What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

This Was Fun... aerobatics video

groucho

Well Known Member
New video?18 rolls, 3 loops, 4 cloverleaves, 1 split-s, 4 Immelmans & 1 spin.

I posted my last video a little over a month ago. After 4 weekends in Alaska for a work trip, I?m back & just put together another video of me doing aerobatics in my -6. The camera is my soon-to-be tailcam 170deg wide-angle bullet camera mounted with a RAM-Mount in the cockpit. The video for this release was shot on a single 30 minute flight - no footage was repeated.

If I can bring myself to do it, I?ll start cutting into my vertical tail on the 4th to mount the camera.

When I finished putting this video together & played it on our big tv, my wife (aka ?Tanya Productions?) asked if I was going to buy another bullet camera once I had this one mounted in the tail??You?re going to need a second one to shoot video from the cockpit still, right?? I love my wife. :D

DISCLAIMER: All flying was done in VFR conditions following all FARs. 1500? AGL, greater than 4nm from an airway, not over airports or populated areas, no non-chute wearing passengers, no traffic, etc. Don?t try this at home. If you do, be smart about it & don?t mort yourself out trying. :cool:

The video is ?This Was Fun?? here: http://www.thedukes.org/rv/video.html

My tailcam project info is here: http://www.thedukes.org/rv/tailcam.html

Enjoy!
 
Thats disgusting!

I mean, I bet your heartrate didn't exceed 75 the whole time, gee it even looked like you didn't bother to cinch down your harness!

Thats beautiful Bryan, I must say i was eagerly waiting your new video and I'm currently doing the "not worthy" wave here in my office....:)

Well I'm off to aerobatic school in 2 weeks and I can hardly wait...I'm sure my face has a slightly different expression during aileron rolls, at least at the moment...:)

Thanks for the motivation and the camera tips!

Cheers

Frank 7a
 
Yes

frankh said:
I mean, I bet your heartrate didn't exceed 75 the whole time, gee it even looked like you didn't bother to cinch down your harness!





Frank 7a

Goes to show you what you can do without negative G's. Very nice.

Pierre
 
Beautiful work, Bryan! And thanks to you, I think I may have found the make and model of bullet camera I'm going to use! :)
 
That depends

pierre smith said:
Goes to show you what you can do without negative G's. Very nice.

Pierre

When my passenger rolled the plane inverted and made use of the "detatchable stick" feature...I would call him my CFI but no one could be dumb enough to do that especially as he was waving the stick at me as we taxied to the active...."No if you do anything wrong I'm going to beat you with this thing"

Airplane was quite happy upside down...Can't quite say the same for myself.

Frank 7a, inverted fuel and oil.
 
Great EVERYTHING on this video, Bryan.

Just in from a short flight in my RV-6, but the clouds weren't high enough to permit some upside down... sigh...

Killer video, again. My best to the production company.

b,
d
 
Beautiful video! I think I'm going to leave work early to pound some rivets...

Just curious, where did you learn acro? I always wonder when I see acro videos whether the pilot has a military or purely civilian background.

Thanks,
 
Spindrift said:
Beautiful video! I think I'm going to leave work early to pound some rivets...

Just curious, where did you learn acro? I always wonder when I see acro videos whether the pilot has a military or purely civilian background.

Thanks,

Check out his camera section of his webpage and you'll see him dressed in military flight suit... :)

Excellent video, thanks for sharing...
 
Military

Spindrift said:
Beautiful video! I think I'm going to leave work early to pound some rivets...

Just curious, where did you learn acro? I always wonder when I see acro videos whether the pilot has a military or purely civilian background.

Thanks,

The answer is here: http://www.thedukes.org/tanya.html Just scroll through the pictures.

Pierre
 
Awesome!

Bryan,
Excellent video. I love the first one too! I watch it all the time for inspiration!!!!
Keep up the great work with your videos and the byproduct of keeping us RV wannabees motivated.
Regards,
 
Holy cow, thanks for all the responses everyone. You are all too kind. You guys nailed the training background...I've been lucky enough to use some of your tax dollars for time in lots of military airplanes (thanks!). It all started with my VariEze though. I owned it from 96 to 00 & survived a little acro in it. During & after the Vari was a slew of military stuff - mostly F-15's & now F-16's, but a few hours in a bunch of different planes. The RV is a great plane for this kind of aerobatics & I completely love it. My wife completely loves that I don't take her flying when I want to do aerobatics. :cool:

Like Pierre said, everything in my last two videos was positve g's only. My plane doesn't have inverted fuel or oil. Since I really don't like flying powered airplanes that aren't making engine noise, I keep things on the plus side...about 0.5g or higher seems to keep everything happy (and me in the seat). I do run with the electric boost pump on for a little "just in case." Everything was below 4g's.

Frank, you're right about the harness. I didn't notice it until you mentioned, but it sure looks like I could have been better strapped in. Gotta fix that.

Buck (& all), the camera's great, but it's a fairly big as far as bullet cameras go. My wife won't let me call it a lipstick camera any more. It's a little over an inch in diameter up by the lens. Still, it's plenty small enough for what I need. Super Circuits calls it a 480 line camera, but other companies sell cameras with the same sensor & call it 520 or 560 lines. Whatever...it shoots ok video I think. The super wide angle of the camera is what I really like. I makes by low level shots look not-so low level, but I'll live with it!

DR, thanks again for the front page billing. Sorry to hear about your clouds.

As for my heart rate, during my FAA medical today it registered at 62. I'm sure it was up to at least 75 though during the acro. :D

The hardest part about all this video stuff is finding a song that some people will like & at the same time most people won't hate. Nobody will replay the video if the absolutely hate the background tunes. I probably spent as much time song hunting as actually editing the video!

Thanks again everyone. No promises on timing of the next release. I do have about 5 minutes of unused footage from the "A Day Off Work" day, so I might throw together "A Day Off Work 2."
 
Barrel roll?

Brian,
Thanks so much.....it's really appreciated. Could you walk me through a barrel roll? I have a lot of acro experience but my barrels end up more like wallowy aileron rolls. A friend (ex Naval pilot) says to start with a reference off one wing and pull elevator and aileron until the nose is pointing at the ref, inverted and continue with pretty much the same inputs all the way around. Your ideas?

Thanks in advance,
Pierre
 
You know what would be great...

What would be really great would be if some of you more experienced RV pilots would use these good video platforms that you have and shoot some instructional videos. You know, the basic stuff - how takeoffs, landings and the usual checkride type stuff are done in RVs... Narrated, it would be a great help to some of us lesser experienced pilots. Also, a narrated video of how some of the test flights should be done. Give us some split screen of the instruments and the view out of the cockpit.

--Ralph
 
Last edited:
groucho said:
The hardest part about all this video stuff is finding a song that some people will like & at the same time most people won't hate. Nobody will replay the video if the absolutely hate the background tunes. I probably spent as much time song hunting as actually editing the video!QUOTE]

Good work on the music, I especially like the first video, Day off work, with Avirl Lavigne!
 
Pierre & all- I've been thinking about that exact thing. Putting together a series of how-to videos would be fun. In fact, I started writing scripts for them a couple weeks ago. The thing I'm trying to figure out is stupid liability. Hate saying that. Despite the fact that the USAF has let me teach people how to fly the F-15 & F-16, I am not a CFI. So you may not get to hear any instruction from me. The odd thing is, there's no requirement that I've found to learn aerobatics from a CFI. We'll see.

NOT INSTRUCTION: The majority of the rolls in the video are a cross between an aileron roll & barrel rolls. They wouldn't get any points at an aerobatic competition, but they are easy & generally keep the engine running. I like starting at over 160mph IAS with the airplane trimmed for level flight, then pulling about 2g to 10-15deg nose high. Once I'm 10-15deg nose high, I relax all back stick pressure so that the airplane is back at 1g (or slightly less). That last step is critical for not ending up excessively nose low. If you are 15deg nose high & start your roll at 2g, you'll end up pointed at the ground by the time you are done. Start your roll at 1g. Fly your roll at 1g. End your roll at 1g. From there, roll with stick only with the rudders centered. For roll input, I generally increase side pressure on the stick until I feel this stick force change from smooth force to a slight buffet (little bit of separation on the ailerons). The danger here (and common trend for new guys) is not getting enough roll rate. If in doubt, push the stick to the stop. Continue the roll until the plane is back to wings level. Once wings level, you'll find yourself 10-15deg nose low. Center the stick in roll then smoothly increase backstick pressure to approximately 2g. Relax all backstick pressure once the plane is level. Smile.

A true barrel roll requires a mix of continually changing elevator & aileron inputs. To over simplify, I start by picking a point on the horizon about 30 deg left of the nose (since I usually sit on the left side of my -6). Throughout the maneuver, I apply inputs as required to keep that landmark exactly in the same position on the canopy. You will get more nose low & nose high in a barrel roll than the previous roll I described. So, if you pick a spot 30deg left as your reference, you'll start your pull & roll to the left. When you are 90 deg left bank, you'll be 30 deg nose high. When you are inverted, you'll be level. When you are 90 deg right bank, you'll be 30 deg nose low. When you are back to wings level, you'll be level pointed back where you started.
END OF NOT INSTRUCTION

Important things to think about are the FARs. Review & obide by 91.303, 91.307 & anything else you can find. Some, but not all, of the other important things to think about are your skill levels, unusual attitude & spin recoveries, g-limits on your plane & what your goals are in starting to learn aerobatics.

panhandler1956 said:
Good work on the music, I especially like the first video, Day off work, with Avirl Lavigne!
Thanks. Yeah, that song is a fun one. I'm pretty sure she wrote her latest single "Girlfriend" to me...too bad for her I'm not getting rid of my wife. ;)
 
Last edited:
NOT AN INSTRUCTION

NOT AEROBATIC INSTRUCTION REQUEST

Again, I am not necessarily asking you, Groucho, for aerobatic instructional videos... I am asking for someone who has a similar video setup to make demonstration (not "instruction") videos. Someone who has an ATP / CFI and like 50 years of flying experience to show us how basic flying in an RV is done.

END OF NOT AEROBATIC INSTRUCTION REQUEST

--Ralph
 
:D Of course! I might make an "entertainment" series...

I had only really thought about an aerobatic series. You're right though, there's probably interest in all aspects of RV flying...from takeoff to landing & everything in between. There's a lot out there on building, but not nearly as much on the actual flying. Too bad I don't have an ATP, CFI & 50 years of flying experience.
 
groucho said:
NOT INSTRUCTION: The majority of the rolls in the video are a cross between an aileron roll & barrel rolls. They wouldn't get any points at an aerobatic competition, but they are easy & generally keep the engine running. I like starting at over 160mph IAS with the airplane trimmed for level flight, then pulling about 2g to 10-15deg nose high. Once I'm 10-15deg nose high, I relax all back stick pressure so that the airplane is back at 1g (or slightly less). That last step is critical for not ending up excessively nose low. If you are 15deg nose high & start your roll at 2g, you'll end up pointed at the ground by the time you are done. Start your roll at 1g. Fly your roll at 1g. End your roll at 1g. From there, roll with stick only with the rudders centered. For roll input, I generally increase side pressure on the stick until I feel this stick force change from smooth force to a slight buffet (little bit of separation on the ailerons). The danger here (and common trend for new guys) is not getting enough roll rate. If in doubt, push the stick to the stop. Continue the roll until the plane is back to wings level. Once wings level, you'll find yourself 10-15deg nose low. Center the stick in roll then smoothly increase backstick pressure to approximately 2g. Relax all backstick pressure once the plane is level. Smile.

Bryan, thanks for the explanation on doing a positive G roll in the RV. I have not done much upside down flight since leaving the military many years ago, one gets rusty on this stuff over the years.

I did a roll not long ago from staight and level flight and was surprised how quick the nose dropped during the inverted part. One is inclined to do a bit of forward stick to keep it up but for sure the engine would quit. Pulling up 15-20 degrees before the roll is the obvious answer as is keeping it coming around once the manuever is started, like use those wonderful ailerons.

The EZ's were not good doing this stuff, plenty of elevator but the roll rate was mighty lazy. I got tired of cleaning oil off the outside of the airplane and quit doing it.

The video is great. Enjoy this stuff while you can. The middle ear really gets sensitive after medicare kicks in. :)
 
Business Opportunity for someone (Doug - Dan Checkoway - Paul Dye???)

groucho said:
:D Of course! I might make an "entertainment" series...

I had only really thought about an aerobatic series. You're right though, there's probably interest in all aspects of RV flying...from takeoff to landing & everything in between. There's a lot out there on building, but not nearly as much on the actual flying. Too bad I don't have an ATP, CFI & 50 years of flying experience.

OK, how about this. We get some well known builder with a "video capable" RV sit as an "interviewer / host / passenger / student" while someone like Rich Stowell or some other high instruction time aerobatic/upset recovery / emergency maneuver expert gives instruction in the RV - from basic flying through test flight through aerobatics... this could be big money for someone - I think I'd be willing to pay $300 for a couple of hours of high quality instruction video in an RV - and there are probably thousands of others out there building that would buy it too... Get the EAA involved for video production perhaps... it would be big I tell you...

--Ralph
 
Last edited:
David-aviator said:
I did a roll not long ago from staight and level flight and was surprised how quick the nose dropped during the inverted part. One is inclined to do a bit of forward stick to keep it up but for sure the engine would quit. Pulling up 15-20 degrees before the roll is the obvious answer as is keeping it coming around once the manuever is started, like use those wonderful ailerons.



You've identified the key part of this, as I understand it. I'm not a CFI, but have had this pounded into my rather thick head repeatedly. There are three really important things:

1)Pull the nose up enough before you start. The slower the roll, the higher it needs to be.

2) neutralize the elevators while rolling. Keeping a little positive "g" means the nose will make a little corkscrew on the horizon. Keeping a lot of "g" means the nose makes a really big circle, and winds up pointing straight down at some point.

3) Keep the aileron input in. Many people at first tend to relax when they get upside down, and the nose then drops straight down, where the ground is. This is a good reason to have an instructor in the back seat to slap the back of your head.

Don't try this alone for the first time--it's really easy to screw something up. Once learned however, it's easy and fun. I rarely fly my airplane without at least one roll.

Here is a very short clip of the tail during a roll. It's hard to see on the compressed web video, but if you look closely, you can see the elevator go up for the initial pull, then neutralize just before beginning the roll. After 360 degrees of roll, the nose is below the horizon (tail above) and the elevator is used to recover from the shallow dive.

Note that the rudder barely moves--in the RVs, it really doesn't need to unless you're pretty slow.
 
flyeyes said:
Don't try this alone for the first time--it's really easy to screw something up. Once learned however, it's easy and fun.
That's a great safety tip. Learning from someone who knows aerobatics will make things a lot safer.

Have fun,
 
Darn it Bryan!

Those are some great shots! I would thank you for posting them but now I need to go and order a short wing RV. Tell me again why I built a -9?
 
Thanks guys. Bill, I'm not sure why you built a -9. :D Seriously, they're all great airplanes...the -6 is still a long wing compared to the Rockets, remember!?
 
Thanks Groucho

As a pilot building an 8A and with limited aerobatic experience I really appreciate your sharing your knowledge here. I have rolled RVs a few times (Thanks Doug for the rolls in Flash) but I never understood the details of the manuver as you explained them. I hope that you will share more with us on the topic of aerobatics in an RV.

I think that Doug has a section here for "articles". It would be great to have a place for articles on aerobatics so we aerobatic novices could benefit from the knowledge and experience of those who are experts at it. Understanding of course that what we read here is not a substitute for actual instruction, but it does provide knowledge that will make actual instruction more meaningful.

By the way, why do you do a 2G pullup to raise the nose instead of a more gentle climb (other than it is more fun)? I suspect that it has something to do with "loading" although I am not clear about that concept.

Perhaps you will be kind enough to tell us about the loops next.....then maybe cuban 8's etc.

Thanks again and keep posting.
 
Last edited:
tonyjohnson said:
By the way, why do you do a 2G pullup to raise the nose instead of a more gentle climb (other than it is more fun)? I suspect that it has something to do with "loading" although I am not clear about that concept.
Thanks Tony. The g on the pullup for the roll is totally up to you. 1.5-2g gets you there fairly quickly without losing much energy prior to your roll. Much more than 2 & you might overshoot your aimpoint (i.e. start to get sloppy).

I have some tail-modifying to do on my plane. Once that's done I'll get things moving on some more videos. Soon!
 
Duuuuuuuude!!!!

I used to hate that song.Now I kinda like it a little.Very nice cutting on your video,I like the transitions and the way it flowed with the song, not to mention the aviating.I've been thinking alot about the mounts i will build for my airplane someday to achieve cool angles and like the idea of over-the-shoulder\down,(so as to include control inputs and avionics), "splitscreen" with a tailcam to really cram the whole experience into short vids.You guys wont believe the amount of equipment that is aplicable and available ,to anybody that wants it,to mount your cameras anyway you want.In the film industry we put VERY expensive and HEAVY cameras in the most extreme\strange places you can believe.If you want to get ahold of catalogues or brochures drop me a PM and I'll turn you on to the companies.PEACE BE WITH YOU.
 
RV Grin?

Bryan, great video. But, come'on, you do grin when you are doing a roll when not on the camera, right?!?!? :D
 
AlexPeterson said:
Bryan, great video. But, come'on, you do grin when you are doing a roll when not on the camera, right?!?!? :D
I'm always grinning on the inside! There are a couple grins in the video...I hope. ;)
 
Bryan,

This is my first post on this forum. I had to let you know how much I enjoyed
seeing your wedsite and watching your videos. They are very well done. I have been looking at purchasing a flying RV8, and now have renewed excitement in this pursuit. Keep this stuff coming.

Gary
 
Ralph Kramden said:
OK, how about this. We get some well known builder with a "video capable" RV sit as an "interviewer / host / passenger / student" while someone like Rich Stowell or some other high instruction time aerobatic/upset recovery / emergency maneuver expert gives instruction in the RV - from basic flying through test flight through aerobatics... this could be big money for someone - I think I'd be willing to pay $300 for a couple of hours of high quality instruction video in an RV - and there are probably thousands of others out there building that would buy it too... Get the EAA involved for video production perhaps... it would be big I tell you...

--Ralph


Hi Ralph, et al.,

Don't know about the "big money," but I'd certainly be game for that (thanks for the mention, BTW)!

In fact, a recent student of mine who flies a Cirrus SR22 and is a retired electrical engineer is working on a system using a lipstick-type camera and a compact digital recorder that records video directly onto a memory stick for later transfer onto a CD.

Once he has the system up and running with the bugs worked out, that might be a nice way to do something like this. One could have two or three lipstick-type cameras quick-mounted in the airplane (showing over the nose, wingtip, and cockpit views) wired to three very small recorders zipped into a flight suit pocket(s), thus generating several views of various maneuvers simultaneously.

Something to think about anyway.

Rich
www.richstowell.com
 
A bunch of people have asked for more details on the seutp I've used for my last two videos. For everyone's amusement/info, I just updated my tailcam page with all the current details & answers to many of the questions I've been asked.

Here ya go: http://www.thedukes.org/rv/tailcam.html
 
Too cool

Mornin' Bryan,
I watched the new video really carefully and noticed at times that full aileron travel, or nearly so, was used, judging by the amount of deflection.

Question: What type of maneuver was done when you went vertical then applied aileron? Barrel roll maybe?

Thanks,
Pierre
 
pierre smith said:
Question: What type of maneuver was done when you went vertical then applied aileron? Barrel roll maybe?
Those are quarter cloverleafs (cloverleaves?). It's basically a loop with a quarter roll when you are pointing straight up. They work great for showing the world spinning around for the video clips looking backwards. There's one shot in there that I did a half roll in the almost-vertical instead of a quarter roll.

Have fun!
 
rstowell said:
Hi Ralph, et al.,

Don't know about the "big money," but I'd certainly be game for that (thanks for the mention, BTW)!

. . .

Something to think about anyway.

Rich
www.richstowell.com

It needs to be high quality and professional - like that TV series on the Discovery channel a few years back (can't remember the name) that followed the flight training of a woman (was the wife of the videographer).

-- Ralph
 
Short answer...It depends..:)

You don't need one when flying by yourself but you both need to wear 'chutes when you carry a passenger.

Frank
 
groucho said:
I'm always grinning on the inside! There are a couple grins in the video...I hope. ;)
Bryan,

Jack Hakes gave me my first RV ride in his/your airplane in 1992 while I was stationed at Edwards. It was all downhill from there! :D

Glad to see the airplane is still going strong...

Dave
 
Thermos said:
Jack Hakes gave me my first RV ride in his/your airplane in 1992 while I was stationed at Edwards. It was all downhill from there! :D

Glad to see the airplane is still going strong...
Great!! Jack built a wonderful airplane & we're lucky to have it. It's been awesome. When we bought Tanya & I decided that we weren't going to change anything. Six months later, I gutted the panel & the majority of the wiring in the plane. Old Loran out! Glass in! It just hit 900 hours since new - about 700 by Jack & 200 by me. I definitely need to fly it more!
 
Back
Top