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Intermittent Warnings on Dynon ...

JerryG150

Well Known Member
My left CHT and left EGT warning lights light went on and off a few times and then went back to normal on my last flight to Sebring. Sebring technicians figured it was probably a sensor or computer chip glitch and I could wait till my next oil change to take a look at it, unless it lite up and stayed on.

Then on my way home from Sebring the AMP and VOLT lite went on and off a few times and then went back to normal. The warning lite and buzzer came on showing the AMP as a -1 or -2. Then the VOLT warning lite and buzzer came on showing VOLTS as 13 then 14 then returned to normal. I'm figuring the sensor again ...

Anyone else have these "gremlins" in their Dynon?

So far 32 hours on my Hobbs ... when I get 40 hours my wife said she'll go for her first ride in my "homebuilt". :)
 
It sounds like a ground wire problem. Check all connections. One builder solved a similar problem by adding a second ground wire between the engine block and firewall.
Joe Gores
 
Jerry,

I agree. Multiple indications indicate a general problem - not specific to a particular sensor. Poor grounding a likely culprit.

John
 
warning buzzer ...

During todays flight from KSRQ to KSEF (40 minute trip on the Hobbs) the warning buzzer went off 5 or 6 times warning of a high voltage ... looked and it was showing 14+ volts ... I kept silencing it . Also CHT and EGT caused the buzzer to sound.

On return trip, the buzzer sounded and I silenced it about 30+ times.

Decided not to wait till next oil change before I have Lockwood techs take a look at it. On my next trip to Sebring, I'll spring for a fix and tell them about the ground wire theory discussed here. Thanks.
 
During todays flight from KSRQ to KSEF (40 minute trip on the Hobbs) the warning buzzer went off 5 or 6 times warning of a high voltage ... looked and it was showing 14+ volts ... I kept silencing it . Also CHT and EGT caused the buzzer to sound.

On return trip, the buzzer sounded and I silenced it about 30+ times.

Decided not to wait till next oil change before I have Lockwood techs take a look at it. On my next trip to Sebring, I'll spring for a fix and tell them about the ground wire theory discussed here. Thanks.

The voltage is supposed to be 14+ volts (probably 14.2 - 14.3). Maybe your warning level setting got changed?

If everything is installed correctly, adding another ground wire will change nothing. Check for the ground wire that is supposed to be attached to the bottom middle screw on the back of the AV-12 switch panel.
 
Voltage is too High

Also check the voltage regulator to make sure that it is well grounded and that there is no paint under it where it is mounted to the firewall shelf.
Joe Gores
 
still perplexed ...

This morning, I flew my -12 from Sarasota, FL to Sebring, FL where I hoped to finally have that buzzer silenced for the high volt readings (and the intermittent low amp, low EGT & low CHT).

They found one loose connection ... put a second ground wire in and when they were done, volts were OK but I had negative amps reading and they said the battery was therefore not charging. So they decided to keep it overnight and in the morning find the reason for the neg amp reading.

Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks ...
 
had negative amps reading and they said the battery was therefore not charging
How negative was it? And what was the RPM? The ammeter is not very precise. I would not pay much attention to the ammeter. As long as the voltage is above 13.5, (14V is better) the battery is being charged. The engine starts so quickly that the battery does not get discharged and thus does not need much charging.
Joe Gores
 
How negative was it? And what was the RPM? The ammeter is not very precise. I would not pay much attention to the ammeter. As long as the voltage is above 13.5, (14V is better) the battery is being charged. The engine starts so quickly that the battery does not get discharged and thus does not need much charging.
Joe Gores

+1

Joe nailed it...... again.
 
I think this is what they did ...

IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, Lockwood Aviation found a couple loose connectors they fixed and I believe they installed a second ground wire from engine to firewall and two more ground wires from "juction box" to the 2 panels (panels being the panels where the avionics are placed into).

I flew home from Sebring this afternoon, and only a couple self correcting warning buzzers sounded for a low (yellow in color) left CHT. I guess I can live with that. :)
 
Speaking of Gremlins

Several months ago while flying along, minding my own business, my oil temp. shot into the red and remained there under any power setting that would allow the 12 to climb. This happened just after the first oil change. The problem then moved to the CHT. IT got to the point that both temps shot into the red on initial climb out. The situation got to the point that the Oil and CHT would go to red during a ground run. Anyway, with help from Dean Vogel of Lockwood's and Jamie Scheimer of Chesapeake Sport Aviation, we determined that the Rotax was behaving and not running hot-good news! A buddy graciously allowed me to use his D-180 and we quickly determined that the problem was in the Dynon. To Dynon's credit, they walked me through some resistance checks that all showed it was working correctly. During this lengthy investigation I purchased a VDO Oil temp. gauge that is compatible with the Rotax Sensors and used it on the oil temp and CHT probes. We also backed it up with a digital contact thermometer and a I/R Dig. Thermometer and found the temps were off an average of 33 degrees throughout the range. The D-180 is on it's way to Dynon and hopefully this story is over. Thankfully, Van's deals with quality vendors and this is being corrected without further issue. Yes, I've see some gremlins! Any of you guys who have hot running 12's might want to give the VDO gauge a try, it was Dean Vogel's and Jamie Sheimer's idea and it worked.
 
still not 100%

On my return flight from Lockwood Aviation, after all the repairs were made, my warning buzzer sounder 3 or 4 times indicating a low left CHT reading ... I silenced it each time.

Then today, a week later, on a flight from Sarasota to Wachula, FL the left CHT buzzer sounder several times again ... mostly during landing. Then when I flew back to Sarasota the left CHT sounded a couple dozen times ... many at landing.

I was going to take my first cross-country to Charlotte but Lockwood Aviation wants me to leave my -12 there a couple of days or so. Looks like I'll be driving to NC and then dropping off my -12 when I return.

I'm still hoping this is a simple matter to fix and I have all the confidence in the world in the guys at Lockwood.

Any suggestions ... again?
 
Maybe you need to send it back in!

There is a possibility that your D-180 needs to be sent back to Dynon to be checked out. I had to send mine back to be checked out and it was broken per Dynon. I have also noticed by reading the RV12 form that at least 6 to 10 D-180s have be sent back to be checked out. As many problems as you are having with yours this may be the case. If lockwood has an extra D-180 available you could replace it with yours to see if it works correctly, if so then yours needs to be sent back in to be checked out. The problem is when the D-180s start to act up its hard to tell if its a probe problem or inside the D-180. Since you are having a lot of different things occurring sporadically Id bet its in the D-180 its self. Your D-180 has a 3 years warranty so they will fix it for free. Although it would be gone for probably 2 to 3 weeks. Good luck.;)
 
Jerry, you are fortunate to have people as knowledgeable and reputable as Lockwood's in your back door. As John recommended, if you could find a loaner D-180 somewhere it might be your answer. This might or might not be a hard thing to do. You could also benefit from using the VDO gauge and compare it to your readings from the Dynon. I sent the D180 to Dynon and within 3 days of receiving it, was turned around and is on it's way back. I was told that they could not reproduce the symptoms on the bench so a complete new board was installed, no questions asked. It will be interesting to see if other temperature related issues pop up. You might want to be on the lookout. I think the D180 is an excellent product, but it is very technical. Thankfully, Dynon has great customer service and an excellent warranty. All I need now is some Rogaine for the hair I pulled out!
 
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Intermittent Warnings on Dynon

As a man very close to taking the RV-12 plunge, I find this thread very disquieting. Successfully landing the airplane using simple "pitch and power" and your experience in the airplane ought to be readily do-able. But controlling the Rotax with its somewhat demanding operating parameters, would be more difficult. More importantly, responding to erroneous indications and warnings, could lead to precautionary landings, strandings in remote locations, and a great deal of unnecessary angst.

I'm wondering about some steam gauge backups on the right side............

Bob Bogash
 
Good connectors are a must...

With over 500 hours on our Dynon 180 I have determined that the most important consideration with virtually all of the spliced connections is using other than crimp style connectors. I have replaced all of the spliced connectors with blade style connectors from Omega engineering that use very good screw style wire hold downs on the conductors. I then carefully spot tie the connector to a solid surface to guarantee a stable mounting. The connectors cost about $2.oo each and that is nothing campared to the hassle of removing cowlings and silencing alarms. It's asking a lot of a Dynon to correct for bad connections and a splice application is not a good connection in this application; even when installed with very good crimping tools.


You are spending at least $65K on your RV-12's. Spend another $50. to get rid of all crimp splices and tab style wing wiring and you'll be much happier with your Dynon 180 and all electical connections and functions.

Jay Sluiter
N124CS
Albany, OR
 
Dont Sweat the details.

Bob welcome to the form. First let me assure you that the RV12 is a great ELSA kit. I checked your website and with your back ground I don't think you would have any problems if you decide to build with a RV12. I suggest you drive down to Vans Factory and take a Ride in their RV12 and check out the factory. You live in RV country. Now about the form, as with the internet in general you have to try to filter out fact from fiction. Here on the form you see a small microcosm of actual RV12 owners. There are around 150 flying RV12s and over 650 kits have been sold so far. Here on the form you hear from guys that are mostly having problems not from the more numerous ones flying every day without problems. Its like CNN you mostly only hear bad news not anything about all the great people in this country being successful every day. That being said this is an experiment airplane and just like Boeing things happen and need to be fixed. Any airplane even the simple RV12 is made up of many working parts that need to be maintained for a successful operation. I can say with over 200 hours in 18 months of flying this baby is easy to maintain compared to factory built and other kit planes. Go fly one and do your research and I think you will agree.;)
 
Hi Bob, as Jetguy said, welcome. I fully understand why at this point you feel the Rotax is "demanding". Rest assured the Rotax is a solid performer and it is also an engine that routinely runs to tbo. I will admit that the company has a different way of doing things and in that regard needs to get with the mainstream. Lockwood Aviation as well as several other shops handle the questions, service, training and warranty issues with the Rotax products and do an excellent job. Accept the fact that the 912 is just different, educate yourself on it as i know you will/have and I think you will be amazed. The 12 airframe/kit is imo, a stroke of genius. It is not perfect, but it is very good and you are dealing with a co. that is without a rival. Good luck if you pull the trigger on the 12! Also, the D180 is an excellent piece of equipment, you can have trouble with anything you buy. The difference is how the outcome is handled .
 
Intermittent Warnings on Dynon

Thanks, guys.

I did go down to Vans 3 weeks ago and flew a demo with Joe Blank. Flew another RV-12 on Saturday. I'm convinced - the RV-12 is IT for me, and the Skyview sensational. I'm hoping to be "on-board" within days.

But, (there's always that word), it's disconcerting if you get low oil pressure and high oil temp readings and warnings - that according to the POH - call for an Land ASAP situation (POH page 6-7.) I call this a non-benign warning in that it prudently calls for action - a semi-emergency landing. It's a warning hard to ignore, by just hitting the Silence button. It certainly gets your attention, raises your pulse rate, ruins your sightseeing and serenity. If it happens often enough, you turn it off and that's another problem.

My Boeing years have taught me about damnable "intermittent faults" that digital electronics produce in abundance and thrive upon. It's what happens when you live in the world of "0's" and "1's". Some, I can ignore. And some call for ACTION. I don't like those.

Bob
 
Disconcerting was one way of describing it. Red oil temp and CHt's along with lower oil pressure, yes it was time to land. Thankfully, I learned along time ago that calm rules the day. The prop was still spinning and the motor sounded fine and no smoke so things could have been much worse. As I have stated earlier, I thought that I had entered the Twilight Zone, I kept waiting to see Rod Serling!! I know some remember the Twilight Zone? Good luck with the 12, I am sure you will enjoy the build and the flying.
 
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