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  #1  
Old 12-18-2018, 08:32 PM
steve murray's Avatar
steve murray steve murray is online now
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Flat Rock, North Carolina
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Default Looking for advice - Someone who used Sikaflex on RV10

Looking for someone who has installed RV10 windows using Sikaflex (probably UV 295) Read many posts but not finding the specific info experience I am looking for as it relates to flush mount windows on RV10 front & rear windows. I used Sika on my 8 canopy but this is not comparable to the 10

Thanks

Steve
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  #2  
Old 12-18-2018, 09:31 PM
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Bill.Peyton Bill.Peyton is offline
 
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I used Sika 295 on all my 10. I have cracks around the rear windows inspite of using 9 oz. glass around windows. They began after the first 100 degree day. While sika is a great adhesive and used extensively in the marine industry, as itís name implies it flexes with temp. So much so that one layer of glass could not contain the flex. As for the adhesion properties, I tested several coupons and was unable to separate the plexi from the fiberglass without delaminating the fiberglass or shattering the plexi.
I would not use it again in this application
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  #3  
Old 12-19-2018, 06:56 AM
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Hey Bill

Would you be open for a phone call? Wanted to get some ideas on the thickness of Sika used and thoughts on using SIKA without fiberglass overlay PM with my phone # sent

Thx

Steve
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  #4  
Old 12-19-2018, 08:54 AM
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Zuldarin Zuldarin is offline
 
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Hi Bill and Steve, if you guys do talk please let us know the result of the thickness question. I am thinking of using Sika on my 10 windows (used it on my 9A canopy with great results so far). I think the flex part of the sika is a good thing since its the difference in the expansion characteristics of plexi vs fiberglass that caused the cracks. Without that flex the stress of different expansion rates gets transmitted to the plexi. If I don't plan on having a covering glass layer affixed to the plexi this should not be an issue (as long as the thickness of Sika is not an issue.)
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  #5  
Old 12-19-2018, 10:57 AM
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Default I'm interested as well..

I haven't made a choice yet, but was considering Sil-Pruf, Lord Adhesive and Sika. It would be good to share the research together.
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  #6  
Old 12-19-2018, 11:39 AM
Dorfie Dorfie is offline
 
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I installed all my windows using Sikaflex. I liked it a lot and would use same again. Details of how to do all the steps too long to document, you're welcome to call. Just PM me if interested. DONT glass the window-canopy transition. Run your finger over it while Sikaflex still soft and create a little groove all around.
PS. I used the method described by Jan Hanekom form South Africa, not my own idea.
Best.
Johan
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  #7  
Old 12-19-2018, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorfie View Post
I installed all my windows using Sikaflex. I liked it a lot and would use same again. Details of how to do all the steps too long to document, you're welcome to call. Just PM me if interested. DONT glass the window-canopy transition. Run your finger over it while Sikaflex still soft and create a little groove all around.
PS. I used the method described by Jan Hanekom form South Africa, not my own idea.
Best.
Johan
PM Sent. So would the Sika installation you used be similar to the Sil-Pruf method used on the Glasair Sportsman install that I've seen on YouTube? (Essentially, the glass "floats" on the adhesive, with additional adhesive "caulked" around the edges to bring the surface to flush.. No glass overlay.)
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  #8  
Old 12-19-2018, 12:02 PM
bpattonsoa bpattonsoa is offline
 
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I used Sikaflex on my -10, The material was very easy to use and had a long enough life to avoid a frantic rush. But there has been an issue with the outside edges.

I installed the windows per their instructions. There is a gap (the joggle)between the outside edge of the windows and the fiberglass. The gap varies and was up to about 1/4" if I recall correctly. I struck the Sikaflex off level with the top of the windows and fiberglass filling the gap with Sikaflex. I then put two or more layers of fiberglass over the gap onto the windows. The results were very good when I was done, however:

Sikaflex cures to a medium hard rubbery texture. The work was done in a temperature controlled hanger in winter so the temperature never went over about 70. Then when flying and with outside temperatures were over 100 a few times on trips, problems started showing up on the outside edge of the windows. It started out with some bulging along the edge that was more apparent because of the metallic silver paint. At first it seemed to come and go, but as time went on it became permanent and the fiberglass started cracking in a couple of areas. It appears to have stabilized out at this time, but it is definitely still there.


Now for my theory of why. The bulging is caused by the thermal expansion of the windows compressing the Sikaflex. It is clearly related to the size and shape of the window and location on the window. For example, the rear window is bulging on the rear curved end and the forward corners. These are the areas where the most thermal expansion of the plexiglass shows. The same is true of the front, the fiberglass has cracked on the lower corner.

So what would I recommend if using Sikaflex? First when installing the windows, remove the Sikaflex from the gap between the edge of the window and the joggle in the fiberglass when it is still "wet". Fill it with a hard filler, sand and then put a couple of layers of glass over the joint. The windows are not large enough for thermal expansion to be a problem. Be very careful in sanding to avoid going thru the fiberglass. Perhaps even using carbon fiber might be better because it is thinner and you are aware if you sand into the fabric.

Would I use Sikaflex again? Perhaps, I don't know what the other materials are like in this regard. I know it is easy to use and definitely will hold the windows in.
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  #9  
Old 12-19-2018, 02:17 PM
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You can't set the window in a soft elastomer, then overlay the joint with fiberglass or carbon. It's nearly guaranteed to either shear the epoxy-to-plexiglass bond, or damage the fiberglass overlay.

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit....php?p=1186931
http://www.vansairforce.com/communit....php?p=1282735

Sikaflex is a fine choice if there is no overlay.
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  #10  
Old 12-19-2018, 06:05 PM
bpattonsoa bpattonsoa is offline
 
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Dan, you are absolutely right. Wish I knew what I know now four years ago when I used the Sikaflex! If you remove it from the joggle and fill with a filler and then glass to avoid a hairline crack, or tool a grove and then paint over it, it could work.

I have been stareing at my mistake for a long time while building the Rans. Eventually I will just have to fix it, Oregon winters are a great incentive to take on jobs like this. After catching up on the six years on the honey do list I will need a job.
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Bruce Patton
Building Rans S-20 Raven 796S reserved
Going to the light side!
RV-6A 596S flying since '99 (Sold)
HP-18 5596S flying since '89
RV-10 996S tail, quick build wing and slow build fues., - dual Skyviews with complete system, two radio and not much else. Interior completely finished with Zolatone. CF plenum, interior complete. 1624 lbs, FLYING after a 21.5 month build.
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