been very suportive and very helpful. Until the engine and panel I paid as I went. If a plane is what you want, and you are looking at a kit-built you are at the right place. Jump on in and get started. Pound rivets when you can, and everything else will fall into place.

Eric Kallio
RV-10 N518RV
Installing panel and wiring

It is never to early to start!! I am 22 have one semester of college left and then am straight into the Army as an LT. I started now because I dident want to have to build the motivation again to Start from scratch when I get out of the army so I figured if I had a good portion done before I went in then it would be easy to finish. The only downside to this is that I spend all my time in class thinking the plane and what needs to be done that night. If I can do it then anyone can do it. It's alot of fun and this place will give you all the knowledge and help you need. Place an order and have some fun!
-david

Get Started!!

I agree with the other guys! I started my tail kit when I was 26 and engaged. Fortunately I already told my fiance that I wanted to own an airplane so she was totally cool with it. I worked on my plane after work and on the weekends (basically when it didn't interfere with spending time with my fiance.)

I also got the tail kit "used" from another builder. It was basically unstarted and I saved about $800.............plus he was in my area so i just drove over in my truck and picked up the kit. Its an easy way to save money! Start as soon as you can, and pay as you go!

Echo Tango...

...you forgot to say the most important reason for building your own airplane (at least it is my reason): building an airplane (as building a/p radiocontrolled models when I was a child and before a/p static models) is probably the most funny experience you can do in your life. First of all, build it if you feel you will enjoy doing it. Other reasons come later.

Having said that, I started at 30 y.o. and if I could go back in the past, I will have started sooner. My only regret is that unfortunately this is not a free hobby and you should marry building job with main job, in order not to feel yourself "guilty" to spend more money than those you can earn. That is the reason why probably I did not take earlier my decision and why I felt myself a bit builty in the first period of my building experience...

Your situation sounds perfect

Your situation and rationale sound very good to me. I certainly would not consider traditional life benchmarks as prerequisites for starting. In addition to the practical reasons you stated, completing the build will give you confidence and knowledge that will get you into a life track that you probably could not achieve otherwise. We can't predict exactly what path our lives will take but we can choose to do things that we can do to keep us going in the direction that we want to go. This is a good educational and recreational activity that will keep you from blowing your time and money on frivolous things and it will positively effect your future no matter what your final career path looks like when you reflect back on it. I do not agree that you can never start too early but when I was 24 I felt very mature. I joined the Air Force at 17 and I think that is too young to start building an airplane by yourself but by the time I was 19 I think I was starting to acquire the right level of personal responsibility to do the job. Desire and responsibility alone are not enough to do a good job of creating your airplane however, you will require some training to acquire the necessary skills and knowledge. That's OK, the airplane will provide the motivation and the skills and knowledge acquired in the build process will serve you well in your life pursuits long after the plane is done.

When did I start my RV-6A? Oh, I was 60.

Bob Axsom

Yes, build now!

mikehoover said:

<BUILD NOW!>

I started building in 2003 at age 42 - single, never married, no kids, great job...

Jump forward to 2009: Married, my first baby, a girl "Jacie" newborn 10-26-2009, three great other girls ages 8, 10, 16, down market. "Life comes at you fast!" I'm about "85%" done. Glad I got started when I did.

</BUILD NOW!>

Click to expand...

I wanted to build one of these RV things since I was in college (circa 1983). At that time there was no money or place to build. Skip forward a decade. Still little money and still no place to build but I had a private glider license and a glider. I guess thats where the money went.

Similar to Mike I started my -8 in late 2002 at the age of 42, single, never married, no kids but I wouldn't say great job, oh well. My project sat for 4 years or so in the middle there while I got married, got a different job and moved. Almost sold it a few times but am glad I didn't. Now the fuse is well under way, I have an engine and even though I enjoy the building can see the light at the end of the building tunnel.

I too say if you have the desire and the money for a tail kit and some tools build now. If during the process it ends up sitting for a while don't worry about it. It will still be there when you can get back to it.

Now I'm looking forward to when mine breaks the surly bonds. If I never started it or had sold it that would never happen and that would be a real shame.

Build now. But it is a commitment to time/space/money. You have an advantage: You're not married and mortgaged. You can build, when and how you want, without having to be sensitive to the needs of family members. You can build in your living room or rent a hangar at the airport with a loft apartment to live in while you build, even better if said hangar/apartment is at the field where you ATC. If your life situation changes and you no longer have time/space/money, you can put the kit in storage while you work your way back to a situation where you can build, or you can sell it, retaining the knowledge and experience to help you when you start over or pick up a partial kit later on.

Oh, and re: family members - a good litmus test of prospective mates will be the shining pile of aluminum and parts slowly becoming an airplane. If they dig it, hold on to them and don't let go.

Thanks for the motivation, guys! I half-expected a bunch of replies explaining how I hadn't weighed all of the facts, hidden costs, and the impossibility of building while still moving around every couple years. I'm currently compiling a list of tools I'll need to buy, as my father has quite a few that are about a decade old from a botched hummelbird build (though something tells me when I get started on the -7, he'll want to pick up the rivet gun again )

I think he bought the "basic toolkit" from aircraft spruce back in the early 90s

go to sun-n-fun and/or oshkosh this year

Now that we've decided that you will start building soon, I recommend you put in for your vacation time in April for Sun-n-Fun. Camping is a great way to enjoy the show on the cheap.
- Go visit the great folks at Cleaveland tools (Avery and others too). They'll help you get started with basic tools for the empennage, and it's nice to talk to someone in person.
- Sign up for a free ride in whichever RV you think you want at the Van's booth. hint: get there early. Also, sit in all of the other models.
- look at the workshop schedule and find one where they'll show you basic riveting. (or find a local builder and ask for a shop tour and quick tutorial.)
- Have fun looking at everything else homebuilt related. It will probably overwhelm you, but just remember that your only goal is to order and build the empennage.

Good Luck on your build, Wish I would have started when I was 21...but there was no RV planes when I was 21, LOL!

If you assume that you build 1 hour on each day and will spend x hours for building. That leads to fact that every day you skip workshop day will move first flight for one day and if you delay the start of building, the first flight will be as well as many days later as you now keep considering whether to build or not...

However as said many, this ain't small decision and for most of us couple moths ain't much so going to Sun'n'Fun and making decision after that might be clever. If you want make the decision quicker, get contacted with local builders.

Summarum: sooner you start, sooner you finish and don't you think it's nice to fly when do not have to worry about medical or such things?

At some point, it will be too late to start, or finish the build. Why push your luck?

You're in a good position Frank.....Just do it..!

At age 24 with an FAA job in Aviation; a pilots license and a desire to build your own AirSheen. What could be better..?.

Plenty of good advice has been offered. Without a wife/kids you could build in your living room...hahah...I've often had the desire to build without regard to family considerations (what could be better than having a new IO-360 on an engine stand in your dining room?...)

However when I was 24 life was in the way; a child in the oven a flying job as a Corporate Pilot that kept me criss-crossing the Country several times a week; getting transfered to a new division every 8 months prevented anything but apartment living. No space, no time. I attended Rockford (pre-Oshkosh) in 68 with my dad earlier and became interested in the Cassuit Sport Racer.

So I envy you because you are focused and have goals. Don Hall mentioned Sun and Fun. Get to know the tool people. Start collecting TOOLS....you will be surprised at how many tools you need. ($). Even if you have to put the project on hold, never sell the tools. Heck...build yourself a small apartment in a hanger...the possiblities are endless.

*make sure your future ex-wife is aware of your priorities from the get go.
(a joke, but in some ways not)

Bob

In my experience (which i'll summarize that at the bottom), I think you need a few things to build an airplane:

1. Space. I assume you've considered that you'll need at least a one-car garage worth of space to build the components, and then something two-car sized or a hangar to assemble in. I started in a basement room in my townhouse that was the size of a one-car garage, after working out that I could get the tail surfaces and wings out when the time came. Fuselage was another issue that I planned to deal with later.

2. Time. You need to be able to dedicate at least an hour a day to keep the project going. If you miss even a day, it gets harder to come back to it. If you plan to work on it full time one day a week, you'll take longer, as you'll spend half the time remembering where you left off last week. Shorter bursts more regularly are better.

3. Support. You need this to make the Time. If you're single, it's easier. If you're married or living with someone, you need their support and sometimes their boot in your butt to get in to the workshop for an hour a day. Eventually you'll need their help too, as you start bucking rivets in awkward places.

4. Money. The kit price is known, and you can figure out with a few google searches what it's going to cost to put together a stack of instruments, an engine, an upholstery, and paint. Once you've done that, and made a guess how long it will take you to build, you can work out a budget for how much it will cost you as you go. Once you've done that, don't give up. Money always seems to be available once you've decided you can do this. Really, if you're going to biy a plane instead, you'll need the same money. All that changes is when you start flying.

Now, i'd like to say that i'd completed an RV and could say that I speak from experience as a result. But I can't. I started 10 years ago at 28, and i've still only got the tail kit, and it's only partially completed. Just this month I purchased a completed RV-6 because my desire to be up flying has finally outweighed my desire and patience to be down here building. That, and at the rate i'm going I figure by the time I finish i'll need Depends rated for +6/-3G before i'll be able to enjoy it. One of the goals when I started was to have the RV flying before I was 40, and I can see that there's no way i'll finish the -7 by that time.

In my case, I lost a lot of Time due to changes in employment (both expected and unexpected) and change in residence (townhouse to house). And while I love my wife of 20 years dearly she isn't really an aviation person and as a result it probably wasn't fair to expect her to Support my need for the Time to work on the project... Especially when we also needed to renovate first the townhouse, and now our house. Space has never been an issue, the townhouse was good for the first half of the kit, and the house now has a two-car garage that would let me finish it. Money hasn't been an issue either, after all I did just buy a completed -6. The money always seems to be there when you need it.

For now the -7 will remain a side project, or maybe it'll be a retirement project. Although by then there may be an RV-17 instead. One option is to finish the tail and put it on the -6, it seems a lot of people are doing that now. But i'll fly the -6 for a while first, and decide what i'd want to do differently before I go back to building.

For you, 24 is a good age to start. But get going on it, and get it done quickly. The main reason is that if you don't, you'll fall behind all the other projects around you, and get lost in the desire to be up there flying rather than down on the ground building. You'll also fall victim to encroachmnets on the other requirements... You'll find a girlfriend and then a wife, take on more important roles at work which take more time, and eventually you'll buy a house that takes more money. Each of these are double-edged swords that have the potential to help or hinder your progress. Choose wisely!

So good luck, and get going!

Practicality

Snowflake pretty much covered his subjects. But there are a couple more to consider.

Tools: You mentioned you are building a list of required tools. What I did to start building my tools was to take the lists of tools from the various tool dealers kits and make a composite list and cross off the ones I already owned. One suggestion I have is visit the pawn shops around the area of the Kazoo airport and WMU. You might pick up some tools cheap from the guys who were students or workers at the shops I know are based there at Kazoo.

Skills: Hows your mechanical skills? Ever done any wrenching on an aircraft? Driven rivets? You did say you were learning the ATC gig; Are you a student at WMU? If so, consider auditing the maintenance courses to pick up the skills you think you might need. Or make friends with the Maintenance instructors to maybe pick up some free lessons on the basic skills. ie: riveting, wiring.. Or even volunteer a couple days at the Kalamazoo Air Zoo in the restoration shops if you can find an 'in' with them.

Thats my $0.02.. for what it's worth...

WilburD2 said:

Snowflake pretty much covered his subjects. But there are a couple more to consider.

Tools: You mentioned you are building a list of required tools. What I did to start building my tools was to take the lists of tools from the various tool dealers kits and make a composite list and cross off the ones I already owned. One suggestion I have is visit the pawn shops around the area of the Kazoo airport and WMU. You might pick up some tools cheap from the guys who were students or workers at the shops I know are based there at Kazoo.

Skills: Hows your mechanical skills? Ever done any wrenching on an aircraft? Driven rivets? You did say you were learning the ATC gig; Are you a student at WMU? If so, consider auditing the maintenance courses to pick up the skills you think you might need. Or make friends with the Maintenance instructors to maybe pick up some free lessons on the basic skills. ie: riveting, wiring.. Or even volunteer a couple days at the Kalamazoo Air Zoo in the restoration shops if you can find an 'in' with them.

Thats my $0.02.. for what it's worth...

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Thanks for the advice, Wilbur. I don't attend WMU, went to UND for aviation , though I'll definitely consider dropping by the restoration center to see if they're actively doing anything at the moment. I know they just got the tri-motor back flying, though I think the work was done elsewhere. Also, one of my co-workers is pretty active with the local EAA chapter at AZO, so I'll probably try to tag along with him to a few meetings.

Thanks again to everyone for the well thought-out replies. Greatly appreciated and certainly a HUGE motivational factor!