RV Storage

Good Afternoon (Japan Time) RVers-

I would like to bring up an interesting topic/ question for your guidance.

In a few months I will be back home in WA state from Deployment and am planning to purchase an RV-4 (In time plan to build an 8 or 10 closer to retirement).

So heres the question- I am finding it incredibly difficult to find a hanger in northwest Washington. I will live in Coupeville on Whidbey Island.
I have searched and emailed many airports and the only hangars I can find are about a hour away (not a huge deal) and are listed at $250 month.
That alone may put me right outside my budgeted spending for an airplane and I really do not want to choose an Old 172 or something instead of an RV. I am wondering how terrible it would be to Tie Down an RV-4 long term. Not only that, but its near the Puget Sound inland water (semi salty environment about as bad as coastal florida).

I intend to keep my invested airplane in good shape, washing and waxing often, but is it an OK idea to Leave my plane outside in the elements (with a material cover) for possibly a couple years while on waiting lists for a more reasonable hangar? The $250 hangar is nice, way too big for me, but it would keep my plane safe. At $15,000 for 5 years tho thats a hard bill to take...

Any and ALL advice will be taken into consideration.
Thank-You in advance,
Jake

Annual misting with ACF-50 will help protect the airframe, and regular flying will help protect the engine. But don't forget, you're buying a used airplane. It will need brakes, plugs, oil changes, not to mention an annual condition inspection. Where will you do this work? The cost difference between hangar and tie down is at least partially justified by the cost savings of doing your own maintance. Of course if that isn't in your plans, then your numbers are different.

Thanks for your input,

I am pretty savvy with airframe and powerplant maint (4.5 years Aviation Electrician and Flight Engineer) so I would like to do as much of the work as I can by myself, or with a friend who knows the plane. I guess that is a good point, most tiedowns are $50 bucks in my area, so upon further thinking the difference is $200 a month. Doable, just seems like an investment that wont return all that much. I would feel guilty leaving such a nice plane outside. Also, I could start building in a hanger that I store my flying airplane in.
Thanks

I will invest in some ACF-50 solution, and flying wont be an issue as long as Im home, however, I will deploy anywhere from 2-8 months at a time. What is the best plan if I were to leave my airplane in the Hanger? Can I have a friend pull it out and start the engine and let it idle then do a few run ups? Or should I try to preserve the engine while Im away?

Starting and just running up is almost worse than doing nothing.
If you are going to deploy for extended periods I would preserve the engine. There is a bulletin from Lycoming I believe that gives guidance on how to preserve an engine for long term storage.

The runups are a bad idea. The oil won't get hot enough to boil off the water, unless the runups are long. But then because of poor cooling the cylinders may be stressed. I'd preserve the engine.

Perhaps you could find a reliable friend to fly the airplane once or twice a month and get the oil temps up to boil off water, the brake discs would be self-cleaned and the tires kept round as well.

Best,

Friend

pierre smith said:

Perhaps you could find a reliable friend to fly the airplane once or twice a month and get the oil temps up to boil off water, the brake discs would be self-cleaned and the tires kept round as well.

Best,

Click to expand...

Have to use caution on that "friend" thing. I once made arrangements for a friend to fly mine once a week or so. Had to put a stop to that! In 5 months, he had put 60 hrs on it. I figurured that if I didn't change something, I'd come back to a runout engine!!!!

Oh well, RV's ARE FUN to fly!

NavyIBNFE said:

The $250 hangar is nice, way too big for me, but it would keep my plane safe. At $15,000 for 5 years tho thats a hard bill to take...
Any and ALL advice will be taken into consideration.
Thank-You in advance,
Jake

Click to expand...

How about the possibility of rent the rest of the hangar out to another airplane? If the waiting list is that long, surely there are others waiting. This would lessen the cost burden considerably. I just hate to see a nice home-built sit outside anywhere.
And others are right. If the airplane is not flown, don't turn the prop at all per Lycoming Service Bulletin L180B.

Thanks guys for all your help,
I may be able to find a "friend" and name him on my insurance.. However, I would ask him to noly fly a specific number of hours- possibly even let him pay for a portion of gas... All things to think about.

I have considered hanger sharing when I was thinking about building an Eze a while back (not an airplane that fits my mission so much) anyways- Depending on the airplane and the hangar I actually get, assuming the available one will be gone by the time I buy, but another may become available- that would determine the type of plane i could share with. The RV-4 isnt too big, but I wouldnt want to chance damaging both planes if we overexerted the hanger space!
Does anyone know RVers up in Northern WA? I know theres a few guys at Fairview or something- there is a builder assist shop there too.
Another item to consider is- perhaps I could rent hangar space from someone on a private airstrip? Im not sure how that would work out- but i have time to exercise all my options!

My 2 cents

I was in a similar situation with my -4 at times - long, frequent deployments and expensive hangar space. So here are two simple truths I learned:

1. If you can't afford to hangar an airplane, then you can't afford an airplane.

2. If you won't be flying it regularly, then you shouldn't be buying an airplane.

Even when you're not deployed there will be other more important things that compete for your free time. The rain and salt will wither your airplane outside and it will depreciate fast.

If you wait a few years until your life is more stable, the whole experience we'll be much more enjoyable.

Anyway, just a heavy dose of reality you probably had no desire to hear

Mike

Jake,

There are a couple of other options, but it would require getting to know some people. You might want to take a trip down to Arlington (KAWO), there are a lot of RV's there. I know of a few people who haved shared hangars, there are some of the hangars that will hold 2 or 3 RVs. I had a friend who had an RV-4 who shared a hangar with 2 other RV-4s. They were also comfortable sharing each others airplanes and so such an arrangement could result in an airplane getting exercised regularly.

Skagit (KBVS) also has some larger hangars that would likely have room to share. The drawback here is that phone and email isn't going to get you in the right door, you need to spend time hanging out at the airport and meet the right people.

If you would like to come down to Arlington some Saturday I could probable introduce you to some people who may (or may not) be able to help.

I just bought an RV-4 and am learning about its care and feeding. In fact, I even think I am going to be totally masochistic and build one.

Uuuh Ouch!

mikkee1 said:

I was in a similar situation with my -4 at times - long, frequent deployments and expensive hangar space. So here are two simple truths I learned:

1. If you can't afford to hangar an airplane, then you can't afford an airplane.

2. If you won't be flying it regularly, then you shouldn't be buying an airplane.

Even when you're not deployed there will be other more important things that compete for your free time. The rain and salt will wither your airplane outside and it will depreciate fast.

If you wait a few years until your life is more stable, the whole experience we'll be much more enjoyable.

Anyway, just a heavy dose of reality you probably had no desire to hear

Mike

Click to expand...

Oh man, the truth really hurts! Some good advice there Jake. You can rent a really nice aircraft & be ahead of the game. That will save you $$ and stress from worrying about your bird.
Good luck & thank you & your crew for your service.
Cheers,

Thank you guys again for the tips,

Mikkee1- you are 100% accurate in the truth, however, I really do not have any other commitments other than work. I am single, no children, and enjoy fixing and working on many projects in my abundant homecycle free time. (restored a couple cars, build R/C planes, refurbished a sailboat and learned to sail... )
I have, for the past two years, done nothing but work, go to school, and fly. I have spent quite a bit on rentals and flying clubs and do not often fly with passenger, tho there are a few occasions where I do and if I owned a plane it would happen more often.
I feel that I am in a good a point as any to start a flying project or buy an RV.
-I have, since this thread was published, found a couple good hanger deals and decided to Not leave a plane outside, the $230 a month is well worth it.-

I would like to acquire an airplane before the wife and kids come along, a little easier decision to make being single

@ArlingtonRV - I will be home in December and will come see you on a nice Saturday for sure! I have considered a co-op hanger deal- and it may prove to be even more cost effective in the end. Plus a few good guys to shoot the breeze with on deck.
I grew up flying in to the Arlington EAA Fly In every summer with my friend and his Cardinal (I washed the airplane for my ticket) and once I was old enough to drive I drove myself to stay even longer oogling at all the fancy homebuilt airplanes. I even got a few rides, unfortunately No RVs tho... I was too shy to ask I suppose. In awe of the 'celebrity' pilots who could build their own airplane.
At any rate- I will be in the Navy another 4 years now in WA and much longer if they let me (they will have to kick me out someday- Im not going anywhere...Except up maybe) and I have been very fortunate to get an amazing job and work with lots of good people.
Flying has always been my passion and I think now is a good time to get into my own airplane. Whether I build or fly, or both (see masochistic* haha).

Affordability is relative. I can always cut out things I do not need (weekend parties with the guys/car payment/ fancy clothes/ cool cell phones) and in turn save a load of money and fund what really drives me.
It will be an interesting journey.

Exxon Elite 20/50 oil helps a bit to fight internal corrosion in an engine that isn't flown frequently. I used in in my Cherokee when it was only getting flown about once a month, and for the last year I owned it, only put 16 hours on it. Its engine was still shiny clean inside when I sold it, so there is some truth to their advertising hype that it's good to use in infrequently-flown engines. Still, the engine really needs to be run up to full operating temps for at least 15-20 minutes every few weeks... probably more frequently in a humid climate.

IMHO, storing an RV outdoors is not very good, it will undoubtedly suffer damage from that. For storage, an RV needs to be cared for much like a rag & tube aircraft if you don't want it to deteriorate from the elements.

Get out!

Hi again Jake,

When I built my RV4 in 97' I was living in DC and on a tight budget. I couldn't afford to paint or hangar my RV4. The answer was to treat it with corrosion-X and have a cover made. A full-body cover that is...
Bruce of Bruce's custom covers made me a RV4 cover that literally covered the entire airframe, stem to stern. It took about 15 minutes to install and 5 to remove. I had my RV4 outside for 2 years in rain, heat, cold and Nor-Easters with nary a scratch. Later I would sell the cover to my best bro and his RV4 had it on in Tucson for 4 more years!

There are always options!

V/R
Smokey

keeping your RV outside

I parked my RV3 outside on the ramp at PAE (Everett WA) for seven years. This area is 600feet up from the Puget Sound waterways, and that seemed to eliminate the salt corrosion problem. I monitored the airframe and borescoped the engine regularly - no problems at all. The brake discs will rust, but flying once a week will keep them from pitting. I had an old primer-only coat of paint on it (Dupont Variprime), which faded in the sun and washed off in the rain, but I got it properly painted about 18 months ago and the crew reported no corrosion problems at all on the outer skins. My inner skins are all primered with the same stuff used on float-planes, so no problem internally. I did everything out there on the ramp - oil changes, propeller swaps, carburator changes, new exhaust pipes, annuals - I even took the plane apart for painting and put it back together afterwards, all out there on the ramp! You get to know weather patterns intimately - when you can do maintenance and when to stay home. I got a big umbrella to put up over the engine area when changing oil and whatnot in the hot summer sun. That doesn't work in windy conditions, however, but you stay home when it's too windy anyway.

Fly it at least once a week and change oil regularly (I used Exxon Elite), and it should be fine. Lots of airplanes park out there - why not an RV??

- Steven
700+ RV3 hours
(another hour yesterday!)

P.S. I recently got a hanger at PAE and love it! But I'll never forget life on the ramp, and how tuned into the weather and outdoor environment you can get!

P.P.S. I used covers for the canopy, engine and prop. A good local cover vendor is:


Aviation Covers, Inc.
18712 59th. Dr. NE
Arlington, WA 98223

Ph# 1-800-940-0342
Ph# 1-360-435-0342
Fax# 1-360-435-7405
http://www.aviationcovers.com/

keeping your RV outside ...

... and oh, btw, use two covers on the canopy. If you use just one, condensation will form under the cover and the canopy will get drippy wet. Also, a single cover will beat against the canopy in the wind and can scuff it (which I found out the hard way). Two covers keeps everything dry and pristine.

-Steven

Have you considered outside tiedown when you're at home and maybe, since you're out of town anyway, hangar out-of-town while deployed. Since you're gone for months anyway what about hangarspace somewhere like Moses Lake, Wenatchee or even Spokane. Yes, a thousand miles away from Whidbey but a much drier climate and maybe even cheaper hangar fees.

Just curious, where do you plan on parking the RV outside? Whidbey's aero club or is there another location close by?