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Winter Flying In The RV-12

Geico266

Well Known Member
Just thought I would start a thread about cold weather flying for those of you pounding (pulling :eek:) rivets to give you some encouragement.

Yesterday was 25f and I flew 2 missions. One in the morning and one in the evening for a total of 4 hours. The hot water heat is amazing after installing the John BenderBaffel a few years ago. It restricts the airflow to allow the water temp (cylinder head temp) to remain around 210f . The heater works incredibly well and I have flown in -7f temps very comfortably.

After a big snow storm a few days ago, yesterday was a weird weather day. Temps at 3,000' were 55f. :eek: Making all my cold weather prep a waste of time. :cool:

Temps down low were in the 30's. It is amazing how responsive and smooth the air is when it is this cold. The air is so thick and NO BUGS!

I had to get use to bleeding off airspeed in the pattern so I didn't float for a mile down the runway. A little slipping and I hit the numbers. The air is really thick in ground effect.

A very nice day for flying.... after shoveling a 3' snow drift away from the hangar door. :cool:

Keep up the work! Get those -12's in the air! Good times await!
 
I am getting the idea that a 12 only works for local flights only. Never has anyone actually done a cross country and came to visit me:mad:
 
Thanks Larry - -

yes the 'Heater-Damper-Door' system does work very well. I just don't like getting out when it is below about 25 degrees. Yes, I have experienced the temp differences also. Sometime much warmer at ALT if a southerly breeze. Some colder days, visibility is better. I don't think I have missed an entire month even thru snowy, cold spells.

John Bender
487 hours
 
yes the 'Heater-Damper-Door' system does work very well. I just don't like getting out when it is below about 25 degrees. Yes, I have experienced the temp differences also. Sometime much warmer at ALT if a southerly breeze. Some colder days, visibility is better. I don't think I have missed an entire month even thru snowy, cold spells.

John Bender
487 hours

What's very nice about the "Bender Baffle" is it is adjustable in flight. Taking off temps were 25f, at altitude is was 55f. If the baffle was not adjustable I would have had temps too hot. Nice work John!
 
Cold flying

What's very nice about the "Bender Baffle" is it is adjustable in flight. Taking off temps were 25f, at altitude is was 55f. If the baffle was not adjustable I would have had temps too hot. Nice work John!

Larry I agree the baffle is very nice to adj in flight and works nice. Dave Farmer(aka Plowboy) helped with my mod.

I also installed a shutter in front of the oil cooler allowing inflight adjustment also. The oat was -1 and flying without a coat. :D

I can really fine tune the temp and cabin heat as needed. Warm up in a few min and then keeping the temps in the range as needed

Everyone have a happy holiday :)
 
Hey Dave - -

I can certainly see how the oil door air control would work same as the Heater Damper Door. Do you find you need to adjust it much ? I still am very happy with the oil therm, and it works well year around. I installed the 205 degree Thermostasis, and I have no moisture in my system. It really speeds up warm-up time. Even works well in the summer. If it is 80 - 90 degrees air temp, it still cuts the time to get to 122 degrees. I also installed the Reiff Pre-Heat, and our airport does not charge us for small amounts of electrical usage, so we plug ours in all the time during the winter. My entire engine compartment is about 90 - 95 all the time. That helps with moisture also for sure.

John Bender
 
Got 2 spare rooms! Leave your jacket at home, 78 now, will make 85 today, but I have air conditioning. Save some baggage room, orange and grapefruit trees are loaded with ripe fruit!

Do you have a spare room? I might come down for the winter. ;)
 
Larry, Where do I get info on the John Bender winter baffle?
Dale Walker

Dale, Here is a link for the mod for the radator - http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=54506&highlight=Real+Heat

John, I had the oil temp bypass on the Rotax before I installed it in my 12, but I chose not to use it since my RV12 EAB was going to weight in a little heaver than the standard ELSA version.

shutter 4.jpg


Shutter works great, I don't need to regulate it much - fully closed for warm up, then partially open for climb out, and then a slight adj during flight. There seams to be plenty of room to adj the temps in flight.

I will most likely remove it when we hit spring and summer temps.
 
You mid-western guys are a pretty humble bunch, seems no one will own up to it. I praised Marty for it and he passed the buck to John and I don't recall who he blamed it on. It's a must have if you fly in cold weather at all. The oil cooler damper is a real fuel saver. The one I am using works very well and can be used all year long. Dave Valcek's modification is more functional in that it allows the oil temp to be dialed in in the same manner as the Radiator damper. We are thinking that if he flew into a milder climate, it would have to be removed prior to arriving in that climate. Where we live they are very nice to have! Merry Christmas to all!
 
You mid-western guys are a pretty humble bunch, seems no one will own up to it.

If there are royalties involved I invented it. :D


;)


I went up again this afternoon for an hour. Ground temps were 16f, temps aloft 40f. Visibility was 5-6 miles due to heavy haze. Scoped out my favorite deer watching area and saw 300 white tails bunched up like turkeys. Winter is setting in pretty hard around here with 4-6" of snow cover to hide food for them.
 
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Thanks Dave - -

makes sense. Originally I was worried about having to adjust the Heater Damper Door a lot, but actually I find I don't have to. If I am just bumming around ( as usual ), I fly at about the same ALT, so I don't have to adjust it much at all. Just watch the temps on take-off, and adjust it a little for the days temps, and it works well. Sure makes it an all season plane. Any day it is not too windy, I go for a flight.

John Bender
487 hours
 
Heater temp

I take it that the baffle is for the oil cooler adjustments. Is there something that would make the cabin heater work better? I just get fast moving air that is not very warm.

Richard
 
The damper we are really speaking of is for the coolant radiator and allows you to dial in the temp. in the cockpit. You can find this little marvel up in the modifications thread.
 
Humility

Dave. Before I forget...you are oh so wrong in telling that group they are a humble bunch of midwesterners. In other less formal gatherings they wear robes, chant and perform serious chest-thumping. In other words, they are normal American pilots.
 
Guys I figure I will ask this thread since it appears to be related.. how cold is too cold to fly? I don't mean being comfortable in the cockpit but rather for the Rotax and the carbs. I ask this because a friend and CFI was flying a Rotax powered low wing two winters ago. She took off when it was about -5 ambient temp in Denver. The wind chill dropped it below that. She took off, went once around the pattern and did a low approach over the runway. A bit more than halfway down the runway the engine quit. She was able to get it onto the runway and stopped. The A&P suggested that the severe cold weather contributed to the carbs inability to properly operate. There was no other mechanical issue found.

Not trying to derail the discussion but I am curious how cold others are flying their RV-12's? Living here in CO, we get our share of colder days. I like the rest of you love to fly in the colder air in the winter in my Rotax powered Gobosh while trying to endure the temps to continue the build.

Carl
 
Guys I figure I will ask this thread since it appears to be related.. how cold is too cold to fly? I don't mean being comfortable in the cockpit but rather for the Rotax and the carbs. I ask this because a friend and CFI was flying a Rotax powered low wing two winters ago. She took off when it was about -5 ambient temp in Denver. The wind chill dropped it below that. She took off, went once around the pattern and did a low approach over the runway. A bit more than halfway down the runway the engine quit. She was able to get it onto the runway and stopped. The A&P suggested that the severe cold weather contributed to the carbs inability to properly operate. There was no other mechanical issue found.

Not trying to derail the discussion but I am curious how cold others are flying their RV-12's? Living here in CO, we get our share of colder days. I like the rest of you love to fly in the colder air in the winter in my Rotax powered Gobosh while trying to endure the temps to continue the build.

Carl


Per the Rotax manual....Max (120F Ambient) Min (-13F Oil Temp)...start or operate. I only know because our ambient can get near the 120 on those rare occasions.

Pete
 
I've flown the -12 at -7f, but that is after preheating the engine and oil to 40F. I preheat below 30f. There is plenty of warm air from the radiator, oil cooler, exhaust system to keep inside the cowel area warm. Remember, the air intake is on the back of the engine so it is getting "warm" air.
 
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Heater temp

Thanks. That helps a lot. I am just finishing the Service Bulletin and doing a condition inspection at the same time. We are including a number of mods at the same time. Moeller fuel gauge, heater baffle, oil cooler moved forward, AOA, vernier throttle, and baggage compartment bulkhead mod.

Richard
120002
 
Thanks. That helps a lot. I am just finishing the Service Bulletin and doing a condition inspection at the same time. We are including a number of mods at the same time. Moeller fuel gauge, heater baffle, oil cooler moved forward, AOA, vernier throttle, and baggage compartment bulkhead mod.

Richard
120002

Your going to love the vernier throttle - I did all of the mods you did as I built. I went EAB from the start, but the throttle is great & so smooth!

Enjoy it.
 
CURRENT REPORT - -

Just got home from flying. Shoveled a foot of crusty snow away from the door. The airport does good, but can't get closer than a foot or two. Was ( -6C ) on the surface, and ( -10C ) at 3500'. Brought the CHT's up to 210 degrees with my Heater Damper Door. Was very confortable. TOTAL overcast, so only the heater was warming things. Could see for miles, but no sun !

John Bender
 
I've flown the -12 at -7f, but that is after preheating the engine and oil to 40F. I preheat below 30f.
Preheat is important for the 912 series. It is also quite easy to do. A pair of hot pads on the block and oil tank is cheap and easy, and will probably help get you to / beyond TBO. There are other systems that work better at preheating, but cost more.

TODR
 
I use the - -

Reiff pre-heat ( about $225 I think ), and it works great. I keep it plugged in all the time, and cover the nose with a packing blanket. If I turn on the display, the ENTIRE engine is 90 - 95 degrees. No warm up time required. Just taxi and go.

John Bender
 
The Reiff rules! I recently started using the Pilot Portraits Cellphone switcher. I call the PP switcher a few hours before I fly and it all works great. Saves a lot of fuel on warm up.
 
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