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Why not an RV-14?

KC10Chief

Member
I apologize if this sort of thing has been asked before but I'm just looking for some clarification. I've been lurking here forever! I have been flying for almost 21 years now and have always wanted to build my own airplane. I finally came to the realization that there's probably never a good time to build a plane. You just have to do it. I recently ordered the plans for the RV-7 and am currently reorganizing my garage and acquiring the tools I need. I'll probably order an empennage kit after the new year. I was also looking at the RV-14. There's a lot fewer 14s flying than 7s. Also, a lot less motor options out there for the 14. It seems that there are IO-360s under every rock in comparison! I don't think I can burn mogas in the 390 either, right? It looks like the 7 is a little more agile and slightly faster. Personally, I want a great cross country plane that can do the occasional loop or roll.

I'm 6'1" tall and about 215 pounds. My wife is also 6'1" tall and quite a bit thinner. HA! She doesn't like flying as much as I do and I'd probably be solo most of the time. I'm retired from the Air Force where I started out as an aircraft mechanic for the first nine years and then I was a flight engineer for the last 11. I work for Boeing now. Airplanes are no stranger to me and I have thousands of flight hours. I definitely miss all of the flying though and need my own plane! I'm pretty set on the 7 and I realize I'm posting in the RV-7 forum. I just need some enablers to give me that final push over the edge into the 7 instead of the 14!
 
The 7 and the 14 are quite similar, but also not.
You will find the cockpit of the 14 to be a bit larger. Providing better leg, head and shoulder room. If I were you I would find a local 7 that you and your wife can sit in and see if it fits your desired level of comfort and spaciousness. There are some modifications you can make for more head and leg room but the shoulder room is fixed.
Another nod to the 14 is the continuing development of the Van's kits and the plans. The 7 plans start out very specific and get more general as the build progresses. Read through your preview plans to see what I mean. I am sure some of that is by design. They shouldn't need to remind you to smooth and de-burr every piece but sometimes a little more clarity is nice. The good thing is that any questions you might have are always answered. The 14 plans that I have looked at seem to have a more consistent level of detail/instruction throughout the build.
Haven't flown a 14 but I have sat in them. At 6'5" I find the 7 to be a bit of a squeeze. Especially with 2 on board. I did not get that feeling at all while sitting in the 14.
The 7 flies wonderfully and you wouldn't be disappointed. I assume the 14 flies similarly but probably not exactly the same. I know the 10 flies nicer than nearly any spam can out there so one can assume the engineers at Van's worked equally as hard to make the 14 a pleasant aircraft to fly.
The 7 is a great airplane but if I was building a 2 seat side by side I would build a 14 if for no other reason than the extra room.
 
Come out to Atlanta and fly the rv14. It's a really nice airplane. As is the 7! The 14 just has all of the creature comforts we like as we get older, like more space. 😀
 
If you're contemplating the A model I'd buy the RV14A just to get the more robust nose gear. The RV7A nosegear has proven to be very fragile.
 
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If you're contemplating the A model I'd buy the RV14A just to get the more robust nose gear. The RV7A nosegear has proven to be very fragile.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but the 7A nose gear is NOT fragile.
 
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Walt is spot on, nothing fragile about the 7A nose gear. I see the 14 as having more room than the 7 and for a well equipped 14 you will have 185k invested. It's a two seat 10 but I do love it and if budget was no issue I would build the 14. The 7 has RV 8 wings and is much more of a sport airplane that has great cross country performance as well. It's really about your mission and to some extent your budget, both are wonderful airplanes.
 
Or just put in auto pilot and that 7 will calm right on down to a ......sorry, can't think of anything, can't afford any BMW to compare it to :rolleyes:
 
Either will give you the RV grin. If you opt for the -7, build it with the Anti-Splat Almost -14 mod for more seat back room.

I'm 5'8" and 205 but have friends that want to fly that are well over 6' tall so I will be doing the Almost -14 mod during my first annual in Jan 2018.
 
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but the 7A nose gear is NOT fragile.

And of course you too are entitled to your opinion Walt.

However the truth is that the RV7A nosegear was primarily a carry-over design from the RV6A. But the RV6A had a lower gross weight and they were largely built in a previous period during the 80s and 90s when the norm was for a much simpler lighter aircraft typically with a midlife O320 engine, a timber prop, and simple VFR panel. Therefore weight on the nose was generally less and the margin of safety greater.

The period of the RV7A and of the QB kit saw a completely different demographic of builder emerge. Many builders were more affluent and they wanted bigger engines, CS props and lots of third party doodads (and often full IFR panels). Together with a higher gross weight this put greater loads on the nosegear and the end result was that the margin of safety was reduced to the point that it became problematic.

I saw an RV7A that folded its nosegear during take-off at a local airshow earlier this year and it caused $50,000 worth of damage. My best guess is that any RV7A pilot who has an engine failure resulting in a forced off-field landing will need not just good flying skills but a huge amount of luck to not experience a nose gear collapse.

Maybe the word "fragile" is a bit subjective. Let's just say that there is not a lot of structural redundancy in the RV7A nosegear. ;)
 
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An observation

I have been working on completing a purchased RV-7A project at Synergy in Eugene since February.

During that time, I have watched several builders start and others complete their RV-14's. My very inexperienced opinion is that the RV-14 kits are a lot easier to complete than the RV-7's.

As an example, we had to rebuild the entire canopy section of my RV-7 (tip up). This process took two and a half weeks, despite the assistance of two of Synergy's most experienced A&P's. I have watched several RV-14 tip up canopies be assembled in about a week. The RV-14 stuff just fits, the RV-7 canopy frame requires an inordinate amount of skill and tweaking to get it to fit right. The original canopy was probably airworthy, but it did not meet mine nor Synergy's fit/finish standards. It did become a good test article for verifying a canopy breaker, though...

Clearly, there are a lot of RV-7's flying and a lot of them were built by first time builders. If you are planning on using a build assist program, I suspect the RV-14 might be a wash cost-wise versus the RV-7. It sure looks like it is a lot easier to build. But they are different airplanes with different capabilities.
 
KC,

I was in the very same boat as you are. I lurked for quite some time and had decided on the -7. Ordered the plans, did the research and all the rest of the due diligence that should be done before starting the project. My mission was to have a great cross country airplane that could handle the occasional roll, loop, or spin. I wanted to have the option to burn Mogas, and have speed. My wife loves to fly, but 90% of the time, it's just me. Then I/we went to Oshkosh.

My wife and I sat in the -7 and it was OK. When we sat in the -14 she simply said "this one". While at Oshkosh, I spoke to Vic Syracuse and several others and began the due diligence all over. In the end, I choose the -14. The reasons that tipped the scale were:

1) Fits better
2) Still fits the mission
3) Builds faster
4) More stable IFR platform than the -7

I'm giving up some options on the engine, spending more money, and a few knots, but I think I'm getting an aircraft that suites my mission better.

You're not that far from me (by air), if you'd like to come up and take a look at my project or even work for a day (or not), you'd be welcome. I live very close to K64 and if you have something that you're comfortable landing on 2800' of grass (I currently get a Mooney in and out of there with no problems), I'd be happy to show you around my project.

If interested, PM me.

Best of luck,

Fred
 
KC,

Don't even consider building one until you have flown in both, or at least flown in a 7.
I'm just under 6'2", and the RV-14 is JUST big enough for me to be comfortable.
When I went for my first RV ride, it was in a 6/6A. I was sold on the 6A before I went for the ride, but after the ride, I was actually disappointed in the cabin size, and realized a 2 seat plane of that size did not fit into my family plans and my flying goals. That ride saved me a lot of headache and heartache.

Eventually after owning a spam can, I built, flew, and fell in love with an RV-10. That plane fit everything I needed at the time.

Eventually I had additional goals, and I started looking at the RV-7/7A as a nice additional plane. But when I flew in one, I realized it was too cramped and really wasn't sold on it as the plane to fit me. In fact, I disliked the feel of the cockpit, but would find it just tolerable as a part-time X/C plane. At one point I ALMOST faxed in an order, but I am so so lucky I didn't, as I would have never been as satisfied, had I gone that route.

Then I went to OSH the year the RV-14 came out. Once I had a chance to sit in it, I knew that was a far more comfortable and better option for me. For a tall guy, it's a world of difference.

So, I built a 14A, which I really enjoy...and like I said, it's just big enough.

There are so many RV's out there now that it's crazy to build one without at least sitting in them to compare, and in pretty much every instance, the newer Van's kits are the more comfortable. For the people who like Tandem, the 8 beats the 4 in comfort. (Although some love the handling of the 4 more). People prefer the 7 over the 6 for comfort. Van's keeps making things better as they go, and I believe that as much as people love the 7/7A, if they flew in the 14/14A, many would see that as a pretty nice upgrade.
I'm just not sure what they can do to improve the -10's comfort, but hey, if they do another really nice 4-seater with upgrades, maybe I'll even check that out.

Don't make your decision based on what you see on paper, or what people tell you. Go experience them for yourself. It's too big an investment of your time and money to not be worth the research flight.
 
Also, a lot less motor options out there for the 14. It seems that there are IO-360s under every rock in comparison! I don't think I can burn mogas in the 390 either, right?

When consider engine options, don't lock the RV-14 into only the IO-390.
There are angle valve IO-360 engines that will work also (the prototype RV-14 tail dragger has one).
 
KC,

Don't even consider building one until you have flown in both, or at least flown in a 7.
I'm just under 6'2", and the RV-14 is JUST big enough for me to be comfortable.
When I went for my first RV ride, it was in a 6/6A. I was sold on the 6A before I went for the ride, but after the ride, I was actually disappointed in the cabin size, and realized a 2 seat plane of that size did not fit into my family plans and my flying goals. That ride saved me a lot of headache and heartache.

What Tim says is correct - it's all about how it fits *you*. I'm 6'5" and fit in my 6A very comfortably. But I built it that way. I've been in 7s where I've felt very cramped.

Which is another point - you will get to build it customized to fit you perfectly. In that respect, the space/size differences become probably not that big a deal and things like performance, handling, etc. become perhaps more important relatively speaking.
 
I apologize if this sort of thing has been asked before but I'm just looking for some clarification. I've been lurking here forever! I have been flying for almost 21 years now and have always wanted to build my own airplane. I finally came to the realization that there's probably never a good time to build a plane. You just have to do it. I recently ordered the plans for the RV-7 and am currently reorganizing my garage and acquiring the tools I need. I'll probably order an empennage kit after the new year. I was also looking at the RV-14. There's a lot fewer 14s flying than 7s. Also, a lot less motor options out there for the 14. It seems that there are IO-360s under every rock in comparison! I don't think I can burn mogas in the 390 either, right? It looks like the 7 is a little more agile and slightly faster. Personally, I want a great cross country plane that can do the occasional loop or roll.

I'm 6'1" tall and about 215 pounds. My wife is also 6'1" tall and quite a bit thinner. HA! She doesn't like flying as much as I do and I'd probably be solo most of the time. I'm retired from the Air Force where I started out as an aircraft mechanic for the first nine years and then I was a flight engineer for the last 11. I work for Boeing now. Airplanes are no stranger to me and I have thousands of flight hours. I definitely miss all of the flying though and need my own plane! I'm pretty set on the 7 and I realize I'm posting in the RV-7 forum. I just need some enablers to give me that final push over the edge into the 7 instead of the 14!
KC10Chief,
I am not going to get into discussing the 7 vs the 14. After all I am flying a far superior 9A. :p

No seriously though, since you are in the OKC area I will ask, have you been going to any of the EAA chapter meetings and discussing with local RVers? There are three EAA chapters in the OKC area (24, 1098, UL98). Each of them have RV pilots in them. There are several 7/7A pilots around. I also know personally of three RV14/14A builders in the OKC area. One just received his FAA sign off and will be flying very soon. Feel free to contact me if you are interested in talking with some local builders and pilots.
 
6a mods

What Tim says is correct - it's all about how it fits *you*. I'm 6'5" and fit in my 6A very comfortably. But I built it that way. I've been in 7s where I've felt very cramped.

Which is another point - you will get to build it customized to fit you perfectly. In that respect, the space/size differences become probably not that big a deal and things like performance, handling, etc. become perhaps more important relatively speaking.

Please expand on what you did to get more comfort in your beautiful 6a.
I would love to talk to you about the mods if possible. Call me at 303-772- two two zero two or email a number to [email protected] so I can call you.

Thanks,
Dave
 
Wow! Thanks for all of the replies! I'm going to order a set of the RV-14 plans as well. Building either one would not be a problem for me. I have tons of maintenance and flying experience. Lots of sheet metal experience as well. Still, the idea of being able to put my plane together in a year or two vs. 5 or more years, is also appealing. I haven't been to any EAA meetings or anything like that. I just haven't had time until recently. I was stationed in Alaska for almost five years. I flew GA up there several times a week. I moved to Oklahoma in 2013 and haven't flown any GA since. I was flying for the Air Force more than I cared to do. HA! I just retired from the Air Force a month ago. I was deployed twice in the last year and traveling pretty regularly in between those times and then just flying local sorties the rest of the time. Then I retired and suddenly have all of this time! I was very fortunate to be offered an excellent job with Boeing the day after I retired and it's great! I didn't have to move, I get paid a lot more and only have to work 40 hours a week! I'll be looking into going to some EAA meeting real soon and looking into contacting some local RV builders!

I probably wouldn't do much aerobatics in my RV. Loops, rolls and that's about it. It may sound silly to be thinking this far ahead but I'd really love to fly around the world someday. I think that the flying would be the easiest part of a trip like that. All of the bureaucracy would be the worst part. If not around the world, then at least fly in to Europe or Iceland someday.
 
For me the biggest factor was money. A -7 is pushing me financially, especially now with a toddler and my wife's medical stuff; the - 14 was simply out of the picture. I'd helped my dad build a -6 and have a fair amount of time in it so the -7 was a known quantity.
 
Wow! Thanks for all of the replies! I'm going to order a set of the RV-14 plans as well. Building either one would not be a problem for me. I have tons of maintenance and flying experience. Lots of sheet metal experience as well. ...

You may not need to order the plans, just take a look at Van's web site and download the pdfs. http://vansaircraft.com/public/service-rv14.htm. They are the updates to the plans and I'm not sure if every section is there, but it should give you a very good feel for the detail.
 
If you?re serious about intercontinental trips, the -14 has more interior room, more load carrying ability, for an internal gas tank.
BTW, thank you for your service.
 
I'm a little biased because I've flown my -9A for about 200 amazing hours, but when I sat in the demo RV-14 at Oshkosh, it just looked/felt too bulky. And some of the cabin width gain is offset by the canopy linkage that intrudes on elbow room. (This may be the same for 7/9 tip-ups; I'm not sure.) I HAD to have a slider canopy, so that ruled out the 14 entirely.

Everyone has a different take on how much room is enough, but at 6'3" and 195 lb., I'm plenty comfortable in the -9 (which is essentially a -7 fuselage as far as dimensions go). Flew to Osh with a friend an inch taller and 50 lb. heavier and I never felt cramped.

Another nice thing about the 7/9 fuselage is its lack of a prominent center tunnel. On a long cross country, it's nice to be able to stretch and extend your right leg all the way to the heater vents! I made sure to route throttle/mixture cables up nice and high so I wouldn't snag them with the tips of my big shoes (Thanks, Bruce Hill...routed mine just like yours. :) )
 
I'm going to order a set of the RV-14 plans as well. Building either one would not be a problem for me. I have tons of maintenance and flying experience. Lots of sheet metal experience as well. Still, the idea of being able to put my plane together in a year or two vs. 5 or more years, is also appealing. .

Congrats on your decision to build a -14. I'm sure it will meet your needs.

The build time is more a function of the priority the project has in your life than the characteristics of the kit. The comparative build time for each plane that you mention is too individualized to be accurate.

Realizing that the quick build kit option would really move my project along, I ordered one for my -7A. I built per plans with very few exceptions, installed VFR instrumentation, left it unpainted and flew it 21 months after starting the empennage kit. During the last month after getting my pink slip, I was not building as I prepped for a new job and completed RV transition training.

It has been an ongoing project as I upgraded to IFR instrumentation, improved the interior and got it painted in the 12 years since the first flight.

If you’re serious about intercontinental trips, the -14 has more interior room, more load carrying ability, for an internal gas tank.

Extra gas would be nice, but both planes have a 100 lbs. baggage weight capacity.


Good luck on your build. Just do something on it everyday to move it along.
 
Extra gas would be nice, but both planes have a 100 lbs. baggage weight capacity.

A better description would be both have the same baggage area weight limit but both don't have the same full fuel payload available.

Depending on finished empty weight (assuming the recommended gross weights are heeded) the typical RV-14 with a gross weight of 2050 lbs has more full fuel payload available than a typical RV-7 with a gross weight of 1800.

It is entirely possible for a couple of bigger sized occupants to add enough to the payload weight of an RV-7 to make using all of the 100 lb baggage allowance not possible regardless of where the C.G. position ends up. With an RV-14 that is much less likely.
 
If you're contemplating the A model I'd buy the RV14A just to get the more robust nose gear. The RV7A nosegear has proven to be very fragile.

The only issue with with the "nosegear" in the both the 7A and 14A is that it's in the wrong place:D ... Someone done missed up and moved it :p:rolleyes::p:rolleyes:
 
Another nice thing about the 7/9 fuselage is its lack of a prominent center tunnel. On a long cross country, it's nice to be able to stretch and extend your right leg all the way to the heater vents! I made sure to route throttle/mixture cables up nice and high so I wouldn't snag them with the tips of my big shoes (Thanks, Bruce Hill...routed mine just like yours. :) )

This is, for me, the most important point to make.

I'm 6'5" and 185lbs and I long assumed that the 14 would be a more comfortable fit, but when I sat in the demo plane at Oshkosh this summer I discovered that although there was more shoulder room (which would have been nice for the flight over to Osh with my 6'2" 215lb buddy), the center tunnel actually reduces leg room. On long cross country flights being able to stretch my legs out is an absolute must. I'm not sure if there's an easy mod to fix this issue, but that would be my first question before placing my order.
 
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