Painting your plane?

I know in the car world, not everyone can do the whole job themselves. I dont look funny at anyone that cant. I do appreicate when someone can step back and say I did eveything on this one. So based on my lurking and reading, the aircraft builders here are no different. I want to refrain from saying "kit builders" cause to me it takes away from the true effort, skill, dedication and work you all really do put into your planes.

How many of you have shot your own paint, and what did you use?
Did you use any polyester filler primers before paint? And did you use basically the current brands of automotive paints?

This other question is about manufactured aircraft, is there anything in the Far's that prohibit and owner from painting his own aircraft? Beyond dissasembly I can understand where an AP mechanic is needed. Just like preflight, if a required instrument is non functional, and is going to be removed, an ap mechanic must perform that work.

Thanks all, great site.

Ken Herchuck said:

I...Did you use any polyester filler primers before paint?...

Click to expand...

You don't want to use polyester filler (bondo) on airplanes. The correct stuff to use is Aerodynamic Dent Filler. This stuff expands and contracts at the same rate as the aluminum, will not shrink, and/or pop off with age.

I've done a few airplanes but I am an amateur. Here are a few tips based on my experience.
Surface prep. If you use acid etch do so sparingly using a wet scuffing pad rather than flooding the surface. You don't want the acid to get into seams where it won't be neutralized. This is future corrosion. After the acid apply alodyne and then flood rinse. I have also been successful using detergent and scuff pad (no acid or alodyne) and putting epoxy primer directly after this prep.

Primer. I use an epoxy primer, light coat. Then I use a urethane primer which can be sanded. Do body work over the epoxy to protect the metal.

The easiest is a urethane base coat/clear coat system. I am using Sherwin Williams Acry Glo but a good automotive system will be fine. It is best to have a locally available paint. Shipping costs are high and you will need more than you think.Some argue that the clear coat adds weight but I say the weight is gold. You can repair your colors before you clear. If the clear comes out badly in spots, sand and recoat an area or color sand and buff. Lots of options. This is what the auto shops use and easy to get help and answers.

Hope this helps.

Ken

Have to disagree on the filler

I've known numerous RV's filled with Evercoat Rage gold..Never seen a crack myself.

Shot my own paint. Used harbor freight HVLP spray guns that give superb results. Used their gravity fed gun ($14) to shoot the primer. (used 45psi at the gun not 28 for improved finish.

Used plain old vinnegar to acid etch the surface.

Used Valspar Polyeurathane. Never painted before..Had a guy show me the ropes..Came out great.

Gun setup is crucial,,see www.hotrodders.com for instructions on the spray pattern..print it out and compare the pattern with what you printed.

Gun speed will be surprisingly slow across the surface. Take time to rig as many surfaces as you can horizontally as less risk of runs...Rig things so they can be flipped over..paint a coat on the top paint, flip, coat on the bottom, flip coat on the top, flip and leave to dry upside down..and dust will end up on the underside of surfaces that way.

I used one coat on the bottom surfaces, two coats on top.

Make sure you have an oil free air supply (I used an oil free compressor) and new lines (cheap from HF) if there is ANY risk they may have been contaminated..like used with an oily compressor.

Enjoy

Frank

I just completed a black car, 32 Ford Austrailian Ute, did all the bodywork, mechanical the works.

Used a TP Tools Paint Turbine. BASF Limco Synthetic Enamel. 1.2 for Primer and 1.4 tip for paint. Came out not bad. Did wetsanding and buffing before so I got that part. Used slick sand as my base before primer. Had to wet sand it with 320 before primer but was worth the extra effort.

The old, follow the directions, even on wait time between coats. Thats the hard part for me. It was two light coats 5 mins apart, then one heavy. I did a little different, 3 lights and one heavy. If you let it set right, worked fine. Had to use slowest reducer with turbine though.

You can do it if you want to.

You know, the primary reason to build your own airplane for most of us is education. And enjoyment. I know that some just want the airplane, I've always wondered why they don't just buy a used one. At any rate.

Painting is one of those things that CAN be done by mere mortals as long as you can commit to the details. There is NO, ONE way to do it. Lots of different approaches will work, although there certainly are some things that would be considered right or less right.

I painted my RV-9A successfully and I am currently painting my RV-8 (we'll see how that goes) so I have some basis for discussion.

First here's the approach that I've taken.

On the -9
Prepped fiberglass with UV smooth prime and glazing putty.
Scuffed the aluminum with red scotchbrite and soap and water.
Cleaned with alcohol until REALLY REALLY clean.
Shot PPG Omni epoxy primer.
Shot color with PPG DCC (concept) single stage urethane.
I trimmed (stripes, N-numbers, etc...) with Vinyl.

This overall worked very well. It was manageable and the DCC is quite easy to fix mistakes in. YOU WILL HAVE MISTAKES. I color sanded and buffed the whole airplane since it was a dark color and I had inevitable orange peel.

On the -8
Much more ambitious scheme. Much more trim. Metallic silver in addition to solid colors.
Used glazing putty and PPG K36 primer on the glass. Works fine.
Primed with PPG DPLF epoxy.
Shooting PPG DBC base coat over the epoxy.
Shooting PPG 2002 clear over the base.

This is a more complicated system but I prefer it. Its probably mandatory in order to have a chance with the metallic. The base clear is also a snap for shooting the trim colors. All done in the base then clear over the top. The base clear MAY (hard to say) be a bit more expensive. BUT, its prettier! Nice deep shine.

Some basic suggestions.
Do minimal body work on the aluminum. Its really hard to fill a spot and have it look better than not filling it at all.
Buy a good gun. An amateur needs every break you can get.
Find someone whose done it and talk a bunch, and watch them if you can.

GOOD LUCK

Ken Herchuck said:

I know in the car world, not everyone can do the whole job themselves. I dont look funny at anyone that cant. I do appreicate when someone can step back and say I did eveything on this one. So based on my lurking and reading, the aircraft builders here are no different. I want to refrain from saying "kit builders" cause to me it takes away from the true effort, skill, dedication and work you all really do put into your planes.

How many of you have shot your own paint, and what did you use?
Did you use any polyester filler primers before paint? And did you use basically the current brands of automotive paints?

This other question is about manufactured aircraft, is there anything in the Far's that prohibit and owner from painting his own aircraft? Beyond dissasembly I can understand where an AP mechanic is needed. Just like preflight, if a required instrument is non functional, and is going to be removed, an ap mechanic must perform that work.

Thanks all, great site.

Click to expand...

Buy a good gun?

My painting coach threw (literally) a gun at me and said.."This is the best gun I own"..Wayne this is from Harbor Freight"...Yup its still the best gun i own...And he had a lot of spray guns on his shelf.

Those HF HVLP guns really are very good..amzingly!

Frank

N941WR said:

You don't want to use polyester filler (bondo) on airplanes. The correct stuff to use is Aerodynamic Dent Filler. This stuff expands and contracts at the same rate as the aluminum, will not shrink, and/or pop off with age.

Click to expand...

Not speaking of bondo, filler primers are thicker than regular primers, you spray them on the substrait to even out imperfections, or in some cases as a sealer before applying paint.

Well I can lend some orange peel advice. Nothing is ever easy or quick. But as we all can agree, the foundation of the paint is as straight a body as you can get. Take time and read instructions on your specific product. Eurathane is dangerous, use proper protection when using it, respirators (fresh air better), gloves, tyvek suit etc.

A good paint job is also alot of sanding, prep sanding, the primer, in some cases 400 a base coat to apply more paint.

When the paint is on and cured, I waited a month before trying to do the next step, Colorsanding.

Using 1200, 1500 then 2000 grit sandpaper, with soapy water and one of the soft sanding pads sold, gently one direction motion wet sand the orange peel.

Wipe the area and let it dry after each level of wet sand. This will expose the amount of orange peel left. Now on clear coats make sure you have a goodly amount to do this too. Slow and steady wins the race.

When I have taken the 1200 scratches out with the 1500, and the 1500 sanding scratches out with the 2000, the compounds come in.

Get a good electric buffer, one that looks like a grinder. Not the orbital ones you get in sharper image. Use a yellow wool, white wool and black foam pads. I like 3M products. I start with regular Compound, with the yellow wool, then to Fine cut compount, with the white wool, then my favorite, dark swirl remover, with the black foam pad. Each successive compound removes the sanding marks from each process. The dark swirl is the super on the final step.

Always clean your pads, or just buy a few more and keep the surface from more dirt getting grinded in.

You can always practice on test pcs, but its really not to hard. I have yet to burn through paint, but I have wet sanded edges that didnt have enough paint. Dont be afraid to put it on.

dedgemon said:

You know, the primary reason to build your own airplane for most of us is education. And enjoyment. I know that some just want the airplane, I've always wondered why they don't just buy a used one. At any rate.

Painting is one of those things that CAN be done by mere mortals as long as you can commit to the details. There is NO, ONE way to do it. Lots of different approaches will work, although there certainly are some things that would be considered right or less right.

I painted my RV-9A successfully and I am currently painting my RV-8 (we'll see how that goes) so I have some basis for discussion.

First here's the approach that I've taken.

On the -9
Prepped fiberglass with UV smooth prime and glazing putty.
Scuffed the aluminum with red scotchbrite and soap and water.
Cleaned with alcohol until REALLY REALLY clean.
Shot PPG Omni epoxy primer.
Shot color with PPG DCC (concept) single stage urethane.
I trimmed (stripes, N-numbers, etc...) with Vinyl.

This overall worked very well. It was manageable and the DCC is quite easy to fix mistakes in. YOU WILL HAVE MISTAKES. I color sanded and buffed the whole airplane since it was a dark color and I had inevitable orange peel.

On the -8
Much more ambitious scheme. Much more trim. Metallic silver in addition to solid colors.
Used glazing putty and PPG K36 primer on the glass. Works fine.
Primed with PPG DPLF epoxy.
Shooting PPG DBC base coat over the epoxy.
Shooting PPG 2002 clear over the base.

This is a more complicated system but I prefer it. Its probably mandatory in order to have a chance with the metallic. The base clear is also a snap for shooting the trim colors. All done in the base then clear over the top. The base clear MAY (hard to say) be a bit more expensive. BUT, its prettier! Nice deep shine.

Some basic suggestions.
Do minimal body work on the aluminum. Its really hard to fill a spot and have it look better than not filling it at all.
Buy a good gun. An amateur needs every break you can get.
Find someone whose done it and talk a bunch, and watch them if you can.

GOOD LUCK

Click to expand...

Depends on the use

Frank,
I've been using one of those $20 Harbor Freight guns for several years.... to shoot self-etching primer... you know... ACID.

Actually they vary a lot. I've got a good one(relatively) but a buddy has one thats not good enough to wash the dog with. Lots of variability when there's no quality control.

But even the good one is just completely inadequate to shoot clears and topcoats.

I guess it just depends on the standard you shooting for.

As I said, there are LOTS of ways that people find to successfully paint. My approach is just that, my approach. Its pretty typical of automotive paint procedures, but there still is lots of variation among painters.

frankh said:

My painting coach threw (literally) a gun at me and said.."This is the best gun I own"..Wayne this is from Harbor Freight"...Yup its still the best gun i own...And he had a lot of spray guns on his shelf.

Those HF HVLP guns really are very good..amzingly!

Frank

Click to expand...

I guess it depends on what was on his shelf

Wait up!

That is what I am saying HF sell two types of gun..The $20 GRAVITY FEED gun is NOT an HVLP.

The HVLP has "HVLP" stamped on the side of the handle and it sells for closer to $60. (actually just recently they started selling the mini gun and the full size gun as a package at a discount).

So far I have not heard of a bad one (HVLP) and all of those guns were excellent.

As to my painting coach..oh believe me this guy has been painting for 20 years (does soem wonderful work) and has guns in the $400 range..But he still swears by the HF guns.

And so do I..At least so far I do..

Frank

One more vote for the HF purple seudo HVLP gun. That baby works like a charm!

Harbor Freight sprayer ????

I looked the sprayers up on Harbor Freight. Is there some place where you can buy different sizes of tips? I didn't see anything on their web site. Thanks!

HF sprayer tips

I honestly never bought different sized tips for HF HVLP guns, but to be honest I never found a need for them either.

I THINK the Gravity feed gun (not the HVLP) must have a bigger tip because it seemed very happy to spray the thicker primer I was using...I would never use this un to spray top coat or clear coat with this gun though...The HF HVLP will do finsh coats very well however.

Frank

Whatever works

Really...
If I had 20 years experience I could probably spray it with a pump up weed killer sprayer and no compressor.

I just like to hedge my bets since I don't paint every day. That's all I'm saying.

The $20 HB gravity feed (purple one) is the one I've used for self-etching and they seem to be pretty variable in quality. The other gun I've got no experience with.

The primary point of my first post; however, was that this is NOT magic. Ordinary builders can paint with good results if they're will to study and not be intimidated by the process.

I kind of like the thought of spending $2000 for a paint job (materials) instead of $10000.

frankh said:

That is what I am saying HF sell two types of gun..The $20 GRAVITY FEED gun is NOT an HVLP.

The HVLP has "HVLP" stamped on the side of the handle and it sells for closer to $60. (actually just recently they started selling the mini gun and the full size gun as a package at a discount).

So far I have not heard of a bad one (HVLP) and all of those guns were excellent.

As to my painting coach..oh believe me this guy has been painting for 20 years (does soem wonderful work) and has guns in the $400 range..But he still swears by the HF guns.

And so do I..At least so far I do..

Frank

Click to expand...

I painted my RV-6A with Imron 10 years ago (single stage) - no previous painting experience. Didn't care for the way it (didn't) cover rivet edges. For my RV-10 (this year) I used single stage (as opposed to base/clear) PPG Concept (DCC) over Epoxy Primer (DPLF) over acid etch and alodyne. I was much happier with the PPG than with the Imron. PPG provided good, consistent phone tech support, reasonably knowledgeable local sales folks, excellent technical documentation.

You can't sand (repair) a urethane top coat (a run, for example) and get the same gloss that unsanded areas have, but repair areas can be shot with clear coat and Blend-Ease to blend in reasonably well with the rest of the coat.

I used a Finish Line HVLP gun from an on-line store. Worked great. I ended up using the 1.3 and 1.5 tips (top coat and primer, respectively).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really...
If I had 20 years experience I could probably spray it with a pump up weed killer sprayer and no compressor.

I just like to hedge my bets since I don't paint every day. That's all I'm saying.

The $20 HB gravity feed (purple one) is the one I've used for self-etching and they seem to be pretty variable in quality. The other gun I've got no experience with.

The primary point of my first post; however, was that this is NOT magic. Ordinary builders can paint with good results if they're will to study and not be intimidated by the process.

I kind of like the thought of spending $2000 for a paint job (materials) instead of $10000.

Click to expand...

Very funny!!

I have been painting since I was 16, now just turned 43, and by far the best way to tell you is that the painter is about 85% (maybe more) and the gun is the rest. I can tell a good gun by the way it sprays and sounds. I don't care what it costs as long as it sprays good. Those who spray for a living can listen to a gun while spraying and tell if it is a good one or not. I personally spray with a SATA 3000 on all my jobs and I do spray nearly every day. I think proper setup and technique (practice) is the key to a great paint job. That is after proper prep work. There are many tricks of the trade and don't mind with assistance.

One more thought....There are some sprayguns that are more affordable that spray certain materials very well regardless of cost. Some of the cheaper spray outfits may spray out of the box well and buy the same one again and completely different results. Heavier materials need more tip size or more air but then you may have problems with haze, orange peel or both. Myself if I were having a concern with texture I would change tatics immediately. Not much that you can do with the material (final color) itself without affecting the outcome.

Lots of information

I painted my plane with the assistance of a custom painter. I was fortunate to have access to $1000 guns with a variety of tips, gun cleaning cabinet, computer mixing, positive pressure paint booth with incredible lighting and all of the best supplies. I'd be reluctant to do it without a good booth set up.

I painted all of the interior parts with the Harbor Freight gun. I works fine but after you use a really good gun with the right tips you can see and feel the difference.

I had one of their guys squirt most of the clear. This takes real technique.

In total, I have less than 2K in the paint job. This is a four color PPG base/clear job.

Several tips: Preparation, lighting, proper equipment.