Jim Cooper
I'm New Here
I'm looking for a good shop to build an RV-14. If you've had any RV built by one of the shops out there, I'd appreciate a recommendation.
Van's Air Force
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Recommend a Build Shop
- Thread starter Jim Cooper
- Start date
As mentioned, you can't (legally) just pay somebody to build you an aircraft. For a builder-assist program, check out Jesse Saint and Saint Aviation in Dunnellin, FL. He runs a very reputable and experienced shop that could probably help you with a build while staying within the rules.
saintaviation.com
saintaviation.com
Ed_Wischmeyer
Well Known Member
Actually, having somebody build you an airplane is 100% legal. The possible violation is if the owner tries to register such an airplane as Experimental, Amateur Built. That airplane would more appropriately be licensed Experimental, Exhibition.
But having a plane built by a shop isn't the whole the story. The owner will still want to have the plane maintained, so build documentation (list of components, wiring diagrams, etc) will be important going forward.
KatanaPilot
Well Known Member
Synergy Air South
I built my RV-7A with Synergy Air out in Eugene.
I was so impressed with Synergy, I helped them open Synergy Air South in 2018 in Newnan, GA (KCCO) - suburb of Atlanta. I'm no longer involved as an owner, but I am a very happy customer now building an RV-10.
An RV-14 was just completed and there are two more under construction right now. Plus 4 or 5 RV-10s, an RV-7A and an RV-8.
If you are willing to put in the work, you should check them out. They are not a build shop, but builder assist.
http://synergyair.com/
I built my RV-7A with Synergy Air out in Eugene.
I was so impressed with Synergy, I helped them open Synergy Air South in 2018 in Newnan, GA (KCCO) - suburb of Atlanta. I'm no longer involved as an owner, but I am a very happy customer now building an RV-10.
An RV-14 was just completed and there are two more under construction right now. Plus 4 or 5 RV-10s, an RV-7A and an RV-8.
If you are willing to put in the work, you should check them out. They are not a build shop, but builder assist.
http://synergyair.com/
DanNiendorff
Well Known Member
I think it is legal to pay someone to build your RV...... but only in Canada. Definitely not so in the US.
rocketman1988
Well Known Member
...and
...and licensing in experimental exhibition also may come with some onerous restrictions...
...and licensing in experimental exhibition also may come with some onerous restrictions...
bruceh
Well Known Member
Hypothetical scenario for discussion purposes here only:
I buy the RV-14 kits and assemble the entire airplane, then get the Airworthiness Certificate. All above board, since I am doing this for my own recreational and educational purposes. I immediately put the airplane up for sale for my cost + a reasonable markup, since the value of a flying/airworthy airplane is much more than just the kits/parts/labor.
I might even ask the potential buyer(s) what sort of accessories/avionics would "sweeten" the deal. No money changes hands until the airplane is registered and flying. I don't see anything illegal about my personal situation changing so that I no longer want/need the new RV-14.
And NO, I don't want to do this, Mr. FAA.
I buy the RV-14 kits and assemble the entire airplane, then get the Airworthiness Certificate. All above board, since I am doing this for my own recreational and educational purposes. I immediately put the airplane up for sale for my cost + a reasonable markup, since the value of a flying/airworthy airplane is much more than just the kits/parts/labor.
I might even ask the potential buyer(s) what sort of accessories/avionics would "sweeten" the deal. No money changes hands until the airplane is registered and flying. I don't see anything illegal about my personal situation changing so that I no longer want/need the new RV-14.
And NO, I don't want to do this, Mr. FAA.
N941WR
Legacy Member
Bob Kuykendall
Well Known Member
Fair enough.
When the market is right, that often works. After you account for business expenses and opportunity costs, the value of the labor sometimes even approaches minimum wage.
My take is that such activity is technically against the spirit but not the letter of the rules that allow amateur-built experimental aircraft to share US airspace. But there have been many such serial builders, and so far the FAA has turned a blind eye. And unless we make it a problem for them, they probably won't make it a problem for us.
--Bob K.
rocketman1988
Well Known Member
Enemies
Sometimes we are our own worst enemies...
People want to forego the intent of the rules, next thing you know, we won't be able to build at all...
Sometimes we are our own worst enemies...
People want to forego the intent of the rules, next thing you know, we won't be able to build at all...
Ralph Inkster
Well Known Member
You can get builder assist in Canada as long as you are directly in control or supervising the build, you have to declare how much 'professional' help you received at Final Inspection time performed by MD-RA & noted in Transport Canada's file on that plane, so would be very difficult to import that plane to the US as... TC talks to FAA.
A nice thing for amateur builts in Canada (even imported ones) is that the 'owner' (be it the owner builder, build assist client, or later purchaser of the plane) can sign off on all maintenance, including Annual Inspections in Canada. Signing authority can be a bad thing too, if the owner doesn't have the knowledge or skills to properly perform those functions.
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DanNiendorff
Well Known Member
My best guess is as long as your intent was your own recreation and education, building and then selling would be OK. If your intent was to make income on the deal, I think it would not pass inspection. But this is just my own interpretation, and I?m sure there are others......
IMHO this is exactly the FAA's interpretation. Since what is at issue is builder's "intent", this is often difficult to prove/disprove in a court. But I can tell, it's easy:
(1) The builder who is in it for recreation or education builds an RV, then a Rans, then a Glasair, then... because of a lot of the recreation/education is in figuring out how to actually build the different designs. It takes time, though, and any profit/hour is very low.
(2) The builder who is in it for money builds the same exact model, 5 times, because after the first one or two his build times go down dramatically, and his profit/hour goes up.
David Paule
Well Known Member
Wish that was the case for an RV-3B.
But it might be for an RV-14, which is what the OP was referring to. Still, this isn't an area where a blanket approach is necessarily correct.
Dave
RV-3B under construction, and already have more into it than I could possible get out of it when it's flying.
Same rule in the US. You can have 100% commercial assistance, as long as the builder is present/involved for at least 51% of that assistance (that would be 100% for QB kits). Not sure why there would be a problem transferring a plane that was built under similar rules as the FAA's.
Larry
Red Voodoo
Well Known Member
To get back to the OP's original question, I will second the recommendation of Synergy Air South. I have seen their work first-hand, and can confirm that it is done to the highest standards. Plus, Interstate 75 will get you to within an hour of Newnan GA. Again, this assumes you're looking for a build ASSIST shop (and where's the fun in having someone else do all the work?).
Sam Buchanan
been here awhile
The first year I took my new RV-6 to Sun_N_Fun (2000?) someone walked up to me and asked "How much would you charge to build me a RV-6?".
As a coy way of saying I wasn't interested at any price I replied "You can't afford me".
The man answered "You don't understand...I can afford you".
It's all a matter of perspective (and zeros)...what is very, very expensive to some isn't to others.
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The first year I took my new RV-6 to Sun_N_Fun (2000?) someone walked up to me and asked "How much would you charge to build me a RV-6?".
As a coy way of saying I wasn't interested at any price I replied "You can't afford me".
The man answered "You don't understand...I can afford you".
It's all a matter of perspective (and zeros)...what is very, very expensive to some isn't to others.
Touche'.
The first year I took my new RV-6 to Sun_N_Fun (2000?) someone walked up to me and asked "How much would you charge to build me a RV-6?".
As a coy way of saying I wasn't interested at any price I replied "You can't afford me".
The man answered "You don't understand...I can afford you".
It's all a matter of perspective (and zeros)...what is very, very expensive to some isn't to others.
I don't get it. If he can afford it and he liked your work, why doesn't he just buy yours? Or one of the many really nice ones out there that come up for sale all the time? Is it a matter of customization? Because if he can afford it, then surely there's something out there that could fit his mission with a modest upgrade. Is it a custom paint job he's after? Money answers that question too. What could he be after other than his name on a plate by having you build it for him??? Doesn't make sense.
Sam Buchanan
been here awhile
My new RV-6 definitely wasn't for sale.
In 2000 there were very few nice RVs for sale because the incredible RV population explosion was yet to occur and plentiful used RVs didn't hit the market until a some years later as repeat offenders became more common. There probably weren't more than 20-30 RVs at Sun-N-Fun in 2000....compare that to the hundreds that show up at OSH these days. Man.....I'm dating myself......
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The first year I took my new RV-6 to Sun_N_Fun (2000?) someone walked up to me and asked "How much would you charge to build me a RV-6?".
As a coy way of saying I wasn't interested at any price I replied "You can't afford me".
The man answered "You don't understand...I can afford you".
It's all a matter of perspective (and zeros)...what is very, very expensive to some isn't to others.
At that point you should have simply told him how many millions of $$ you would need.
Sam Buchanan
been here awhile
Certainly. And it happens.
KatanaPilot
Well Known Member
Assuming the builder is willing to sell AND to accept the liability of being the manufacturer of the airplane, then sure.
Some of us don't want to do that, myself included. I will give the RV-7 to my son when the RV-10 is done as well as the RV-10 when I can no longer fly. Not worried about him suing me.
