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Drawbacks to a quickbuild?

E

efitzgerald

Active Member
Hello Everyone,

I'm going to be near Van's Aircraft next week and I was planning on placing my order for a rv7 wing and fuselage quickbuild kit.

Are there any drawbacks to the quickbuild kits? I am painting so minor surface blemishes aren't an issue. One thing that I thought of was that I was going to install a flop tube in one of the fuel tanks for inverted flight, so that could be a problem.

I like the idea of building the slow build kit but I don't have as much time as I would like.

Eric
 
The only drawback (I see) is added cost, but well worth it. As far as the flop tube, you can still install it in either tank with no problem.
 
efitzgerald said:
Hello Everyone,

I'm going to be near Van's Aircraft next week and I was planning on placing my order for a rv7 wing and fuselage quickbuild kit.

Are there any drawbacks to the quickbuild kits? I am painting so minor surface blemishes aren't an issue. One thing that I thought of was that I was going to install a flop tube in one of the fuel tanks for inverted flight, so that could be a problem.

I like the idea of building the slow build kit but I don't have as much time as I would like.

Eric
Click to expand...

Maybe the drawback is not what you think. If this is your first build, you will have to develop your building skills more rapidly. The "instructions" get very thin to nonexistent as you enter FWF, and the complexity of the projects escalates. Do your research on the issues from others ahead of you, some get built in on the QB. It might be a good idea to take an RV specific training course, and get a rabbi for consultations.
 
Ahh, the time vs money question. Quick builds are very well built. Do you need to be in the air in a year sooner (or sooner?)
Do you need to save big bucks.
I went QB, no regrets.
Best wishes.
 
I will never forget what Bob Bray,, hard-core multiple "plans only" homebuilt and RV builder told me back in the early 90's (aside from other types he built 3 RVs from plans only). "Get every damned quick build option you can".

Really, Life is too short if you're an aviator. Plus the quality of the Vans quick build kit is in a word phenomenal. Not so much some other kit makers.

Meanwhile, any previous experienced builder would be hard pressed to exceed the quality of the Van's quick build kit.

Just do it. I know that's what you were hoping we would say anyway or you would have not asked tye question in the first place. So take this as a moment of affirmation.

Jim

Jim
 
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I found issues with my QuickBuild kit that may not have occurred if I'd done the work myself:
  1. The wing bolt holes in the main spar don't line up perfectly. Maybe 1/16 off.
  2. There were a number of things done that had to be undone. IE, fuselage side skin to longeron rivets set that should have been left out so the forward top skin could be riveted on.
  3. Canopy Deck sticking outboard beyond the longerons needing to be trimmed back.
  4. Score lines/scratches on my wing skin where they stripped the protective plastic off the rivet lines.
So I'm not sure I'd go QuickBuild next time. It'd be 50/50 I think.
 
What I don't like about quick builds is that they make decisions for you that you might want another way. And also, now that they have made some of them matched hole, all you have to do is throw the kit in the shop and it puts itself together anyway! :D
 
Kinda like what Bill says...

When I didn't know what I didn't know, I had a hard time figuring out where the quickbuilders left off and where I had to pick up with respect to the instructions.

That was my primary reason for going slow build. There are no QB instructions.

Besides, with SB you can do some cool things like the flop tubes, deluxe caps, capacitance senders and the like.

:) CJ
 
I lucked out and found QB wings for the same price of a SB kit, you still have the option on flop tube and sender on the QB wing, those parts are not done yet. just got Fuel in the tanks no leaks ...so far. I did SB fuse, enjoyed that build, painted all the interor parts before assembly.
 
Vans site says the QB kits are primed. Is everything primed or just the parts that are not made of Alclad?

The deluxe fuel tank caps cannot be added to the tanks?

I having been going back and forth on this decision. Everyone inputs is very appreciated, I am sure there are many things I haven't considered.
 
I found a SB kit of excellent quality that someone worked on for about 10 years before I picked it up in QB state. Already had one flop tube and lots of upgrades done. The price was less than half what the QB would have been.

Hoping to fly in the next couple months after 2 years of fun and money.
 
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Plummit said:
Leaky fuel tanks.-Marc
Click to expand...

When the question was examined roughly 8 years ago, the incidence of blisters was about the same, QB or DIY. There is no data to suggest leaks are any different.

Assuming you intend to build a largely stock airplane (and money isn't a factor), the only reason to do it all yourself is the belief that you can do it better. Really skilled builders can. Most can't. The difference isn't real obvious.
 
DanH said:
When the question was examined roughly 8 years ago, the incidence of blisters was about the same, QB or DIY. There is no data to suggest leaks are any different.

Assuming you intend to build a largely stock airplane (and money isn't a factor), the only reason to do it all yourself is the belief that you can do it better. Really skilled builders can. Most can't. The difference isn't real obvious.
Click to expand...

QB wings here. Having read about this, I did the green Locktight trick on all tank rivets and pulled a vacuum just for precautionary measures, there is now fuel in these tanks, I'll report my finding here......fingers crossed
 
Time

I did a -8A quickbuild and it still took 6 1/2 years. I have a real job that requires extensive travel.

Building the plane was a great experience, but not nearly as wonderful as flying it. 5 1/2 years and nearly 800 hours of pure joy. It truly is a magic carpet.

Recommend you include the engineering variable "t" is your analysis.
 
efitzgerald said:
Vans site says the QB kits are primed. Is everything primed or just the parts that are not made of Alclad?

The deluxe fuel tank caps cannot be added to the tanks?

I having been going back and forth on this decision. Everyone inputs is very appreciated, I am sure there are many things I haven't considered.
Click to expand...

Everything is primed

The tanks are fully assembled with the standard caps.
No option for deluxe caps and not possible to change them after construction.
 
efitzgerald said:
Vans site says the QB kits are primed. Is everything primed or just the parts that are not made of Alclad?

The deluxe fuel tank caps cannot be added to the tanks?

I having been going back and forth on this decision. Everyone inputs is very appreciated, I am sure there are many things I haven't considered.
Click to expand...

Hard to say, it is a near clear Akzo Nobel wash primer. I don't know the specs, but Vans could give you the part number for locating the SDS. I can not tell it is there.

You could always do either the fuse or the wings then decide on the other as a QB later. The quality is quite good as stated. The work will be more, but by improving your your progress speed, the end result might not change much.

If you already had the skills, then QB all the way!
 
I went the QB route, and I'm sooooo glad I did. Build quality was excellent, and no leaks whatsoever in the tanks so far in 85 hours of Hobbs time.

If you're going to go with a polished aluminum finish, I wouldn't go QB, as my fuselage and wings showed up with little blemishes on the skin (maybe scratches that were sanded out?) that might not respond well to polishing. But they disappear completely as soon as the first coat of exterior primer is applied, so no issues whatsoever if aircraft is to be painted or wrapped.

When you're building, there is sooo much numbing repetition of deburring, dimpling and riveting, and the QBs cut down on that a lot. You'll still get plenty of riveting experience on the tail feathers and other parts of the aircraft. For me, it freed up time/ambition to possibly do a better job on other aspects of the plane that were far more interesting, like panel design and wiring.

The QB wings and especially the fuselage come in friggin' enormous crates, so arrange to have five or six friends around to unload when the freight carrier drops them off at your home or business. I was fortunate enough to have access to a couple of forklifts at the time. Once the fuse is uncrated and all the pieces inside removed (I ordered QB wings, so flaps and ailerons, for example, were neatly wrapped and packed inside the fuselage), it can easily be lifted and moved by two people.

Here's a shot of the fuse, with the sides and top of the packing crate removed. The wing crate is in the background:




Another, safely home in my garage:

 
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Another consideration...

Resale-to some extent...if reselling it will ever be a factor.

As my RV search progressed, I found myself leaning towards a QB aircraft due to the widely varying levels of build quality I was running across.

To explain-I have arrived only lately to experimental aviation, and specifically to the RV arena. On top of that, I am a non-builder owner.

So, I know very little of the "build" side of the RV world.

First off, there are SB RV's whose level of workmanship and finish far exceed a factory product, no question. Finding one, and rapidly getting a sales agreement in place can be a challenge as the good ones get snapped up very quickly.

As previously stated, Van's QB kits have earned a level of respect for their quality and workmanship.

The take away for me (rightly or wrongly) was that as a newbie, a QB RV gave me a "comfort level" that at least portion of the aircraft's structure was "factory built" by folks trained and practiced in doing so.

By it's nature, a pre-buy inspection can only go so far-you cannot disassemble the aircraft, and there are critical build areas that cannot be looked at.

A QB aircraft (for me) gave me a measure of reassurance (in my inexperience) that at least those areas we could not inspect had a very high degree of accurate, workmanlike completion done by folks who do this stuff everyday.

For me, a QB was a "plus" while I was searching for one to purchase.

Good luck with your build!
 
Finishing up -8 QB wings

As others have stated, the QB quality is very good and if you're short on time, it's a great way to go (especially the fuselage).

If you're only mod is 1 flop tube, QB is still a no-brainer. I'm finishing up my -8 QB wings (very similar to the -7) and doing a number of changes including flop tubes, fuel return lines, ER tank mounts/connections, leading edge taxi lights. It's all doable with a QB, just can take some extra effort and bodily contortion working around the completed QB work.

Good luck!

Chris
 
Problem with the Flop Tube is that it requires Capacitance Fuel Sensors and one needs to be installed at the outboard end of the tank. Not very feasible with the tank already built.
 
A different perspective

I am a first time RV builder and am building a -10. I bought a couple of partially built kits including a damaged QB fuselage which I intended to repair. I ended up selling everything and starting new. I wasn't happy with the build quality and didn't have the skills to repair and complete what I bought.

I attended a Fundamentals class at Synergy back in May and then built the empennage and tailcone in two weeks. I learned a great deal, had more fun than I've had in years - but did not learn enough to feel confident I could do the rest myself.

So I went back a few weeks ago and built the fuselage, again with Synergy. There was a QB fuselage there we could use when the plans were ambiguous, plus we could compare build quality. The QB was good, but I think ours was better. Plus I left out the floor pans so I could install some insulation. If you want to do that with QB, you need to remove the landing gear mounts and the floor pans - which are riveted in place.

I gained a lot of experience and confidence and now feel I could complete the build now on my own. However, I had so much fun and value the experience, patience and tribal knowledge available at Synergy - so I'm going back in late January to build the wings. I want to do locking fuel caps, capacitance probes and HID lights. Harder to do with QB wings.

QB is definitely cheaper (but not necessarily quicker) than what I've done. Slow build is cheaper yet. Personally, I didn't have the skills to build the kind of airplane I knew I wanted - without going the route I've chosen.

The journey of the build is as important to me as getting the airplane flying. Not everyone has the same desires and goals. There are compromises no matter which route you take.
 
TajMahal said:
As others have stated, the QB quality is very good and if you're short on time, it's a great way to go (especially the fuselage).

If you're only mod is 1 flop tube, QB is still a no-brainer. I'm finishing up my -8 QB wings (very similar to the -7) and doing a number of changes including flop tubes, fuel return lines, ER tank mounts/connections, leading edge taxi lights. It's all doable with a QB, just can take some extra effort and bodily contortion working around the completed QB work.

Good luck!

Chris
Click to expand...

Another method used in the past is to install a standard float sender in the second bay. With it located very close to the inboard rib the accuracy is just about the same as when it is in the outboard bay.
 
Problem with the Flop Tube is that it requires Capacitance Fuel Sensors and one needs to be installed at the outboard end of the tank. Not very feasible with the tank already built.

The normal float type sensors cannot be used with a flop tube? I am assuming that quite a few people have QB wings with flop tubes, what are they doing.

I was originally thinking about a combo fuel and smoke oil tank to go behind the seat for acrobatics but I was leaning away from that for weight reasons.

Eric
 
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I have built 4 QB RVs, all four were outstanding quality, for every one you here about with an issue I would bet there are a couple of hundred that were perfect. The quality control is outstanding. Absolutely go QB.
 
Just an observation about the accuracy of fuel tank measurement...I wouldn't let concerns about it be an outsized consideration of the type of kit selected.

Searching this website will reveal plenty of reading about the inaccuracy of the float system used.

What I have found in practice with my float-system equipped RV-7 is that I use the fuel gauges as "strategic" info, not "tactical".

They can tell me an approximate, general level, but no where near with any accuracy to get a good feeling about. Or feel confident taking a risk on...In other words, they are like almost every other spam can GA aircraft you've flown...

To compensate for this shortcoming, I drained the tanks, then placed measured amounts back in and took readings with sticks so as to be able to make a very accurate estimate of actual onboard fuel before launching.

The other half of the solution is that the aircraft came with a "Red Cube" fuel flow measurement tied into the Skyview. There is a procedure listed to refine the red cube's accuracy, and I used this on multiple flights to where I now have a very "dialed in" ability to determine almost exactly how much I've burned since startup. I routinely can determine burn within a quart...most of the times well under that.

That ability makes the gauges much less critical, IMO. Valuable for things like alerting you to a massive external fuel leak, for example...but for wondering if you really have 5 gallons left on the left side?

No way.

Sorry for the thread drift.
 
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Thanks everyone, your feedback is appreciated.

I was typing my question about the fuel level sensor but rvbuilder2002 beat me to it. I was planning on a fuel flow sensor as well. My only experience with airplane fuel gauges is the Diamond DA20 that I normally fly and that ones is only accurate when the tank is empty.


It sounds like the main disadvantages of the QB wings are:

No deluxe fuel cap - thought the retrofit cap is an option.
No capacitive fuel level sensors
No long range fuel tanks

How about the fuselage? Other than trying to figure out what the next step is what are the drawbacks?

Is the skin for canopy latch already cut and is it installed? I was going with a tip up and didn't really like the look of the original latch.

Eric
 
rvbuilder2002 said:
Another method used in the past is to install a standard float sender in the second bay. With it located very close to the inboard rib the accuracy is just about the same as when it is in the outboard bay.
Click to expand...

I thought about using float senders in the 2nd bay, and it was the simplest option. Ultimately I wanted capacitance based senders so I installed 12" Belite capacitance fuel probes (0-5v output for EFIS) instead. Mounted them near the top of blank cover plates and just formed the probe shape with a slight bend up (to the top of the tank), then 90 degrees down so the tip is at the bottom of the tank to span the full-to-empty fuel level range. Took some creative mocking-up, bending, install, tweak, reinstall (rinse and repeat) to get the final bends correct and fit correctly, but is a nice (but not necessarily cheap) capacitance probe option instead of the normal float senders.

Chris
 
efitzgerald said:
It sounds like the main disadvantages of the QB wings are:

No deluxe fuel cap - thought the retrofit cap is an option.
No capacitive fuel level sensors
No long range fuel tanks
Click to expand...

While not part of the QB package, there are options if you're up for it:

Bendable capacitance fuel probes can replace the float sender or even capacitance plates like Vans used to offer. You can mount one either in the inboard bay where the float sender normally is, or in the 2nd bay mounted to the rear tank baffle if installing flop tube(s).

Depending on your definition of 'long-range', there is one option in the Hotel Whiskey ER tanks. it's only 9 more gallons of usable fuel, but buys you another hour or so of flight time.

I'm doing both on my -8 QB wings, which are identical to the 7. I don't know if you can drill out the standard fuel cap flanges and replace with the deluxe ones though. Someone at the factory told me that was possible when I was deciding on QB or SB wings, but I've never confirmed if true.
 
TajMahal said:
so the tip is at the bottom of the tank to span the full-to-empty fuel level range.
Click to expand...

Glad you like what you have but any sensor (float or capacitive) that is located only in the inboard rib bay can only measure approx 70% of the total fuel capacity because wing dihedral puts the other 30% above the sensor.
Not that it matters... most people consider the lower part of the fuel capacity to be the portion that we care to measure with any accuracy.
 
I would say the matter of details like caps and senders is trivial compared to the enormous advantage that so much of the work is already done with a QB, it really is a mountain of time and effort saved. Definitely go for the QB, you'll have plenty of building with that to keep you satisfied. And I guess you could always build new tanks for it if you really want the deluxe caps!
 
Depends on your goals

There were several RV-14's under construction at Synergy when I was there and a couple more starting next week. I had a chance to talk with one of the builders. He owned an engineering firm on the east coast, but was taking two weeks every month to come to the west coast and build his airplane. So I asked him why he went slow build vs. quick build. The short answer was that it was quicker than waiting the many months for the QB RV-14. Seems there are extensive delays in getting RV-14 QB fuselage and wings from the Philippines.

So while there may be savings in time actually working on your plane, there may be an advantage if your goal is to get airborne in the quickest (calendar) time. I'm sure that depends on the model too, but I built an RV-10 fuselage in three weeks vs. the four months or so I would have waited for a QB fuselage. The improvement in my skills and knowledge was worth the extra cost.
 
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rvbuilder2002 said:
Glad you like what you have but any sensor (float or capacitive) that is located only in the inboard rib bay can only measure approx 70% of the total fuel capacity because wing dihedral puts the other 30% above the sensor.
Not that it matters... most people consider the lower part of the fuel capacity to be the portion that we care to measure with any accuracy.
Click to expand...

Completely agree. Should have clarified full to empty of that bay vs the entire tank. Regardless, point is QB is a great option, great quality and you can still have many of the other features if you're up for a bit of extra work to incorporate them. Even then, a major time savings vs. SB.

Back to pounding rivets now. :D
 
DanH said:
What does the deluxe fuel cap do better than the standard?
Click to expand...

Open and close!

Seriously, the locking deluxe caps on Van's website are very similar to the caps on my Mooney. They operate very easily, seal extremely well and look good.

I have the standard caps on my RV-8. I can't open them by hand... have to use my fuel stick. And they really don't look that great. Not a big deal, but those are the differences for you.
 
I hear a lot of people mentioning the high quality of the QuickBuild kits. I wonder if I got bad ones or if my standards are just too high. Hopefully, the latter!
 
A few more things

I got a quick build, and would do so again, however:

1) A few things in the instructions will be skipped randomly, and you need to find them and do them. It says that very clearly in the instructions. You should review each step, and make sure it was done. One of these for me, were some bolts on the RV-8 spar, and were an absolute bear to put on after the fact. The nut and washer are inside the spar. It would have been cake for the factory to do it. I had to "build a tool" to do mine.

2) Different QB kits have different things done on them. My 8 had the tailcone top skin not installed, and someone that I knew had theirs come with it installed. So be careful about assuming what is done and what is not. It might not be so.

3) My SS firewall was bent at too much of an angle, and I am still trying to figure out how to fix that situation. I asked the factory, and they said "it should not be an issue", but I guarantee the door won't fit right as is. If anyone has an idea for me on that, I'm all ears.
 
Difference

Simple
QB- I'm flying!
SB- I built it!
:D
EDIT: JUST JOKING!
 
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wirejock said:
Simple
QB- I'm flying!
SB- I built it!
:D
Click to expand...

QB or SB, in my book, you still built it. Your name goes on it as the manufacturer regardless.
I built everything SB except my fuselage. I was one of the very first SB wing to QB fuselage mid build "conversions". The factory shipped my match drilled center section bulkheads to the Philipines for assembly in the fuselage.
I built mine and am proud of it. It is a huge achievement. I don't take anything away from the QB's. Same skill set is aquired, just less repetition and time.
Now, if you wa nt to talk match drilled vs what we had to do in the day, well., (just kidding!) it is a huge achievement regardless.
 
Fuel Caps - Andair ones retrofit easily - simply Pro Seal in.
Dan - they are key operated and so much easier to get on and off than the standard ones.

Primer - It is a basic wash primer which is adequate, but not as comprehensive as some. I would suggest you ACF50 or similar in the wings, around the tanks and by the seams after painting if you do go QB as some RV's are now getting tinworm on the seams in the UK from internal sweating.

QB issues - basic stuff to do with quality control. We had to swap out half a dozen nutplates on our 8 QB, you have to disassemble structure to get the flaps in - seat belt structure in the way and on the 8, several rivets around the gear towers and roll bar are impossible to buck, so have to be Cherried.

Our 7, several years ago was one of the last from Czech Republic - much, much better. Primer was much more substantial, build quality was much better than Philippines and no unassembling to do. That said, they must have cost a lot more to produce which is why they stopped using them. Incidently, the factory there has QB'd RV4's for guys in the UK.
 
After five -7 SBs...I'd still do SBs.*

*YMMV. I wasn't in any rush and had the time. The wings go together fast because they are so redundant. There's a thousand miles of edges to deburr and straighten, but once past the tediousness, they rivet up quick and do seem to yield big chunks quickly. Tanks are a bother, but hey, wade right in and don't spare the sealant. Not the biggest bang for the QB buck, but it will save you maybe 150 hours. There aren't that many options that QB obscures.

The fuse seems to drag on forever. Symmetric, so there's redundancy, but all the provisions for systems and custom modifications make a QB fuse difficult to work around. Unfortunately, you realize this after completing your first build. E.g., I deviate extensively from the order of tasks in the instructions, principally in not riveting in the forward floor and firewall until just before taxiing. Easy, walk in access to the front of the spar is a godsend. Being your first build, you don't know the conveniences you're missing, so the fuse is where I suggest spending the QB bucks.

John Siebold
 
mike newall said:
Fuel Caps - Andair ones retrofit easily - simply Pro Seal in.
Dan - they are key operated and so much easier to get on and off than the standard ones.

Primer - It is a basic wash primer which is adequate, but not as comprehensive as some. I would suggest you ACF50 or similar in the wings, around the tanks and by the seams after painting if you do go QB as some RV's are now getting tinworm on the seams in the UK from internal sweating.

QB issues - basic stuff to do with quality control. We had to swap out half a dozen nutplates on our 8 QB, you have to disassemble structure to get the flaps in - seat belt structure in the way and on the 8, several rivets around the gear towers and roll bar are impossible to buck, so have to be Cherried.

Our 7, several years ago was one of the last from Czech Republic - much, much better. Primer was much more substantial, build quality was much better than Philippines and no unassembling to do. That said, they must have cost a lot more to produce which is why they stopped using them. Incidently, the factory there has QB'd RV4's for guys in the UK.
Click to expand...

The primer used on the QB kits is actually quite effective.
I recently did another "reveal" on the test sample that I have had hanging outside (60 miles from Pacific ocean) for 15+ years. The aluminum under where the primer was removed was new like the day the primer was applied.
The area that had been purposely left bare.... not so much.
Hopefully some details will be posted on the Van's Facebook page sometime soon.
 
Thinking of qb fuse

This thread has got me really thinking about a qb fuse. But i can't get over the fact that the extra cost is the same as an o320 core or a great portion of a mid time o 320. But the time savings seems to be a lot. How much time did you all spend on the sb rv9 fuse?
 
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rvbuilder2002 said:
The primer used on the QB kits is actually quite effective.
I recently did another "reveal" on the test sample that I have had hanging outside (60 miles from Pacific ocean) for 15+ years. The aluminum under where the primer was removed was new like the day the primer was applied.
The area that had been purposely left bare.... not so much.
Hopefully some details will be posted on the Van's Facebook page sometime soon.
Click to expand...

A question - not primer wars, more curiosity.

At what point during the construction do Bonanza apply the wash primer ?

Prior to assembly. or post assembly ?

Any primer is better than none and the SW is a good primer. There are definite problems with tinworm originating from seams due to internal condensation, particularly around the wing tanks as they act as cold soak areas.

If caught early, no problem - ignore at your peril as the little lines grow and grow. Prick the end and water/liquid will emerge which shows the problem.

Occurs on Land Rovers and other alumin(i)um constructed vehicles.

You see the same on the edges of the panels if you don't remove the blue in a reasonable time.

A slow build kit can be primed on the surface to surface contact points which may help.

Personally, I would go QB and ACF on completion every time.
 
mike newall said:
A question - not primer wars, more curiosity.

At what point during the construction do Bonanza apply the wash primer ?

Prior to assembly. or post assembly ?

Any primer is better than none and the SW is a good primer. There are definite problems with tinworm originating from seams due to internal condensation, particularly around the wing tanks as they act as cold soak areas.

If caught early, no problem - ignore at your peril as the little lines grow and grow. Prick the end and water/liquid will emerge which shows the problem.

Occurs on Land Rovers and other alumin(i)um constructed vehicles.

You see the same on the edges of the panels if you don't remove the blue in a reasonable time.

A slow build kit can be primed on the surface to surface contact points which may help.

Personally, I would go QB and ACF on completion every time.
Click to expand...

By tin worm I assume you mean filiform corrosion ?

The occurrence of fliliform is often not a lack of protection, but a lack of proper painting processes.
If an aircraft is painted with any amount of moisture trapped within the structure, effectively sealing it in, filiform corrosion is a likely result, regardless of the primer / paint processes used.

It is for this reason that many years ago I stopped using etch / anodyne treatment as part of the painting process. Without adequate time (never have that) and proper facilities for forced air drying, getting out all of the moisture induced with the use of the liquid chemicals is difficult.

Priming of QB parts is done prior to assembly.
This can easily be confirmed by looking at rivet shop heads.... there is no primer on them.
 
There's one very notable difference between the QB and the SB kits. I'm building an SB RV-3B and a neighbor is building a QB RV-10. While these aren't exactly comparable, one thing definitely caught my attention.

I wrestled with my ailerons.

They went down the inventory list and got to a line - ailerons, quantity 2. Check, check.

And that, my friends was that.

Dave
 
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