electronic ignition

i'm thinking of putting electronic ing. in my rv-4. which one is the best. any disadvantages in doing this? i'd like to here from people who are using them and what performance they are getting.

thanks
danny
rv-4
N2275S

EI is the way to go. Don't find mags on your car, do you?

I've used dual Lightspeed and dual P-mags. Either works as advertised. Advantage to the P-mags as you don't need electric source back-up and they're simpler to install. Lightspeed has a long track record; P/E-mag is relatively new.

You'll get better fuel economy which you can measure, and a bit more power, which may not be readily apparent in operation. Plugs are $2 auto, not $20 airplane. No periodic maintenance for EIs except P-mags will eventually wear; Lightspeeds have no moving parts. Life cycle costs of mags is $thousands.

John Siebold

Hope this isn't too far off-topic regarding EI. I have a Pulsar XP with a Rotax 912...the 4 stroke Rotax engines all use Electronic Ignition and I have to say that I will definitely be putting EI on my RV-7A before it flies.

I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but the Rotax is what modern airplane engines should be like. Water-cooled with Electronic Ignition, and automatic altitude compensating carbs...and they're practically bullet-proof. Too bad they don't come in 200 hp sizes! I guess I'll have to get used to going back to the mixture-control, though.

Well its not a clear choice

dan carley said:

i'm thinking of putting electronic ing. in my rv-4. which one is the best. any disadvantages in doing this? i'd like to here from people who are using them and what performance they are getting. thanks danny rv-4 N2275S

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If you are flying and having fun and the mags are working stick with it. If you have a GRAND burning a hole in your pocket than consider it. How long you keeping the plane? What kind of flying are you doing? Local flying than the mags are fine. Lots of long distance low power altitude cruise (less than 75% power) than you will see a 2,3 may be 4% lower burn in fuel and or a mph more speed. Not bad deal, be it will be a long time to pay off $1000, especially if you fly 100 hours a year, of that 1/3rd low power cruise? The EI is smoother, can start better and give the aforementioned better fuel econ and/or power.

It can be an emotional purchase or a technical one. If you crunch the numbers it works out, if you are getting a new engine and have the choice the Mag/EI, EI is a winner. However replacing an existing mag that is working and will do so for another 500-2000 hours (4-20 years), Economically and practically the EI is a bit if a luxury on an existing plane with good mags. The choice is yours. If you really love doing cross country at altitude the EI really shines. Down low its better than a mag but the difference is small. You can't take your money with you so you might as well spend it.

john,
not sure what you mean by dual Lightspeed and dual P-mags. are they 2 diffrent things or both used together. is their a web page i can get info on the lightspeed EI? i've also heard your engine runs a little cooler with EI. is the unit hard to install?

danny
rv-4
N2275S

I have one of the Electroair units and one conventional magneto.

Since my airplane's engine has always been configured that way, I can't give you a before/after comparison, but I will give you a few points to consider:

1) The engine starts much more easily on the EI or the EI and Mag than on the impulse coupled mag alone.

2) The engine runs much stronger on the EI alone than on the Mag alone.

3) I have suffered one failure of the EI system. I was headed to SnF about a month and a half after the first flight of my airplane. On run-up, the EI was completely dead. Jeff Rose, who developed the system and was the support network for the system, was at SnF and couldn't be found to diagnose the problem or send replacement parts, so I missed the entire show. If my mag had died, I could have sourced replacement parts (or a whole new mag) in a day or so and made the show.

The point is, you won't find the support network for a low volume EI system like exists for our mag's. That means if the EI breaks, you may be stuck somewhere for a few days or a week.

By the way, I've had 400 or so trouble free hours since the EI failure.

Hi Danny,

I have one lightspeed and one mag like many others on the list. With no before or after comparisons to offer since my engine was ordered in this configuration here's an example that can be offered. This is simply going by sound and feel so take it for what it is worth.

During level cruise switching from both to just the lightspeed gives no audible change, nor does the feel of the power change. The plane doesn't appear to go out of pitch trim. Essentially the lightspeed is doing all of the perceived work. Now switch to just the mag and things are different. The sound changes as if somebody restricted the fuel supply and the plane slows instantly. This is not overly dramatic, but it is noticable. My engine analyzer (wife) didn't like it at all when trying this. I was scolded to be truthful. The pitch trim is no longer set perfectly and requires very very slight correction. Upon switching the lightspeed back on the plane feels so much better you'd have to experience it to believe it.
Best,

Dual LSI here...

same indications here as Bryan had in the above post when I had one mag and one LSI. Now that I switched to dual LSI, the motor runs smoother yet and I can run lean of peak (carb) with no roughness at all. Switching to dual caused a noticable improvement in smoothness over one mag and the single LSE.
Walt
7A O360, 500+hrs

Walt said:

same indications here as Bryan had in the above post when I had one mag and one LSI. Now that I switched to dual LSI, the motor runs smoother yet and I can run lean of peak (carb) with no roughness at all. Switching to dual caused a noticable improvement in smoothness over one mag and the single LSE.
Walt
7A O360, 500+hrs

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Interesting! Did you go to dual batteries too? Also, was it a big deal to add the extra magnets for the pickups for the second LS?

Electronic Ignition

dan carley said:

i'm thinking of putting electronic ing. in my rv-4. which one is the best. any disadvantages in doing this? i'd like to here from people who are using them and what performance they are getting.

thanks
danny
rv-4
N2275S

Click to expand...

Dan:

I have one Magneto and the Lightspeed Electonic Ignition on my RV-8. The Lightspeed is fired by the crank trigger system, which requires that the ring gear be removed, drilled for trigger magnets and reinstalled. Performance is very good, plugs stay clean, and there are fuel savings. The best benefit will be realized if the electronic ignition is installed along with fuel injection, making very accurate leaning posible. Lightspeed has a hall effect sensor available which plugs right into the magneto hole on your engine if you don't want to go to the trouble of installing the trigger magnets.

Cost was about $1400, and it has proven trouble free over 200 hours. Auto spark plugs further reduce cost, along with lower fuel flow rates. With the Lightspeed system, the engine can be hand propped.

Still, I echo what George is saying. Unless you are planning long cross country flights with a really leaned out cruise configuration, the value is somewhat questionable. But if you're a gadgeteer like me, go ahead and install the electronic ignition.

Hot stuff

dan carley said:

i've also heard your engine runs a little cooler with EI. is the unit hard to install? danny, rv-4, N2275S

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Actually CHT's go up because you are burning the fuel more completely thus higher temps. Its not a big deal for a properly cooled engine, however some planes have experienced some issues. For some reason the only EI to really cause the problem is the certified LASAR system.

Dual light speed Backup?

Walt
With dual LS what do you have for a backup incase of electrical failure? I really like the idea.
Thanks
Russel Koch

Switching to P-Mag

I guess that I'm the gageteer sort. I've just received a couple of Pmags for installation on my RV-4 (180/CS) currently flying with Slicks. I chose the Pmags primarily because of space limitations...no cigar box sized unit to find a place for.

Another thought just came to mind. If one switches from mags to Pmags, are folks considering this a "major" change and running it by the Feds? Or just installing the EI, making the log entry and flying?

Mitch Garner
RV4 (flying)

Dual LSI

rkochcyxh said:

Walt
With dual LS what do you have for a backup incase of electrical failure? I really like the idea.
Thanks
Russel Koch

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Russ,
I added the B&C BUG (8 amp back up gen) to the system which can carry both LSI's and the essential bus no problem.
Walt

Dual LSI

Bryan Wood said:

Interesting! Did you go to dual batteries too? Also, was it a big deal to add the extra magnets for the pickups for the second LS?

Click to expand...

I went with the B&C BUG with single battery. When I switched to duals I replaced the Hall effect module with the dual crank pick-up. I was having some oil seepage with the Hall effect modules so decided to get rid of all the moving parts!
Walt

E-Mag = Minor mod

Mitch757 said:

Another thought just came to mind. If one switches from mags to Pmags, are folks considering this a "major" change and running it by the Feds? Or just installing the EI, making the log entry and flying?

Mitch Garner
RV4 (flying)

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Mitch,

I am getting ready for my first flight and also for a switch to an E-Mag on the right side. I asked our DAR and he said that the switch would fall under minor mods, not adding any time to our 40 hours. If it would have, I would have swapped prior to the first flight, but I want to get some comparison numbers. I plan on posting them.

Bob Kelly