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  #1  
Old 02-02-2010, 07:56 AM
Dgamble's Avatar
Dgamble Dgamble is offline
 
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Default Sport Pilot CFI requirements

As I was looking though Part 61 this morning, I noticed that Flight Instructor with Sport Pilot Rating is separate and distinct from the "regular" instructor section. It contains the following requirements:

To be eligible for a flight instructor certificate with a sport pilot rating you must:

(a) Be at least 18 years old.

(b) Be able to read, speak, write, and understand English. If you cannot read, speak, write, and understand English because of medical reasons, the FAA may place limits on your certificate as are necessary for the safe operation of light-sport aircraft.

(c) Hold at least a sport pilot certificate with category and class ratings or privileges, as applicable, that are appropriate to the flight instructor privileges sought.

Unlike the "regular" CFI requirements, I see no requirement for a Commercial rating.

Am I misreading this, or is it actually possible to instruct an LSA student without getting a Commercial rating?

Follow-up question: if so, would it be possible to instruct an LSA student in a Van's E-LSA? Or is that likely to be precluded by a "no commercial operations" clause either in the FAA regs or the Operating Limitations?

At the end of the day, my question is simply this: can I legally teach my daughter to fly and get licensed as an LSA pilot in my airplane by attaining an LSA instructor rating without spending $5k or more to get a Commercial rating?
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Dave Gamble
Grove City, OH

RV-6 N466PG Purchased already flying - SOLD!

Built RV-12
http://www.schmetterlingaviation.com

The above web blogs and any links provided thereto are not instructional or advisory in nature. They merely seek to share my experiences in building and flying Van's RV airplanes.
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  #2  
Old 02-02-2010, 08:05 AM
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Mel Mel is offline
 
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Default

You are correct. Neither commercial nor instrument rating is required for sport-pilot instructor certificate.

However, you would not be able to use your E-LSA if you charge. To use an experimental aircraft for commercial instruction, you must have a "letter of deviation authority" (LODA) from the FSDO.
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Mel Asberry..DAR since last century
A&P/EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor/Nat'l Test Pilot School
Specializing in Amateur-Built and Light-Sport Aircraft
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
North Texas (8TA5)
RV-6 Flying since 1993, 172hp O-320, 3-Blade Catto (since 2003)
Legend Cub purchased 12/2017
FRIEND of the RV-1
Eagle's Nest Mentor
Recipient of Wright Brothers "Master Pilot" Award

Last edited by Mel : 02-02-2010 at 08:40 AM.
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  #3  
Old 02-02-2010, 08:22 AM
litewings litewings is offline
 
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The answer to your question is, Yes you can.
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Frank Cuba
Sport-Pilot CFI, Sport-Pilot Examiner
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  #4  
Old 02-02-2010, 08:28 AM
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InsideOut InsideOut is offline
 
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To receive instruction in an e-lsa, wouldn't it have to be the student/owner's? If it wasn't the student/owner's would it have to be an s-lsa?
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Rob Davis
Denver, CO
RV-12... here I come!
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  #5  
Old 02-02-2010, 08:54 AM
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Dgamble Dgamble is offline
 
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Hmm, so I can teach my daughter to fly. And, if I ever retired and wanted to open an "I will build your RV-12 AND teach you to fly it for one fixed-fee" shop, that would be perfectly OK.

Great, with daydreams like that to occupy me, I'll never get anything done at work!
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Dave Gamble
Grove City, OH

RV-6 N466PG Purchased already flying - SOLD!

Built RV-12
http://www.schmetterlingaviation.com

The above web blogs and any links provided thereto are not instructional or advisory in nature. They merely seek to share my experiences in building and flying Van's RV airplanes.
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  #6  
Old 02-02-2010, 10:04 AM
JDRhodes JDRhodes is offline
 
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Location: Taylorsville, GA
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So what additonal instruction is required to transiton from Sport Pilot to Private Pilot?

From a "conventional" CFI -
Night instruction
Hood time
Cross country dual

I know these things are not required to obtain a Sport certificate, but can a LSA CFI give this instruction to a Sport Pilot or Student in a LSA aircraft?

And if so, it seems all that would be left is a PPL checkride and written test.

What am I missng?
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  #7  
Old 02-02-2010, 11:02 AM
mcjon77 mcjon77 is offline
 
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Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDRhodes View Post
So what additonal instruction is required to transiton from Sport Pilot to Private Pilot?

From a "conventional" CFI -
Night instruction
Hood time
Cross country dual

I know these things are not required to obtain a Sport certificate, but can a LSA CFI give this instruction to a Sport Pilot or Student in a LSA aircraft?

And if so, it seems all that would be left is a PPL checkride and written test.

What am I missng?
No. In fact, if the CFI who gave you your sport pilot training was "only" a sport pilot CFI, and not a regular CFI, then NONE of the dual instruction counts toward your PPL. You would have to do the full 20 hours of dual instruction from a regular CFI.

If, however, your CFI was a regular CFI, then all of the dual instruction you received for your sport pilot ticket counts toward your private pilot ticket. In that case, assuming you only did the minimums for sport pilot, you would need 3 hours of night training, 3 hours of hood time, 2 hours of cross country training (you already had 1 hour of XC during SP), and 3 hours prep for your checkride.
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  #8  
Old 02-02-2010, 11:53 AM
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craigvince craigvince is offline
 
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Location: Stockton, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcjon77 View Post
No. In fact, if the CFI who gave you your sport pilot training was "only" a sport pilot CFI, and not a regular CFI, then NONE of the dual instruction counts toward your PPL. You would have to do the full 20 hours of dual instruction from a regular CFI.

If, however, your CFI was a regular CFI, then all of the dual instruction you received for your sport pilot ticket counts toward your private pilot ticket. In that case, assuming you only did the minimums for sport pilot, you would need 3 hours of night training, 3 hours of hood time, 2 hours of cross country training (you already had 1 hour of XC during SP), and 3 hours prep for your checkride.
This is not correct information. At our flight school we teach Sport Pilots and Private (and above) Pilots. We have both CFI-SPs and regular CFIs. We have confirmation from the FAA specifically on this issue. ALL of the Sport Pilot training counts towards Private Pilot training, regardless of the CFI. As long as the CFI endorses your logbook correctly by notating the tasks taught and accomplished.
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  #9  
Old 02-02-2010, 11:55 AM
JDRhodes JDRhodes is offline
 
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Location: Taylorsville, GA
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Who wrote these rules - the government?
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Jeff Rhodes - Taylorsville, GA
RV-9, 7 - going fast
BC-12D - going slow
jrhodes@v1salesmgt.com
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  #10  
Old 02-02-2010, 03:53 PM
mcjon77 mcjon77 is offline
 
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Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigvince View Post
This is not correct information. At our flight school we teach Sport Pilots and Private (and above) Pilots. We have both CFI-SPs and regular CFIs. We have confirmation from the FAA specifically on this issue. ALL of the Sport Pilot training counts towards Private Pilot training, regardless of the CFI. As long as the CFI endorses your logbook correctly by notating the tasks taught and accomplished.
Actually, it is correct information. A news organization pressed the FAA into interpeting the rule because there was confusion. On July 29, 2009 FAA made their position clear stating that, under the current rules, dual instruction received from a sport pilot CFI DOES NOT count toward the dual requirements for a PPL.

I will quote DIRECTLY from the letter FAA Chief Counsel sent. This is located in paragraph 2 of page 3, in this document:
Quote:
Section 61.109 sets forth the aeronautical experience requirements for the issuance of a private pilot certificate. That section specifies that the flight training required to be logged by an applicant for a private pilot certificate must be obtained from an "authorized instructor." As a flight instructor with a sport pilot rating is not permitted to provide training for a private pilot certificate with airplane, rotorcraft, glider, or lighter than air catagory ratings, the FAA would not consider such an instructor to be an "authorized instructor" for the purpose of providing flight training necessary to meat the aeronautical experience requirements for an issuance of a private pilot's certificate. FAA therefore does not permit flight training provided by such an instructor to be used to meet the flight training requirements specified in 61.109(a)-(h). (emphasis added)
Here is an article on the EAA website discussing this issue:http://www.eaa.org/news/2009/2009-08-13_debate.asp

The paragraph above is not my opinion. It is the position of FAA Chief Counsel. There was some confusion about this issue. Even to the point where different FSDOs interpreted things differently. However, now that FAA chief counsel has released their position this is the way things are, until the rule is changed.
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Was Building Sonex #1287
Probably starting an RV-14 project this summer.

Last edited by mcjon77 : 02-02-2010 at 06:19 PM.
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