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  #61  
Old 10-03-2014, 05:38 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
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Location: Livermore, CA
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Dave,

I think it's just how you pay yourself for your time. $110/hr? for working on a hobby? I built my own intercom because it was fun; if I charged myself $110/hr then I have the world's most expensive audio panel!!

Also, my insurance will pay a shop the going rate for repairs following an accident. OR, I can fix it myself, and they will pay me $15/hr. (!) Different perspective from yours on what my time is worth.
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  #62  
Old 10-03-2014, 07:11 PM
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Mike S Mike S is offline
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Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV10inOz View Post
OK, if thats what floats your boat. Fill ya boots!

But can you answer my question?

Just in addition to that, as Vic pointed out with the extra hours he had invested in the SB compliance, whether it is Vic's travel time or the contractor's, it has a cost. And if one is truly honest with their maths, it has to be costed at a reasonable rate too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTurner View Post
Dave,

I think it's just how you pay yourself for your time. $110/hr? for working on a hobby? I built my own intercom because it was fun; if I charged myself $110/hr then I have the world's most expensive audio panel!!

Also, my insurance will pay a shop the going rate for repairs following an accident. OR, I can fix it myself, and they will pay me $15/hr. (!) Different perspective from yours on what my time is worth.
Bob said it very well, it is how I "pay" myself.

Of course there is some cost involved-------just most likely not as high as the professional would charge as in your example. In my personal case, my time is free= $0.00/hr.

By the way--------"fill ya boots"??? Not a term I am familiar with.

Besides, I dont wear boots--------my Birkenstocks let stuff drain out pretty easily

Mushrooms and............oh, never mind.
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Mike Starkey
VAF 909

Rv-10, N210LM.

Flying as of 12/4/2010

Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011

Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.

"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
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  #63  
Old 10-04-2014, 10:36 PM
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RV10inOz RV10inOz is offline
 
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Fill ya boots, is a Go right ahead, have some fun. Its a friendly yeah go for it expression. Let's say you have some oranges in a big cart on your driveway to give away to the neighbours, you say ..help yourself, fill ya boots!
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  #64  
Old 10-04-2014, 10:46 PM
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RV10inOz RV10inOz is offline
 
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Bob,

sure is different, if you are retired and are just doing it all for fun.

Many of us work, run businesses, sit on boards of associations (free of charge) like the EAA for example (they might even get paid) and that is all time taken away from either family or business.

So when some of us, (maybe lots) are doing an annual inspection, avionics upgrade or complying with a SB, it is not free time, especially when it is during the week so the plane is airworthy to fly again for either business of voluntary association work.

Different story to Sunday afternoon washing or tinkering in the hangar. 30 hours of SB work is not the fun of building an audio panel. Therefore I see it has a real cost. Others don't.

Do not think for a minute I am criticising Vans for a costly SB. I have no such thoughts. It was reasonable and fair. Just another day in GA.
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  #65  
Old 10-05-2014, 10:43 AM
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MauleDriver MauleDriver is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lake Ridge Aero Park - Durham NC
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My plate was cracked and I'm almost finished with the SB. Since finishing my project 3 years ago, I've been retired and maintaining my '10 as required.

I have <$100 spent on the work plus more hours of my own time than I care to count. It hasn't been fun work but I built the '10 to spend personal time in and on so I could possibly account for the time as income.

I planned to start my condition inspection at the end of September and complete it by now but as soon as I saw the cracks, removal of the engine began.

Once the engine and mount were off and cleaned up, I called a neighbor who acted as my Tech Advisor during construction to inspect and advise. I knew he was an experienced aircraft welder and restorer and hoped he would offer to do the welding. He took the time to understand the SB and the job, explained to me how the frame and the plate had to be prepared and worked to ensure a high quality weld. I stripped the paint, did some grinding and otherwise got intimate with it all.

However my meticulous neighbor indicated that his TIG welder needed factory adjustment because "it wouldn't hold a steady spark". Instead, he suggested that another neighbor be engaged and told me that he would take the job over to him and tell him what needed to be done.

He did that and I went over to 'watch' the actual welding and to act as an intelligent work holder. The actual welding took 15-20 mins with the only glitch being contamination from the oil inside the frame.

The welder then suggested I have the whole mount blasted and powder coated by a guy up the road who does reasonable work. He then showed me an example of another engine mount.

It turned out to be Atlantic Refinishers of Creedmoor NC. I met the owner at the shop door and he said he'd do it in 3 days for $80 but he couldn't match my color. Gray would be fine.

I've reinstalled the mount, the nose gear and the engine using the old hardware and elastomers. None of it was broke, all was within service limits (2 washers), and all of it is easily replaced with new at any time.

So far it's cost me $80 + 2nd day air of the SB + cotter pins and a whole lot of not so enjoyable hours. I'm slow and careful but have to admit it is satisfying getting it back together. And maybe I've cured a persistent but unidentified minor oil leak(s) I've had since Phase 1. Heading back out in few minutes to do sensor wiring.

Some random notes:
The original problem is a small design oversight. Rough fields combined with play in the shock assembly slowly crack the assembly. My guess is that all installations will eventually crack without the SB though it may exceed the life of the aircraft. Keep the play out and apply the SB as writter, no problems.

Pulling the engine without detaching the mount to do the work could save some $$$ in contracted out work. For the home maintainer you are not saving anything and just making things more difficult IMHO.

An earlier experience with a second hanging of the engine suggested that keeping the prop mounted made rehanging the engine much more difficult. Impossible for me, but that may have just been me. It also may mean that keeping the engine attached to the mount for the SB work, and keeping the prop mounted, does in fact make things a bit easier but I don't know.

RV10inOZ is telling it like it is. For the hobbyist like me whose consumption of personal time is close to costless or even rewarding, experimental maintenance can be cheaper than the car I won't work on.

Living on an airpark with talented neighbors is fantastic. I had 3 welders available. My retired next door neighbor who has a well used TIG outfit lacked aircraft quality skills. My other neighbors are highly skilled and experienced and retired as well. I just hope to be able to return the favors going forward.
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  #66  
Old 10-05-2014, 12:26 PM
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Mike S Mike S is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV10inOz View Post


Fill ya boots, is a Go right ahead, have some fun. Its a friendly yeah go for it expression. Let's say you have some oranges in a big cart on your driveway to give away to the neighbours, you say ..help yourself, fill ya boots!
Actually, it would be a cart of apples where I live----------looks like this has come full circle then, apples/oranges is where this started....................

http://www.applehill.com/
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Mike Starkey
VAF 909

Rv-10, N210LM.

Flying as of 12/4/2010

Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011

Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.

"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
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  #67  
Old 10-06-2014, 06:10 AM
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RV10inOz RV10inOz is offline
 
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Mr Maule Driver,
Quote:
RV10inOZ is telling it like it is. For the hobbyist like me whose consumption of personal time is close to costless or even rewarding, experimental maintenance can be cheaper than the car I won't work on.
Yes it is rewarding, even when its costly. These planes are seriously good machines. Compared to a Cirrus or Beech they are very good at delivering the goods. No need to explain that here

Even with a SB or two they represent great value.
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  #68  
Old 10-07-2014, 03:21 PM
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flion flion is offline
 
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Location: Flagstaff, AZ
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Ok, as an aside from the semantic jousting (all in fun) and the people doing field repairs, here is my progress on the service bulletin. Since I had the mount off anyway (doing firewall installations), it was a fairly simple matter to simply remove the nose gear. To get the compression necessary to remove the strut (since I didn't have the weight of the airframe), I used ratcheting straps carefully positioned on the motor mount and nose gear. I actually had to wait a few days for the doubler, which I then took to a local welder. They let me pick it up today (cost: $45US) and it is already at a powdercoating shop, which will cost a bit more. A bit of time and trouble but I won't worry about 1) the plate moving and damaging mount tubes or 2) corrosion (the powder coat guy is good and makes sure gaps are filled, not covered). Below is a picture of what it looked like when I picked it up today.



Update: Here is the mount after powder coat. Looks like it could have come from Van's this way. The cost to completely strip the part and re-coat it was about $220, but worth it for the piece of mind.



Update again: Here is how I reinstalled the nose gear with the mount off the airframe using ratcheting straps. Only the two short straps are showing but I also used two longer straps from the top mount points to the front of the gear leg. The longer straps had more leverage and did most of the work; using four was mostly to distribute the load and increase the safety factor should a strap fail.

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Last edited by flion : 10-31-2014 at 09:41 AM. Reason: And adding yet another picture.
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  #69  
Old 10-21-2014, 02:18 PM
PabloJ3 PabloJ3 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Abington, MA
Posts: 10
Default Use die penetrant?

By you guys experience, using a die penetrant inspection kit is worth it?

Where to get one?
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  #70  
Old 10-21-2014, 08:11 PM
aerhed aerhed is offline
 
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Location: Big Sandy, WY
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N145RV got the SB yesterday. Only 200+ hours. Mount was powder coated hammered gray and the elastomer plate was still shiny powder coat without even any witness marks.
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