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Phosphorous

woxofswa

Well Known Member
I've had 5 oil analysis's done on my engine. The first three by one vendor and the last two by a different vendor. (Lab one).

On the first three there were no reports of phosphorous, but on the last two, they were 15 and 20 respectively. The oil has always been x/c 20/50 since break in.

All five have been deemed to be "normal".

The lack of a phosphorous report on the first three could just be that the first lab doesn't scan for that.

I'm just curious if any of the brain trust might know how phosphorous finds its way into the oil and what it is a sign of if it gets a high reading. Thanks in advance.
 
Savvy aviator #21, checking oil

http://www.avweb.com/news/savvyaviator/190242-1.html

For example, I recently got back a report from Blackstone that showed a big jump in phosphorus levels from what I'd been used to seeing. That concerned me for a moment (what the heck does phosphorus mean?) until I realized what was going on: Turns out that my local oil jobber had run out of Aeroshell W100 oil, so I wound up using a few quarts of Aeroshell W100 Plus as make-up oil. The main difference between W100 and W100 Plus is that the latter has an antiwear additive called triphenyl phosphate (TPP), and that's what was causing the higher phosphorus numbers on my oil report.
 
The main difference between W100 and W100 Plus is that the latter has an antiwear additive called triphenyl phosphate (TPP), and that's what was causing the higher phosphorus numbers on my oil report.

Good to know. Also, the MSDS for Camguard lists unnamed "phosphates? as a trade secret ingredient.
 
I remember chatting with Paul from AeroShell and discussing certain additives and ingredients in oil.

As I recall, phosphorus is added in varying amounts to all blends of oil to mitigate corrosion. It serves as a sacrificial element.

The addition of phosphorus is one of the biggest things that makes aviation oil different from automotive blends. The phosphorus will ruin a catalytic converter in short order.

Don't worry about those levels in your analysis. It probably didn't come from your engine.

:) CJ
 
Good to know. Also, the MSDS for Camguard lists unnamed "phosphates? as a trade secret ingredient.

Dan just wondering here, how much Camguard do you use ( if you do indeed use it) and do you add any between changes. Don't want to highjack the thread but of all I have read on the subject Camguard seems to be the best additive out there.
 
Not to answer for Dan, but I add camguard at every oil change when using Aeroshell straight weight or Phillips X/C. The Aeroshell Plus already has it included, as already noted.

I do not add Camguard until the engine is broken in, usually around 100 hours to be sure. They specifically caution you to not use it on new engines until break in.

Vic
 
I do not add Camguard until the engine is broken in, usually around 100 hours to be sure. They specifically caution you to not use it on new engines until break in.

Vic

Thanks Vic. Good to know. I'm about to break the engine soon and considering its cost I want to treat it like gold.:D
 
Dan just wondering here, how much Camguard do you use ( if you do indeed use it) and do you add any between changes. Don't want to highjack the thread but of all I have read on the subject Camguard seems to be the best additive out there.

I did a little homegrown corrosion test a few years back, and was not convinced that Camguard added anything in that regard. I don't know much about their anti-wear additives, as they are proprietary. Opinions will vary, but independent facts are scarce.

Anyway, I'm flying Aeroshell W15W-50 semi-synthetic. Here's the official doc:

http://www.shell-livedocs.com/data/published/en-US/1d9fde0d-cf24-4b4f-ad73-38c41767f853.pdf
 
Thanks Dan. I ran Aeroshell W15w-50 semi-sym in my last plane with zero problems. I guess I'm searching for that miracle additive ( that probably doesn't exist) that's going to make my engine last forever.:)

Oh that miracle additive absolutely exists. It also comes in very convenient quantities ... Tens, twenties, hundreds, that you can mix and match as you need.
 
Not sure what I want, but I know I want something.

Using Aeroshell 15w50 (which has additives) for 600 hours, I ended up overhauling an engine at 1400 hours. Related, contributory, who knows.

The Camguard mafia talked to me while I was sitting on a milk stool under a bare light bulb in a damp basement, so now I use Phillips x/c 20w50 and Camguard on the overhauled engine (after 50 hours of mineral oil break in). Biggest difference is about $5 less total cost to do an oil change. 300 hours post overhaul no issues noticed, to include oil analysis results.

I might try olive oil next time, with tobasco added to heat things up and get rid of water. :rolleyes:
 
TCP and Phosphorus

Here's another data point. I have always run straight Aeroshell W80 or W100 with Camguard (1.6 oz. per qt.) and my Phosphorus readings have varied from 85 to 180. This last oil change the Phosphorus jumped up to 212 - still in the green - but that concerned me. Then I realized that this was the first analysis since I started using TCP [tricresyl phosphate] in my 100LL. That explains it. BTW, my Silicon readings are still down after switching to a catch bottle to capture the gunk from the air/oil separator rather than returning it to the crankcase.
 
Added data point. Phosphorous and zinc are a big issue in the classic corvette world right now. They mandated reduced levels of phosphorus and zink in auto oils in the last few years. With the new formulas hi po cams were wiping at an alarming rate. Is seems those are the metals that protect flat tappets. Hence the phosphates in camguard. Don't worry about phosphorus numbers.

Bob burns
Rv-4 n82rb
 
Added data point. Phosphorous and zinc are a big issue in the classic corvette world right now. They mandated reduced levels of phosphorus and zink in auto oils in the last few years. With the new formulas hi po cams were wiping at an alarming rate. Is seems those are the metals that protect flat tappets. Hence the phosphates in camguard. Don't worry about phosphorus numbers.

Bob burns
Rv-4 n82rb

This is also why the pushrod v-8's engines got roller followers in 1985. ZDDP It's bad for oxygen sensors too. Slipper follower cams love it.
 
OIL ADDITIVES

Hello All

I've been running my engine with either Shell 15W50 or Philipps 20W50 oil for as long as I can remember..

I've been using AvBlend for many years and been told by Lycon when I got my cylinders ported that the valves guides and valves seats were very clean and to keep on doing that...

But I've been hearing about Camguard and its miracles for a few years now and would like to hear what you guys think I should do ...

Keep on using AvBlend or switch to Camguard or use both ...any thoughts...inquiring mind wants to know..

Thanks

Bruno
 
Keep on using AvBlend or switch to Camguard or use both ...any thoughts...inquiring mind wants to know..

Thanks

Bruno

Take a look at the AvBlend MSDS and you'll find it is >99% mineral oil. That should help you make the decision.
 
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