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Andrew Griffin

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I just saw this on the innodyn website. Thought people might be interested.

First Customer-Installed Aircraft Takes Flight

At approximately 0800 MDT on Friday, 4 August 2006, the first private-party aircraft with an Innodyn turbine lifted off and began flight operations in Colorado. The Van?s RV-8T is fitted with the Innodyn 205TE and a three bladed MT propeller. Images below show the aircraft prior to first flight. The owner?s comment was ?The turbine worked great, and we were up about 15 minutes and reached an altitude of about 9,000 ft.? Additional images, video, and comments from the builder/owner will be posted in the near future.

(posted: 08/04/06)

For more info and a picture visit:

http://www.innodyn.com/aviation/news_archives/news_08_04_06_01.htm
 
Interesting.
I wish this guy was active on the internet - it would be nice to hear his thoughts "straight from the horses mouth"
Surely someone in CO has seen this thing??
Too bad there are no N numbers visible on the airplane...

Thomas
 
Looks like the nose is out there a bit. Looks good but what does it do to the C.G.? Does the single pilot have to fly from the rear seat?
 
The reason the nose is so long is that the thing only weighs 188 pounds. It has to be out there to get the CG correct. Less weigh needs a longer arm.

Somebody out there in CO needs to find this guy!
 
That HAS to need more vertical fin area. That long nose must negatively affect directional stability. Dorsal or ventral fins?
 
More Info??

It's really hard to beleive the first turbine powered RV8 flew Friday morning and, out of 4,000+ members and 5,000+ lurkers, nobody on this forum knows a thing about it other than the previously posted news blurb?! It flew for 15 minutes three days ago, a weekend has gone by, with no talk of other flights? Seems like someone ought to know something! Come on, lets hear it!! Inquiring minds want to know!
 
Hmmmm...if anyone knows where it is, I can probably make the approriate contacts in the closest EAA chapter and arrange to see this thing. I live just north of Denver. Have Cessna, will travel.

According to the Innodyn website, they have signed an LOA with Firewall Forward in Ft. Collins to provide a packaged installation kit with cowl, so perhaps this airplane is based there. Of course that also raises the question of the status of the agreement as FF goes through a reorganization.

Dave
 
Yes

Dave,
I spoke with a guy at Innodyn and he said that it was near Denver. He said performance was outstanding but that the NACA type inlet needs work (or a total redesign). It apparently doesn't allow enough airflow since that engine needs around 24 cu. ft/sec. (Not a typo).

My PT-6 powered Air Tractor (.com) has a huge scoop under the belly and two big Kenworth air filters for comparison. I think the Innodyn installation on the 8 needs a scoop close to the prop. Turbines are great big air hogs anyway,
 
FUEL consumption

Who cares how much air the thing breathes (unless its more than the combined cooling and combution air than for say an IO360...i.e more drag). The thing we all want to know is whats this thing going to guzzle in dollars per hour.

A question that Innodyn has ignored to this date as far as i am aware.

Lets find the owner

Frank

RV7a...sent off the inspection request today.
 
Fuel consumption

Their site shows 7 gal per 100 HP/hour or 14 gallons for 200 HP. You can run it on avgas, kerosene or diesel or a blend. You'll also be travelling around 200 knots with that pointy nose and 188 lb engine in an RV.
 
Fuel flow

Ya I know what the website says...I also know that anyone who has ever flown a turbine tells me that fuel flow figure is absolutly incredible...

Not saying it won't perform to those numbers, just no one believes it will.

Frank
 
You know, put a belly scoop on that (for air conditioning) and it *really* starts to look like a P-51. Won't sound like it, but still....looks pretty close.

first_private_flight.jpg


b,
d
 
DeltaRomeo said:
You know, put a belly scoop on that (for air conditioning) and it *really* starts to look like a P-51. Won't sound like it, but still....looks pretty close.

first_private_flight.jpg


b,
d
Click to expand...

Now, why did the put they outlet there... on the belly, ok, but there, you'll be scrubbing jet exhaust off both the side of the fuselage *and* the top of the wing...
 
:eek:

Looks like a Photo Shop edit of my -8 before the paint job. Longer nose+ standard sized empennage=lotsa yawing. Maybe?

Hope it works out for them, but it sure does look Snarky.
 
Anyone have any guesses as to the cost of this type of engine cowl? I like it and it would certainly be different.
 
Mystery solved (maybe)

I decided to track down this turbine RV-8 since I'm bored. I kind of feel like I'm invading somebody's privacy, but, oh well.

I used Dan C's RV Finder and searched all the RV-8's that popped up within 250 miles of Denver and found one that lists it's engine as a turbofan. Now, I'm not saying this is THE one, but the odds are it is. Here's the link to what I found:
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNumSQL.asp?NNumbertxt=333JB

It's in Avon CO, names on the link above, won't say it outloud here.
 
Great looking airplane!... I wonder when one of these rocket builders will put the 255 horse turbine on one of their planes? :cool:
 
Awesome

If only it flies, behaves and feeds as advertised-----what a plane!!!!!

Unfortunately we say more or less the same things about our teenagers and we generally know how that turns out!!!

Good luck Jim Benson---hopefully you will surface and be our jet fueled, 22000 rpm hero!!
 
I wonder when one of these rocket builders will put the 255 horse turbine on one of their planes?
Click to expand...

That was my intent but it wasn't ready then and all the current rocket builders will be tooo old when it is.

The thing we all want to know is whats this thing going to guzzle in dollars per hour
Click to expand...

The fuel flow on their site has never been backed up with flight data. I have been following these guys for years and no progress to date. What we all know is that their posted numbers do not box with the energy required to generate the stated HP.

They have been playing with a fuel controller that feeds fuel based on a square wave input and they vary the duration as well as the frequency. The apparent problem is when the fuel flow gets down to acceptable levels the turbine blades heat up and hit the can. This ain't good.

According to the Innodyn website, they have signed an LOA with Firewall Forward
Click to expand...

They have done this at least once before.


It flew for 15 minutes three days ago, a weekend has gone by, with no talk of other flights?
Click to expand...


They have had one in an RV4 and a cub for years and still no data. Doubt we will get much data from the "private individual" I find it odd that the flight and announcement came just after OSH.

Greg Richter BMA actually put money into the predecessor of innodyn and has dibbs on one of the 1st production engines. He doubts it is ready for prime time.


They still have not figured out a way to control power to the prop and it is doubtful they will be able to compete with the fuel flow of a recip which at todays prices is becoming more important.

Don't read me wrong I am not against innovation. The thought of a turbine RV8 or F1 makes me drool. I just do not think you can bend the laws of thermodynamics enough to make it competetive from a fuel and cost standpoint.
 
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I've been following them (with the occational live conversation for a real time update) for about 2 years as well and I for one am excited to see them putting another engine in an RV! However, I'm with Milt on the lack of public info on the RV-4 and the RV-6A that they had installed in the past.

I can't imagine that if there were serious problems with the power at the prop or over heating at lower flow rates that they would even try to deliver one to a customer. ...could be wrong though. I wish they would talk to us and tell us what's up!

We have all earned the right to ask them for more detail after following them for so long. HEY INNODYN - We're all excited about your work, your turbine and understand that innovation is tough, time consuming work. We're talking about it here because we're interested. Give us an update so we can continue believing in your engine!

- Peter
 
I spoke with an Jet Engine Enginer from a big place in Connecticut. He said he looked at the program and there isn't enough stages in the engine to keep the fuel burn reasonable. He said it would never work economically.
 
The best thing about turbines is their reliability and lack of vibration. Take the Pilatus for example. It looks like a single engine King Air! It's interesting that this engine will burn all those type of fuels. I remember that a PT-6 could burn 100LL, but the engine was limited to a certain number of hours of that 100LL, during one overhaul cycle.

I wonder about the speeds though. ...200kts? Isn't that getting a bit close to Vne for the -8?
 
Thanks Andy for bringing this to our attention; its an exciting development in powerplants thats for sure and a very innovative one at that.

It will be very interesting to see the fuel consumption figures as they become available. In the meantime it would be reasonable to assume that it will be most efficient "at altitude" and will certainly further open up the skies for the RV.

Does anyone have technical info on an article in circulation concerning control flutter experienced in the RV aeroplanes fitted with turbine engines? I don't have any more info than that to go on so any info would be greatly appreciated.

You'd have to install one for the engine sound alone......................

Thanks in advance,

Cam.
 
I was wondering if after all of the initial discussion if anyone ended up tracking down the owner of the Turbine 8 and had a chat to him/her?

It would certainly be interesting to hear from a "customer". Maybe then we might get some actual fuel flow info and details on how the thing actually flys.

If anyone does get a chance to talk to the owner could you please let us know. I'm more curious than anything...
 
Side by side test is the only way to go

N395V said:
Don't read me wrong I am not against innovation. The thought of a turbine RV8 or F1 makes me drool. I just do not think you can bend the laws of thermodynamics enough to make it competitive from a fuel and cost standpoint.
Click to expand...
Thank you, well put. The fuel control and prop set up from what I know sounds very experimental. As far as the first customer RV-8T, I would only believe independant flight test side by side with a piston powered RV-8, with controlled flight profiles.

It is so hard to compare bananas and lettuce. You have to talk a direct comparison to get real usable numbers. Van has devised and used a few simple side by side test to compare engines (Rotary, Subaru) to a Lyc.
 
Data?

The fuel control and prop set up from what I know sounds very experimental.
Click to expand...
More like very dangerous from what I know!
Seems to me, as exiting as it would be to have the first flying turbine -8, nearly a month would not have gone by with absolutely no more information what so ever. Not even a wimper about any more flights, going good, going bad, nothing! Makes you kinda wonder what's been going on! Someone surely has to know something, doesn't make since they wouldn't be talking about it.
 
It's coming....

Hi Billy and others,
I decided to take it on myself to contact the owner of the RV 8T and after a little small talk, informed me that it will be sporting new airscoops shortly since the NACA ducts couldn't provide the necessary 24 cu. ft./min the engine needs. He said that it was incredibly smooth and a great flying airplane.

I encouraged him to visit this site, join the forum and let us know. He said he would so expect him here in a day or two.
Regards,
 
Negative.....

Hi Cam,
It's been around two weeks since I had that brief conversation with him. He sounds a bit like a "Phleg"........very private, so I'm having second thoughts about just how to approach him since he hasn't given us anything although he said he would. I do know that he is party to the development and possible marketing structure as a business venture from the indications he gave..........Stay tuned........ :D
 
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