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brianwallis

brianwallis

VAF moderator
Allright... confession time. I was walking through work today and "Pour some sugar on me" was wafting off the huge walls. I was clearly not taking the sale of my -3 well. It's not officially sold yet so there is still hope my first love will stay in my stable. Momma said we could get a two place. The gears were churning on something that was going to sustain my RV addiction. I get plenty of aviation at work everyday... It's literally an airshow alllllllllll day but it's all turbine and stupid loud. Some time ago I saw an RV-6 that was stretched for kids seats. I'd like an RV, tail dragger, good glide and very efficent. If the engine quits for any reason, safety and glide range is very important, espically with family on board. The research wheels have started to turn on an RV-9 with 160hp carb set up. With gas prices doing their climb... efficient operation is number one. I'd like to use all the speed tricks to make this an UBER cross country machine.... Any thoughts? Maybe it could be a good father son build project...... Pour a little sugar on that! Lets get some input!!!
Thanks!
 
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27 gallons of 93 oct for 4.5 hours

NAINNNNN!!!! You are thinking in right direction Brian. You can still roll it 707 style to impress Momma just don't tell anybody :) Talk to my cousin Don Alexander and do as my other cousin Rocky did :D
 
If you have kids

I would suggest looking at the RV10. Trying to stretch an aircraft to do something it is not intended for is not a good idea IMHO. The Ten may set you back for a while, but you will come out way ahead in the long run as your kids get older and larger. Talk to some Ten owners and try to get a ride in one. You will be impressed.
 
LOVE my 9A, and the 9 would fit the bill! Wouldn't suggest stretching it as kids quickly grow, and the 10 looks awfully good for four adults. If you are just in it for the fun, I have a 12 that we could finish to your specs that we are selling now for $70K. It will be finished in the spring or early summer, and the 12 is as much fun as the 9, only cheaper to fly. Will have one building down at a high school near you soon, also, if you want to work on it. New plane at kit cost, and the 12 is every bit a Van's aircraft!

Bob
 
Brian,

I'd agree with Rog. But if you still end up looking at a 9, I along with a lot of others are right there with ya. My primary flight profile would be cross-country, squeeze-as-much-per-gallon. O-320 with 8.5:1 compression to run mogas, dual P-Mags for the efficiency of EI but with the mechanical backup, paired with a Catto 3-blade... If the fan's spinning up front, it might as well pull you as best as possible. :)

Some other speed fairing mods and other things will be in my build eventually, which are found elsewhere in the archives of VAF. But that's my general line of thought with my -9a. Make it sip drops of mogas, and make it slip through the air as slick as possible.

Good luck in becoming a repeat offender.
 
Brian,

While the baby seat in the back of our -9 works great, at four years-old he is about done ridding back in the baggage compartment.

We are thinking it is time to upgrade to something that all of us can ride in.

The -9 doesn't lend itself to lengthening, like the -6 did because all the parts are pre-punched. However, with the O-360 and dual P-mags I typically run mine at around 150 knots on 7 GPH LOP, so fuel is never an issue. The biggest problem is being at 8500 when you hear a scream from the back, ?I gotta go potty!?
 
Narrowing down the specs

No stretch, O-320, catto prop, all possible speed fairings, auto fuel capable, Dynon Skyview with backup vac pump and art horizon. No LOP but finely tuned fuel flow and cht/egt. Uber stable IFR platform that sips fuel. Still thinking....
 
Any particular reason for the vac pump, other than you like a mechanical steam gauge backup? Personally for backup purposes, I'd just go with a D1 I pull out of the glovebox (sorry, chartbox, or center console if you go that way like I will) and stick on the dashboard if things go bad. Or if you want more permanent, Trutrak ADI?

Why deal with something that's basically an antique on a "modern" plane's engine? Personally, I'm going to stick a backup alt on the engine's vac pad.
 
brianwallis said:
No stretch, O-320, catto prop, all possible speed fairings, auto fuel capable, Dynon Skyview with backup vac pump and art horizon. No LOP but finely tuned fuel flow and cht/egt. Uber stable IFR platform that sips fuel. Still thinking....
Click to expand...

Skip the backup vac pump and old school gauges, they just add weight and aren?t needed. If you really want a backup, put a Dynon D1 Pocket Panel in and a good handheld GPS (for its battery backup) and be done with it.

Keep the -9(A?) as light as you can and leave all the fancy options at home. (Electric trim, flap position sensors, etc.)

If you go with a 160 HP O-320 you can still run auto fuel, it just needs to be 91 octane or above. See this thread for details.
 
Backup alt....

Honestly, I think the backup alternator would be a fantastic idea. The vac pump was simply to have a mechanical backup just in case lightning strikes and kills everything electric. The -10 is out of the question because of fuel burn and the door issue. The 12 is out of consideration because the -9 has a better glide. Gotta be behind a Lycoming. One regular mag and one electric mag would be cool...
 
Okay, now the same logic. Why have an old mag? That's the nice part of P-Mags. You get the efficiency of EI with the mechanical backup of a regular mag if the electrons decide to go take a hike.
 
brianwallis said:
The -10 is out of the question because of fuel burn and the door issue.
Click to expand...

As a 10 builder, I would debate this statement. What does have an impact is the build cost. If everything is purchased new, it's hard to build a 10 these days for under$150k. Fortunately there are plenty of options for used gear.

You can pull the throttle back and run in the 9-10 gallon/hr range if economy is the desired goal. Granted, you'll have the speed of a C152. I think most folks run in the 11-12 gal/hr LOP to get the best combination of mph and gph. And if you want to get there fast, just fly WOT. But at 20+ gph, most of us can't afford to do that option often.

Another way to look at it, is gal/person/hr. If you have to carry more than one person, it's the only option from Vans.

The door clearly could use a better design. However, with the planearound.com safety latch installed, I think all of the previous incidents would have been prevented. Sean's design allows the simple one hand closing of the door and there is no way the door pins won't latch securely.

Since you're just starting you family, you may want to take a look at some of Tim Olson's trip reports on myrv10.com. His girls were raised flying in the back seat of a 10. I think that is a tremendous way to provide your kids an education that most other kids don't have an opportunity to obtain. How many of us can claim flying in all fifty states?
 
No 10

If I need a four seater, then plenty of my customers have four and six seaters. That's the nice part of running your own Mx shop and being the IA. The nine that I flew was very efficient but not the fastest thing I've ever seen. It was a great glider and very stable. The focus will be something very very efficient that still flies like an RV and is cheap on fuel. I would love to teach my son to fly in it one day.
 
RV-9 vs RV-12

I don't think you can say that the -12 doesn't glide as well as the -9.
It has a little less span, but its a lot lighter. My money would be on the 12 as the best glide performance of the existing RV's. (I'm not counting the RV-11 motorglider)
 
Brian, you seem to have the same thoughts as I did when I chose the 9a. I wanted a slow revving Lycoming up front and good gliding capabilities.

I finished up with a 9a that weighed in empty at 893 lbs. It has a low compression Lycoming 0-235 spinning the two blade Catto prop. With a solo stall speed of 35 kts. Good economy and I run it on Mogas most of the time. Sure it doesn't have the performance of the bigger horsepower 9's but it fits the bill of what I wanted.
 
My vote would be for the 9

I've owned several planes and I absolutely love my 9A. I just can't say enough good things about it. Mine has a 150 HP 0-320 with mags and carb. Dead simple and reliable. It might even be a little too docile for a trainer though:D.
 
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Catalina's magic....

Well... my mind is still floating along thinking about this morning's flight in Bruce Sack's RV-9 "Catalina". The stars had somehow aligned for a visit from Mr Bruce while he was enroute to a lunch in the -9. Bruce had exited mid field on a 3100' grass strip (62GA) - my little slice of heaven. He was immediately surrounded by retired airline pilots doing the Stearman thing for breakfast. Takeoff with two "Americans" and fuel was quite effortless. The educated guess was 1500 fpm. At 200' AGL, Bruce and I did a proper three way transfer of controls and my jaw dropped. It's a proper rudder aircraft for sure but it was absolutely incredible to fly. This airplane was ROCK steady and flew like it was on rails. Bruce patiently put up with the list of questions and let me fly around the lake and even land his -9. His performance figures were mindblowingly efficient. 6.8 GPH in cruise (160 kts if I remember correctly) at altitude. The slow flight was beyond stable. She talked to us as the buffet started for the stall. She showed no unpredictable tendencies. The -9 was the opposite of my -3 for gliding. I cannot tell you all how impressed I was! This thing is stupid stable, stupid efficient and still flies like an RV. After reviewing it's performance first hand, it has sold itself to me as "the" airplane to have to efficient cross country for 2 seats plus luggage. If I need a 4 seater... I'll just borrow one.
Best,
Brian Wallis
 
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Brian,

I know exactly what you are talking about...Bruce took me up in "catalina" a few months ago when I was undecided about whether to go taildragger or 9A. I thought visibility was still good in his ship and ground handling/landing seemed easy enough. He has a great bird....it seems as if the 9 is clearly underrated.
 
Speed question

Ok RV-9 guys.... would you please post some real life performance figures? It will be interesting to see some scientific data on both cruise with gph and also top speed with fuel burn. 9A data is appreciated as well. If I build one, it will be as slick and efficient as possible with all the possible speed mods other than the high compression pistons for the engine. I want to be able to use car fuel. Thanks in advance!!!!!!!
ps... I hear these aircraft really get up and go up at altitude.
 
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Brian,

Talk to Stein and Greg Arehart to confirm these numbers as they both have -9's with the O-360 up front.

75% cruise is right 199 mph / 169 kts. To do that you are drinking fuel at the rate of around 10 GPH.

My typical flight sees me at 172 mph to 178 mph (150 to 155 kts) run LOP and burning just over 7 GPH.

Climb rates are outstanding, even with the two bladed Cato prop I have and they can go well over 2200 FPM as my flight instructor found out last week when we did my biannual.

There really isn't a need for a CS prop on a -9 as you aren't going to be doing acro work.

With the 135 HP O-290-D2 I had and a climb prop, I would typically cruise it at 165 mph / 140 kts while burning around 6.5 GPH ROP. (Parts are hard to come by with that engine and it didn't like to run LOP like the O-360 does.)

Climb rates at GW would be in the 1600 to 1800 FPM range.

Keep in mind, I did everything I could think of to keep my build light. Select your options carefully and you will be fine. BTW, that includes skipping the heavy steam gauge stuff. Search on my name and light and you will find a list of things I did to keep the weight down.

The empty weight with the O-360 is 1068 and with the O-290 it was 998. The GW is 1750, do the math and you will find you have a LOT of useful load.
 
back story....

"What had happened wuzzzz..." OK the official back story is this.... In 2003 I purchased an 02 VW TDI with 33k miles. It was sold in 2010 with almost 500,000 miles. I put an extra tank in the back so I could be as efficient as possible. I put "pre-owned" vegetable oil from restraunts that had been filtered for chunks and water. There was no change in performance. Best of all, it was freeeeeeee!!!!!! I was driving to Atlanta most every weekend from West Palm Beach Florida because of family here in Atlanta and also taking care of customers on the weekends up here. I will not be putting an extra tank in the -9 and using vegetable oil for sure... About 2 hrs of flying and I'm ready to take a break. I'm not about to put anything other than a Lycoming in the RV-9. No car or motorcycle engines. No Diesel, although if there was a proven Diesel engine with hundreds of thousands of field hours on it with no failures, I would certainly consider it. The problem with selling an aircraft with a non standard aircraft engine is your pool of potential buyers is much smaller than those with a Lycoming.
Best,
Brian Wallis
 
brianwallis said:
Well... my mind is still floating along thinking about this morning's flight in Bruce Sack's RV-9 "Catalina". The stars had somehow aligned for a visit from Mr Bruce while he was enroute to a lunch in the -9. Bruce had exited mid field on a 3100' grass strip (62GA) - my little slice of heaven. He was immediately surrounded by retired airline pilots doing the Stearman thing for breakfast. Takeoff with two "Americans" and fuel was quite effortless. The educated guess was 1500 fpm. At 200' AGL, Bruce and I did a proper three way transfer of controls and my jaw dropped. It's a proper rudder aircraft for sure but it was absolutely incredible to fly. This airplane was ROCK steady and flew like it was on rails. Bruce patiently put up with the list of questions and let me fly around the lake and even land his -9. His performance figures were mindblowingly efficient. 6.8 GPH in cruise (160 kts if I remember correctly) at altitude. The slow flight was beyond stable. She talked to us as the buffet started for the stall. She showed no unpredictable tendencies. The -9 was the opposite of my -3 for gliding. I cannot tell you all how impressed I was! This thing is stupid stable, stupid efficient and still flies like an RV. After reviewing it's performance first hand, it has sold itself to me as "the" airplane to have to efficient cross country for 2 seats plus luggage. If I need a 4 seater... I'll just borrow one.
Best,
Brian Wallis
Click to expand...

Well said Brian! It was a pleasure meeting your family and visiting Seven Lakes!
Your description of the -9 flying characteristics is spot on. She fits my mission well and has been a stellar performer for over six years and 700 hrs. :)
 
brianwallis said:
"What had happened wuzzzz..." OK the official back story is this.... In 2003 I purchased an 02 VW TDI with 33k miles. It was sold in 2010 with almost 500,000 miles. I put an extra tank in the back so I could be as efficient as possible. I put "pre-owned" vegetable oil from restraunts that had been filtered for chunks and water. There was no change in performance. Best of all, it was freeeeeeee!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Naw, the best part was the smell...put Mickey D's to shame! :D

For those who don't know (or haven't guessed by now), Brian and I have been great friends for about 7 years now. I had a few rides in the "Fry-mobile", and he knows I'm just messin' with him.
 
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