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  #11  
Old 04-21-2008, 04:37 PM
InsideOut's Avatar
InsideOut InsideOut is offline
 
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Location: Denver, CO
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That's nice of you Jim, thanks! For the moment, we're living vicariously through your experience...
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  #12  
Old 04-21-2008, 06:19 PM
RGaines RGaines is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Novato, CA
Posts: 151
Default Thanks

Jim,

Thanks so much for the feedback to us future builders. I called Van's this am to see if they have an idea about shipping. They said a week or two. Won't be long now.

That is a very clever close quarters rivet tool.

Richard
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  #13  
Old 05-06-2008, 07:54 PM
RGaines RGaines is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Novato, CA
Posts: 151
Default Another Question for Jim Cone

Completed the wing spars today. After following the all the instructions and the rivet pattern in the last figure on the last page (wing spar) there are still some spaces that do not have rivets on the spar web. It looks like they should be there but there are no instructions to do so and the final drawing of the rivet pattern doesn't show it either.

Am I missing something? I called van's with the question and the guy said that had not seen the drawings yet, but had not heard of any problems from Jim.

Rich
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  #14  
Old 05-07-2008, 01:05 AM
jamescone jamescone is offline
 
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Location: Sequim, WA
Posts: 233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGaines View Post
Completed the wing spars today. After following the all the instructions and the rivet pattern in the last figure on the last page (wing spar) there are still some spaces that do not have rivets on the spar web. It looks like they should be there but there are no instructions to do so and the final drawing of the rivet pattern doesn't show it either.

Am I missing something? I called van's with the question and the guy said that had not seen the drawings yet, but had not heard of any problems from Jim.

Rich
Those holes are for the ribs that are riveted directly to the spar and not to the spar flanges that you riveted on the outboard section. I have found only a couple of minor glitches with the plans and the kit and they have already been addressed by Van's. I'm sure that you will get an update soon with the changes. One example is that the hole for the tie downs shows to drill to 3/16" and it should be 3/8". It is only a very few things like this that I have found. It is a great kit. It is very easy to build, nothing like a slow build RV of old. By the way, I posted more pictures today. The link is: http://picasaweb.google.com/JimCone1...nstruction5608

Since I seem to have the only plans to answer questions, fire away and I will do my best to answer them.
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  #15  
Old 05-07-2008, 01:24 AM
RGaines RGaines is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Novato, CA
Posts: 151
Default Spar rivets

Jim,

Thanks. That helps a lot. My drawing did show that the tie down was a 3/8 so it must have been fixed before I got it.

When I cut the forward ribs there are parts of the tabs that must be cut (on the nose and back) of some. What tool do you use to make those cuts. The ones on the nose look very tight and I can't tell what to use. I don't have a metal bandsaw but if I did, I don't think it would fit.

Also in your new pictures, you mention priming some or part of the parts. What are you priming and how do you decide what do prime?

Another issue for me is the countersinking the flange of the stub spars. I have never done it so I may be going about it wrong. We machine countersink the flange but don't dimple the wing skin. I guess this pulls the skins into a bit of a dipple? My countersinking with a cage is very inconsistent. Is there a good technique for beginners to use.

Your help is much appreciated by me and all the other builders.

Rich

Last edited by RGaines : 05-07-2008 at 04:30 PM.
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  #16  
Old 05-07-2008, 06:27 PM
jamescone jamescone is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sequim, WA
Posts: 233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGaines View Post
Jim,

Thanks. That helps a lot. My drawing did show that the tie down was a 3/8 so it must have been fixed before I got it.

When I cut the forward ribs there are parts of the tabs that must be cut (on the nose and back) of some. What tool do you use to make those cuts. The ones on the nose look very tight and I can't tell what to use. I don't have a metal bandsaw but if I did, I don't think it would fit.

Also in your new pictures, you mention priming some or part of the parts. What are you priming and how do you decide what do prime?

Another issue for me is the countersinking the flange of the stub spars. I have never done it so I may be going about it wrong. We machine countersink the flange but don't dimple the wing skin. I guess this pulls the skins into a bit of a dipple? My countersinking with a cage is very inconsistent. Is there a good technique for beginners to use.

Your help is much appreciated by me and all the other builders.

Rich
Use left and right aviation tin snips. You will easily figure out which to use on which tab, because the snip gets in the way if you try to use the wrong one.

I only prime where flanges will be riveted to a spar or skin. You also have to prime the part on the flaperons that you make because they are not alclad.

The idea of the coutersink is to only remove enough material so that a rivet will sit flush when inserted in the hole. You need to adjust your cage so that when you push down on the collar, the pin and the cutter extend just far enough to do that. Look at a rivet from the side and then look at your countersink from the side with the collar retracted. The rivet and the cutter should look the same. Be sure to lock the collar after you make the adjustment. Each tooth on the adjustment collar is 1/2 of a thousandth of an inch. Start with the cutter at a shallow depth and make a cut. Then readjust a bit at a time and re-cut the same hole. When a rivet just sits in the hole with the head flush with the material, lock the collar. The skins are dimpled at the factory, except for three holes near the inboard edge that you dimple. Those dimples fit into the coutersunk holes. Hope this helps.
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  #17  
Old 05-08-2008, 07:30 AM
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RudiGreyling RudiGreyling is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamescone View Post
<SNIP>
I only prime where flanges will be riveted to a spar or skin.
<SNIP>
Jim, Thanks, I am interested in your thinking, not wanting to start a priming war, just YOUR reasoning.

Why only the flaperons? I did not see mention of priming the wing rib flanges and corrosponding surface on the inside of the wing skins? YOUR reasoning, or did I miss it?

Thanx,
Rudi.
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  #18  
Old 05-08-2008, 08:04 AM
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Bartsey Bartsey is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Naples, FL
Posts: 31
Default Riveting in close spaces

If you want to see a presentation by the EAA on how to get a pop rivet in to a tight spot go to:
http://www.eaa.org/video/homebuilder...oId=1531191588
Seems like the technique they present may be better than getting a rivet gun that operates in close quarters.
I also made a presentation last night at our local EAA chapter part of which was about building the RV-12. I mentioned the kit was inbound and that Avery Tools sells a tool kit for building the RV-12 for $1,300-ish dollars. The reponse was, as I read off some items, "I've got those, you can borrow it/them", and, "What we don't have, you can get at Harbour Tools". It sounded like nearly every tool I need is abailable from members of the chapter so I think I will accept their good offer. Worth checking with your local EAA chapter, if you are in one, or could be a good reason to join one.
Bart
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  #19  
Old 05-09-2008, 01:34 AM
jamescone jamescone is offline
 
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Location: Sequim, WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RudiGreyling View Post
Jim, Thanks, I am interested in your thinking, not wanting to start a priming war, just YOUR reasoning.

Why only the flaperons? I did not see mention of priming the wing rib flanges and corrosponding surface on the inside of the wing skins? YOUR reasoning, or did I miss it?

Thanx,
Rudi.

I did prime the flanges in the wing.

I know that it will take some time, but read the posts that I have made and you will see every step of the way, some building tips, and comments about priming. You will also see the pictures of my construction. The pictures on imageshack are not very good so don't bother with them. I have re-posted all of them on the Picasa site. There, you will see a tool that I made to pop rivets in tight places that is a better solution than the one shown on the EAA builders tips video, in my opinion.
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  #20  
Old 05-13-2008, 09:20 PM
jte65 jte65 is offline
 
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Location: Avon, Indiana
Posts: 341
Default Edge rolling needed?

Jim- have you found it necessary to use an edge roller to achieve good lap joints on the wing skins?
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