cross wind experience

I had a challenging return from SNF with rough air, head winds and cross wind landings. Demonstrated for the 12 is noted as 11 knots. I have exceeded that on quite a few occasions using the typical crab, slip technique and the last minute align to centerline 1,2,3 wheel touch down. Usually with a slight lateral landing gear stress that quickly falls off as you slow. On my final landing reporting was 18 knots gusting to 27 direct left cross wind. I fully expected a go around after a trial to another airport and reported that to heavy wing load traffic behind me on what to expect from a LSA. Did typical cross wind 45 crab and slip diagonal to runway but did not straighten to align, noting 44 knot airspeed and 20 ground around touch down. Soft and smooth with only drama to taxi in runway alignment with the cross wind. I was impressed with our plane's capability, kind of like a Cub landing. A blessing after getting tossed around for almost 6 hours. Much easier and less drama than with the last second align to runway drama. Was I just lucky or with our bird's great low speed performance and short landing capability is it better to maximize the wind to a head wind component to get a touch down at fast taxi speeds diagonal to the centerline? Thoughts, experiences, suggestions on best technique for our birds?

Basically, I do the same. I crab but then move to a slip about 100' above the touchdown point. If I can hold the centerline with the rudder, I can touch down with very little side strain on the gear. If the wind is too much for the rudder, then I crab into ground effect, straighten it out, and wheel land it.

I've also exceeded the cross wind component on many occasions. I won't say what the strongest CW component was because no one would believe me, but I swear on my grandchildren, it's true. When you fly a lot of cross country, you don't always get to pick runways into the wind.

One of my students once saw a dust devil and asked me, "What happens if we fly through it?" I replied, "I don't know. want to find out?" His look was rather fearful, and I Said if you don't know the outcome you are becoming a test pilot.

A proficient and professional pilot determined the aircraft limits. It is not wise to go beyond them.

I've occasionally had to land in crosswinds well above the POH limit too, and haven't found it too difficult. However crosswinds affect takeoffs as well as landings, and I've wondered if the POH limit is based more on taking off safely rather than landing.

RFSchaller said:

One of my students once saw a dust devil and asked me, "What happens if we fly through it?" I replied, "I don't know. want to find out?" His look was rather fearful, and I Said if you don't know the outcome you are becoming a test pilot.

Click to expand...

You definitely do not want to fly thru a dust devil. They are much more powerful than you'd ever imagine they could be.

Many years ago in my old Cherokee 140, one very hot summer day I was on short final and the air was very turbulent. Suddenly and abruptly, the airplane rolled to the right sharply. I instinctively gave it all the left bank the poor Cherokee could muster and punched the throttle to go around. After getting leveled off and climbing again in the go around, I saw what I'd encountered as it wandered off to the plowed field to the side of the runway where there was enought loose dirt for it to kick up and become visible... it was a small dust devil.

If such a little one did that to a PA28, I could easily see a bigger one roll a small airplane inverted... and if too close to the ground to recover, would kill you.

Xwind take offs are much more challenging than the landings. The right amount of brake vs rudder until full rudder authority kicks in is the touchiest part. The big tail is good for weathervaning. I will also admit to above POH xwind landings. It does take some practice so I don't recommend 21 knot direct crosswinds until you have experienced 8-10 knots. The controllability with flaperons helps at low speeds, but I think a faster approach helps counter the wind. Keep the wing low into the wind and fly it on the runway with ample speed for rudder control.

With my old 9A for the first couple hundred of hours I erroneously used to keep the nose wheel on the ground to higher speeds with cross winds in take off thinking it was keeping the plane in alignment. In reality with the castering nose wheel it made it worse. With the 12 lift the nose as soon as possible and you will be amazed at how little rudder you need to maintain alignment with a cross wind.

Things change

RFSchaller said:

One of my students once saw a dust devil and asked me, "What happens if we fly through it?" I replied, "I don't know. want to find out?" His look was rather fearful, and I Said if you don't know the outcome you are becoming a test pilot.

A proficient and professional pilot determined the aircraft limits. It is not wise to go beyond them.

Click to expand...

For years we had a crosswind limit of 29kts on the Boeing 767 and 757, someone realized we were diverting too many flight. After some study in the simulator our new crosswind limit is 40kts. Just last cycle at training we did 40kt SINGLE ENGINE landings.

Training and experience may change some limit during the life of the plane.

Cheers

Right you are Mike. Just got back from CQ. 40 kts, single engine in the -767.
Been there, done that.

Doug
-4, SEA area
wings

How do you land a 767 and a757 in a 40 kt direct cross wind without dragging an engine. Do you actually land them in a crab?

crosswind in a heavy

regarding landing a "heavy" in a crosswind, check out www.youtube.com/watch?v=itOj33yvLNo or just Google "767 crosswind landing tests" for some dramatic video. "the book" discusses touching down in a crab, sideslip (wing low), or de-crab during flare (sort of a combination of the first two) as three methods to handle a crosswind. The slide slip is the classic taildragger technique, fuselage aligned w/ centerline and upwind wing low, but risks snagging an engine pod or even the outboard flap and not recommended with more than 25kts. of crosswind. The airplane can be landed in the crab but is hard on the equipment (ref. the above video). Most use some form of the de-crab maneuver.

Doug
Seattle area
-4, wings

This winter in Old Blighty has been a challenge now and again.

This was an interesting morning in an A330.

METAR EGKK 270950Z 21018G33KT 3500 DZ BKN007 12/11 Q1009=

50? off runway with buildings to add to the mix.

As the other heavy correspondents have said, technique is pretty similar to the light stuff. keep the crab on and give it a hoof of rudder through about 30' with a dab of into wind aileron - pay attention day that was.

And before the Boing boys claim foul, fly by wire isn't doing anything in the flare and pretty much gives up during approach - you end up with short inputs to full deflection to help it.

On the light stuff, the main thing is try for a stable trajectory and to concentrate on stopping any drift on landing.

You can have great fun on a breezy day practising a 5' flight down the runway perfectly aligned with the centerline. Once that is mastered, the concerns of crosswind landings disappear.

re: "You can have great fun on a breezy day practising a 5' flight down the runway perfectly aligned with the centerline."

Thank-you Mike. Brought back fond memories of following the centerline at 3-5 feet AGL in a J-5 with the stick in my tummy and a crusty instructor yelling to use only the throttle and rudder. It WAS great fun and valuable lesson!

RFSchaller said:

One of my students once saw a dust devil and asked me, "What happens if we fly through it?" I replied, "I don't know. want to find out?" His look was rather fearful, and I Said if you don't know the outcome you are becoming a test pilot.

A proficient and professional pilot determined the aircraft limits. It is not wise to go beyond them.

Click to expand...

I have that experience. His look of fear has merit!

It was an extremely scary 20 seconds of my life that I never wish to experience again. I was actually on the ground at initiation of the take off when a dust devil rolled across my plane. It immediately lifted me off the ground just as I went to full power in a 172. I was airborne at 25 MPH, 20 feet off the ground with the right wing tip pointed straight down at the ground. The plane was traveling at a 45 deg angle toward the PAPI box on the left side of the runway.

I wrestled frantically with the controls with all my will in an attempt to get the wings level. As mentioned, this all took place in a span of 20 seconds or less. It felt like a lifetime! All I could see was the ground coming up in slow motion to meet that right wing tip. After a semblance of an eternity I was able to level the wings barely in time before the ground reached the wing tip. The plane plopped back down on its gear and I quickly pushed the brakes to stop what little forward movement there was. It was one of the scariest moments of my flying career, and it was literally less than 20 ft off the ground with little to no airspeed.

Those things may look small and harmless. We may contemplate ideas that they can be toyed with but I know for sure I will respect them enough to stay clear of them after this experience.

Steve,

In 1968 I was a 16 year old CAP cadet in Reno doing a solo training encampment (yeah, I'm old, get over it!). They beat into our heads that you never left the venerable Cessna 150 untied when it was on the ground. One day a guy pulled up to the gas pumps and didn't tie down. Along came a dust devil and flipped it on its back.

Rich