Air Force with an A&P

First off, nice to be back on the site after quite the hiatus, lets just say its been an interesting year! Just a disclaimer, this is not a RV related question, but I have always found comfort in confiding in my family of aviators just as much as anybody. I am currently in my first year of an Associates Degree in Aviation Maintenance, where I will also obtain an A&P license. Needless to say, I am absolutely LOVING every minute of it! I feel truly blessed to enjoy what I have been learning.....

As of late the option of the Air Force has been coming to mind. It is not something I have ever really run through the mill before until now, and am now curious as to what kind of opportunities already having an A&P before entering would present me. Whether that be higher ranking, more options, less training, or just the benefit of plain old experience, I do not know! I certainly do not want to talk to a recruiter at this time, I feel confident in asking you all. I appreciate any help I can get!

Not a veteran myself, but I know and work with lots of USAF maintainers. My guess is that you'd pretty much come in like everyone else unless you had some pretty extensive experience or certifications. USAF maintenance is pretty specialized, so you generally only work on one or two systems (hydraulics, engines, structures or avionics) as opposed to touching everything like you might do with GA aircraft.

If I was going to be an enlisted maintainer, I'd do it in the Navy; USAF maintainers can get sent to some really really terrible places.... Most naval bases are in places better than Clovis, NM...

AP

Clovis may not be NYC, but the problem with the Navy is that their airports are mobile, and move on water, and stay away from home for 6+ months. Clovis wouldn't be too bad in comparison!!!! See the world on vacation. 20+ years in AF--great career. Military has a great GI bill for education also. IMHO

gtmule said:

If I was going to be an enlisted maintainer, I'd do it in the Navy; USAF maintainers can get sent to some really really terrible places.... Most naval bases are in places better than Clovis, NM...

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How about a ship for 6 months at a time with 5000 of your closest friends?

...Says the guy who retired at Hurlburt or Eglin.

Certainly spending time on the boat would be different, but lots of Navy maintainers work on land their whole career, but if it was me at 20 years old, the boat beats Clovis...

RPorter said:

First off, nice to be back on the site after quite the hiatus, lets just say its been an interesting year! Just a disclaimer, this is not a RV related question, but I have always found comfort in confiding in my family of aviators just as much as anybody. I am currently in my first year of an Associates Degree in Aviation Maintenance, where I will also obtain an A&P license. Needless to say, I am absolutely LOVING every minute of it! I feel truly blessed to enjoy what I have been learning.....

As of late the option of the Air Force has been coming to mind. It is not something I have ever really run through the mill before until now, and am now curious as to what kind of opportunities already having an A&P before entering would present me. Whether that be higher ranking, more options, less training, or just the benefit of plain old experience, I do not know! I certainly do not want to talk to a recruiter at this time, I feel confident in asking you all. I appreciate any help I can get!

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Having an associates degree will get you a few stripes (probably enter as an E-3), not sure about the A&P but my guess would be no increase in rank. As far as the training is concerned you will go through the same training as everyone else, the air force likes to keep things standardized. The A&P will be a good bargaining tool with the recruiter, that is when you should choose what specialty you will go into.

You might want to look into some guard or reserve units near you, they might have some opportunities as well. PM me if you have more specific questions. Good luck!

I'd highly recommend looking at the ANG. Active Duty will want to move you around a bit enevitably. ANG keeps you in your home state unless deployed which a lot of times (not always) is up to you. Some great benefits and amazing people.

An Associates will get you E3 during enlistment, but the A&P won't get you any additional strips or pay unfortunately. You'll have some good experience but you'll go to the same Tech school as anyone else with a particular air frame maint AFSC.

As an old Army personnel officer, the A & P rating used to give you absolutely nothing. Of course I retired in 1976, so things may have changed.

As a retired Navy guy, twenty years without seeing a boat isn't impossible.

As others have said, the associates will help gain a little money, the A&P will not. In fact, I would say that the way the military does maintenance is quite a bit different than your A&P will teach you. There are similarities, but differences as well. You'll have to learn the military way of doing things.

As far as AF vs Navy... The AF is VERY specialized from person to person. If you wind up working hydraulics, you'll work hydraulics.

The Navy is quite a bit more generic when if comes to their maintenance personnel. You'll definitely train to fill one role, but will be cross trained to do a lot of different work on the aircraft.

I enlisted as an Avionics Technician. Started out doing box level repair of Comm/Nav radios, moved to line service of P-3's, and moved to in-flight avionics of the E-6B. Then trained as a Flight Engineer for the E-6B, where I learned all the airframe and powerplant systems operations and maintenance.

Never would have had all those opportunities in the AF.

I spent 5 years in the Navy as an airframes mechanic. I learned the basic airframes course in Millington Tn. After that you go to a training squadron where you are taught a specific aircraft systems. Mine being the S-3A Viking. My first fleet suaqdron had 4 different a/c, so I had to learn how to work on US-3A's, C-130's, CT-39's, and C-2A Greyhounds. We worked on everything except engines and avionics. Everything else was fair game. My only regret was not using my training to get my A&P once I got out.

majuro15 said:

I'd highly recommend looking at the ANG. Active Duty will want to move you around a bit enevitably. ANG keeps you in your home state unless deployed which a lot of times (not always) is up to you. Some great benefits and amazing people.

An Associates will get you E3 during enlistment, but the A&P won't get you any additional strips or pay unfortunately. You'll have some good experience but you'll go to the same Tech school as anyone else with a particular air frame maint AFSC.

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This is SPOT ON. Look into the ANG/AFR and get the best of both worlds. AF "job" with little/no relocating during your career. I did 30yrs between AF active duty, ANG and AF Reserves and am so glad I did.

The military experience will serve as qualification for an A&P, if you didn't already have one. You could then take the tests and get the tickets. So in a sense you'd be duplicating the training.

Dave

Even that is far harder then it used to be. I was checking for my grandson who is on the way to Chinook school. Very little gained from specialized military training.

acam37 said:

I spent 5 years in the Navy as an airframes mechanic. I learned the basic airframes course in Millington Tn. After that you go to a training squadron where you are taught a specific aircraft systems. Mine being the S-3A Viking. My first fleet suaqdron had 4 different a/c, so I had to learn how to work on US-3A's, C-130's, CT-39's, and C-2A Greyhounds. We worked on everything except engines and avionics. Everything else was fair game. My only regret was not using my training to get my A&P once I got out.

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good experience

I did 4 years enlisted in the air force and it was the best thing I ever did... this is why,

I did one year of Junior college and ran out of money and interest. I floundered around for another year working construction and other jobs. I could see that I had no experience, little focus, and no resume.

I took the aptitude test and scored high in all areas except admin. I had been flying and around airplanes since I was a little kid and I knew I would stay interested if I could be around airplanes.

First off, the basic training made me grow up and learn to be responsible. It taught me discipline and fortitude..

I went to crew chief tech school... I already knew as much as most A&Ps but now I had to suceed in an accelerated training environment. I was assigned to an F-4E wing and the training continued on that specific airplane. I was assigned to the phase inspection team... I really learned alot there. I took the tests for the A&P too.

The biggest benefit was I had an opportunity to excel. I was airman of the month several times and was runner up for airman of the year. I made two below the zone promotions and made staff sgt and sewed it on in the minimun time in service. I went to NCO management training and I was given responsibility.

When I seperated, all these things I mentioned made an impressive resume for a 24 year old kid. I had done something, I had proven I could follow directions, I could be in charge of something and get the job done, I could manage personel.

My point is, getting an A&P is great but so is getting the experience, working with motivated mission oriented people, being part of a team, and the satisfaction of knowing I served my country. Taking the oath was one of the proudest moments of my life. Seeing my daughter take the oath was even a prouder moment.

good luck in what ever you do.

Chris M

Christopher Murphy said:

I did 4 years enlisted in the air force and it was the best thing I ever did... this is why,

I did one year of Junior college and ran out of money and interest. I floundered around for another year working construction and other jobs. I could see that I had no experience, little focus, and no resume.

I took the aptitude test and scored high in all areas except admin. I had been flying and around airplanes since I was a little kid and I knew I would stay interested if I could be around airplanes.

First off, the basic training made me grow up and learn to be responsible. It taught me discipline and fortitude..

I went to crew chief tech school... I already knew as much as most A&Ps but now I had to suceed in an accelerated training environment. I was assigned to an F-4E wing and the training continued on that specific airplane. I was assigned to the phase inspection team... I really learned alot there. I took the tests for the A&P too.

The biggest benefit was I had an opportunity to excel. I was airman of the month several times and was runner up for airman of the year. I made two below the zone promotions and made staff sgt and sewed it on in the minimun time in service. I went to NCO management training and I was given responsibility.

When I seperated, all these things I mentioned made an impressive resume for a 24 year old kid. I had done something, I had proven I could follow directions, I could be in charge of something and get the job done, I could manage personel.

My point is, getting an A&P is great but so is getting the experience, working with motivated mission oriented people, being part of a team, and the satisfaction of knowing I served my country. Taking the oath was one of the proudest moments of my life. Seeing my daughter take the oath was even a prouder moment.

good luck in what ever you do.

Chris M

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I did 5 years in the Army but the above very closely describes my experience from ages 20 to 25. I ended up in a special ops unit after a yr tour in S. Korea with most of my time as a Blackhawk crewchief. Did all but heavy maintenance and avionics repairs (though I always was involved with anything done to my bird). Those that were not fit for flying did the heavier maintenance (e.g. 500 hr insp).

I got my A&P tickets based on my experience in the military and later completed the A&P after working for Lockheed Martin at the same base in Savannah, GA where I had served in the Army.

The military is a great way to get a start in life and you will make friends for life that you can call anytime, anywhere and they will show up with beer and a smile and whatever else you need.

A&P in military

The SC ANAG is looking for A&P candidates now here in Greenville SC to work on the "certified" helos (I think they are Lacotas (sp?) They have some military trained techs but none with A&P The fact that they are actually FAA certified makes a difference I guess. I went to Greenville Tec for my training and the SCANG people made a presentation us looking for techs. Currently Greenville TEC is building a new training facility to train both the military guys and regular students for their A&P. UP state SC is a great place to live.
Tyler

DonFromTX said:

... Very little gained from specialized military training.

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Idunno... I built a very successful and lucrative career out of my time as a jet engine mechanic in the Air Force. During my 10 years in the service I earned my A&P, built relationships with the civilian airframe technical representatives, and proved my worth as a maintainer. Based directly on that experience, I was hired by the company as a technical representative and assigned to the NASA ER-2 contract. Eventually I earned a BS in Aviation Maintenance Management, and worked my way up from maintainer to manager, then out of NASA and back to the main plant, where I'm now an engineer, working government contracts. The past 17 years with the company would not have happened without my military experience.

Pretty good for a knuckle dragging Jet Troop.

DonFromTX said:

Even that is far harder then it used to be. I was checking for my grandson who is on the way to Chinook school. Very little gained from specialized military training.

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My son-in-law is currently a Chinook mechanic with the Georgia Army National Guard but his real job is as an apprentice airplane mechanic with Palmetto Aviation Repair in KSSI working towards his A&P. He feels he got the job based on his aviation maintenance knowledge and experience with the Army. This is definitely a viable option for a young person just starting out.

26 Years as an Air Force Maintainer

Ross,
A&P will have absolutely no benefit in the Air Force, but make sure you have it by the time you get out. Depending on whether or not they need people in maintenance AFSC's (Air Force Specialty Code, just like MOS for the Army) the Associates Degree may or may not earn you an extra stripe or two after Basic Training. The AF will train you to do their maintenance their way. You will probably never see a Magneto, Recip Engine, Wooden Spar, or Fabric covering. If you are in an aircraft maintenance AFSC that time and experience will count toward your A&P requirements. The only thing to remember is that if you really want to go into Aircraft Maintenance you must get that "IN WRITING" before you get to the MEPS station. It is still possible to score well on your ASVAB and end up in a career field you don't want to be in if you go in as an 'Open General.' (Then they will allow you to pick the career field that they want you to be in).

As mentioned by others if you can go in as Reserve or Guard your home life will be much more stable, however, if getting away from home is more appealing then going Active Duty may be more desirable. Personally, the travel was one of the most appealing things for me. I was paid by the Government to live in Spain, Italy, Japan, Korea, Iceland, Germany, Virginia, Washington State, North Carolina, Florida, Nevada, California and even Hawaii . During the 8 years our family spent at RAF Lakenheath we became very familiar with England, Scotland, Wales and even took a few trips to Ireland and the "continent." Also, being AFR or AFANG you will be limited to the aircraft assigned to your unit. I managed to work on C-130E, C-141A/B, every variant of the F-15 (including the ASAT and even the ACTIVE once) and the F-22A. I also worked many planes as they transited our location. C-5's, C-135's, F-4's, a few Chinooks and Huey's etc. and even President Reagan's Limo when he visited Iceland. (I only got to hold the flashlight, but I still count it.)

The AF really is a tremendous opportunity, but make sure that you go in with your eyes open. There will also be tremendous possibilities after the Air Force is you take advantage of the many opportunities that will be afforded to you while you are in.

MercFE said:

I enlisted as an Avionics Technician. Started out doing box level repair of Comm/Nav radios, moved to line service of P-3's, and moved to in-flight avionics of the E-6B. Then trained as a Flight Engineer for the E-6B, where I learned all the airframe and powerplant systems operations and maintenance.

Never would have had all those opportunities in the AF.

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Yes, you would have. I know because I did.

I entered the Air Force after getting my BS degree. A failed Class 1 Flight Physical (No OTS openings except for Pilots and NAVs) and an un-sympatric Draft Board put me in the enlisted ranks. Did heavy jet maintenance for a while. Then the inspection docks on C-141's. Ended up being the supervisor on night shift and made rank at the minimum time in grade. Heard I could fly as an engineer with a third class physical so I joined the Reserves as an FEX. And managed to get my A&P, the PPL, and the FAA engineers ticket.

Nothing against the Active Duty but the Reserves or the ANG seems to offer the best options to proceed. The Reserves worked for me and the ANG has worked for my son. The ANG throws money at the members to pursue additional education opportunities. Yes, he?s been deployed three times and I spend a year or so ?down range? myself. But overall it was worth it to both of us.

1flyer said:

Yes, you would have. I know because I did.

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Guess I should have phrased it better... Plenty of opportunities in the AF. It was the breadth of knowledge that is a different in the Navy.

Being in E-6Bs, I lived the Air Force life style. The Navy really didn't understand the whole STRATCOM mentality, so most of our alert time was spent amongst Air Force. And being stationed at Tinker AFB, drives it home even more.

All of the AF maintainers that I've had the pleasure to work with were VERY specialized. I would spend hours having the find the one person that could be able to help with my support question.

Army has a high school to flight school program.

Talk to the recruiters but don't sign anything before getting anything promised in writing.

Recruiters are always under a lot of pressure.

Worked for me, 20 yrs in the Navy, 10 years with the Army.

I should have said that differently. My baby brother did his 20year AF career, then was immediately hired by the FAA, where he has had a remarkable career there as well. No special education or background to enter the AF, just another knuckle dragger. He did get a private pilot rating from a military flying club along the way, that helped him to get to the FAA I think maybe.

Toobuilder said:

Idunno... I built a very successful and lucrative career out of my time as a jet engine mechanic in the Air Force. During my 10 years in the service I earned my A&P, built relationships with the civilian airframe technical representatives, and proved my worth as a maintainer. Based directly on that experience, I was hired by the company as a technical representative and assigned to the NASA ER-2 contract. Eventually I earned a BS in Aviation Maintenance Management, and worked my way up from maintainer to manager, then out of NASA and back to the main plant, where I'm now an engineer, working government contracts. The past 17 years with the company would not have happened without my military experience.

Pretty good for a knuckle dragging Jet Troop.

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As a contractor engineer on AF bases, I've frequently had to get the Metals Tech (machine shop) guys to drill out a stripped SCREW but Sheet Metal guys to drill out the rivet one hole over....

I imagine that wouldn't be the case in the Navy.

Do you want to be a pilot?

I was an enlisted Air Force maintainer. The biggest thing I learned was the value of an education. In general being an officer is usually much better.

Fixing planes is good, but if you want to fly, I would join the Army and get through flight school while you are still young enough. If you have an associate?s degree you can fly helicopter in the Army.

If you want to stay put, join the AF. If you want to travel, join the Navy.

Thank you so much for the input everyone! From what I've gathered I really need to be careful as to how I approach this, as I do want to keep a somewhat stable life at home, and do want to go ahead and finish A&P school. The avionics and troubleshooting side of things has really clicked with me well so far in school, so that may be something I would like to specialize in. Looking more toward the reserves or guard after reading most of this. Once again, its just another option I have decided to put out on the table, and still have a year or so to think about it. Not to get too deep, but I think my biggest issue is that I really do think I feel a "calling" of sorts to serve but at the same time have a very hard time seeing myself thriving in that position..........